Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 4:41 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Guys



I am prepared to glue today the doors halves, and just realised that Aircraft Spruce didn't send me the Cab-o-Sil I had ordered last week.

I do have Cotton Fiber at hand, so my question is:

Can I use Cotton Fiber to thicken the gluing resin, instead of Cab-o-Sil?



Thanks

Carlos



Enviado do meu iPhone

Kelly McMullen

Joined: 16 Apr 2008
Posts: 1188
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 5:21 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

I'm no expert, but I wouldn't do it. The cabosil is much lighter, mixes more easily (but wear a mask...dust everywhere).



-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

 

 Guys

 

 I am prepared to glue today the doors halves, and just realised that Aircraft Spruce didn't send me the Cab-o-Sil I had ordered last week.

 I do have Cotton Fiber at hand, so my question is:

 Can I use Cotton Fiber to thicken the gluing resin, instead of Cab-o-Sil?

 

 Thanks

 Carlos

 

 Enviado do meu iPhone

 

 ====================================

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor
KCHD

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:00 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Cab-o-sil ash no strength at all.  But it does thicken up the epoxy.  

I did a mixture of cotton flox and Cab-o-Sil for this application.  Worked well.

Carl



On Mar 8, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm no expert, but I wouldn't do it. The cabosil is much lighter, mixes more easily (but wear a mask...dust everywhere).



-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

 

 Guys

 

 I am prepared to glue today the doors halves, and just realised that Aircraft Spruce didn't send me the Cab-o-Sil I had ordered last week.

 I do have Cotton Fiber at hand, so my question is:

 Can I use Cotton Fiber to thicken the gluing resin, instead of Cab-o-Sil?

 

 Thanks

 Carlos

 

 Enviado do meu iPhone

 

 ====================================

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:21 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

I don't really see an issue with it, as long as the mixture isn't mixed so much in favor of Fiber that it becomes dry and unable to flow into the pores of the two halves.



Before I slathered it on, I'd use a small roller to roll-on a thin layer of resin only.  Just to be sure that it's given a chance to work into the pores.   Then I'd smear on the mixture.  It might help bring a bit more rigidity to the doors, which could be a good thing or a bad thing...  (Not sure.  But there are always trade offs)

In the big picture though, I don't see a problem with it as long as you've rolled on a coat of resin to get down into the surface.

Phil

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 8:00 AM, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net (carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  

Cab-o-sil ash no strength at all.  But it does thicken up the epoxy.  

I did a mixture of cotton flox and Cab-o-Sil for this application.  Worked well.

Carl



On Mar 8, 2017, at 8:21 AM, Kelly McMullen <apilot2(at)gmail.com (apilot2(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I'm no expert, but I wouldn't do it. The cabosil is much lighter, mixes more easily (but wear a mask..dust everywhere).



-sent from the I-droid implanted in my forearm

 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 5:35 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

 

 Guys

 

 I am prepared to glue today the doors halves, and just realised that Aircraft Spruce didn't send me the Cab-o-Sil I had ordered last week.

 I do have Cotton Fiber at hand, so my question is:

 Can I use Cotton Fiber to thicken the gluing resin, instead of Cab-o-Sil?

 

 Thanks

 Carlos

 

 Enviado do meu iPhone

 

 ===========

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

Dave Saylor

Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 209
Location: GILROY, CA

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 6:43 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Carlos,



Substituting cotton for Cab-o-sil to glue the door halves together would create a strong structure, but I can think of a few possible issues:

Cotton will be heavier.

Since the door is so highly curved, some resin will run out of the bond just due to gravity.  Cab helps prevent that.  So would a fast-curing resin and heat, but you'll have less working time 

The door may end up "thicker" since the cotton layer between the skins will be thicker than a resin/cab mixture.

If your layer of cotton isn't extremely uniform, you may end up with voids.

I think I just talked myself out of it!  I'd hold off until you can get some cabosil.

--Dave

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 4:35 AM, Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Carlos Trigo <trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt (trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt)>

 

 Guys

 

 I am prepared to glue today the doors halves, and just realised that Aircraft Spruce didn't send me the Cab-o-Sil I had ordered last week.

 I do have Cotton Fiber at hand, so my question is:

 Can I use Cotton Fiber to thicken the gluing resin, instead of Cab-o-Sil?

 

 Thanks

 Carlos

 

 Enviado do meu iPhone

 

 ====================================

 -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

_________________
--Dave
KWVI

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Thanks to you all for the quick and helpful responses.

I decided to wait to get the Cab-o-Sil.



Cheers

Carlos



Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 08/03/2017, às 14:42, David Saylor <saylor.dave(at)gmail.com> escreveu:



[quote] Carlos,

 

 Substituting cotton for Cab-o-sil to glue the door halves together would create a strong structure, but I can think of a few possible issues:

 

 Cotton will be heavier.

 

 Since the door is so highly curved, some resin will run out of the bond just due to gravity.  Cab helps prevent that.  So would a fast-curing resin and heat, but you'll have less working time 

 

 The door may end up "thicker" since the cotton layer between the skins will be thicker than a resin/cab mixture.

 

 If your layer of cotton isn't extremely uniform, you may end up with voids

Gordon Anderson

Joined: 16 Apr 2012
Posts: 41
Location: Switzerland

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 1:42 pm Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Carlos,



I glued the door halves together the first time with Cab-o-Sil.



I got nervous about the cracking noises when I tried to flex the doors, so I peeled them apart again by hand (very easy) and re-glued them using cotton flox as filler.  There is no way they are coming apart this time, and I really cannot understand why Van's recommended a non-structural filler.



If you want to check for voids after gluing, backlight the assembly with a 150W floodlight in a darkened room.  It's a highly effective "poor man's x-ray" once you can get the hang of interpreting the shadows.



Cheers, 



Gordon, Switzerland

41015 finished this year, maybe.....

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:05 pm Post subject: Re: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

 	  Gordon Anderson wrote: 	
		  Carlos,



I glued the door halves together the first time with Cab-o-Sil.



I got nervous about the cracking noises when I tried to flex the doors, so I peeled them apart again by hand (very easy) and



Cheers, 



Gordon, Switzerland

41015 finished this year, maybe..... 	




If you can peel apart by hand an epoxied joint something was not right.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

flying-nut(at)cfl.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

I agree with Bob.  No matter what the thickening agent, the bonding is 

in the resin.  I suspect that the surfaces were not cleaned.  I use 80 

grit sandpaper to roughen the surfacers and either lacquer thinner or 

MEK to clean before bonding.  Also, I wet the surfaces with epoxy prior 

to adding the thickener.  I've used the cotton flox everywhere except 

when I'm using micro balloons to fill/shape surfaces.

Linn

On 3/9/2017 6:05 PM, Bob Turner wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 Gordon Anderson wrote:

> Carlos,

>

> I glued the door halves together the first time with Cab-o-Sil.

>

> I got nervous about the cracking noises when I tried to flex the doors, so I peeled them apart again by hand (very easy) and

>

> Cheers,

>

> Gordon, Switzerland

> 41015 finished this year, maybe.....

 If you can peel apart by hand an epoxied joint something was not right.

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

 Read this topic online here:

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=467125#467125

 -----

 No virus found in this message.

 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

trigo(at)mail.telepac.pt
Guest

Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 2:54 am Post subject: Cotton fiber instead of Cab-o-Sil

Hi Gordon



Thanks for the answer, and the tips.

It also puzzled me why Van's recommend a non-structural filler but ....



Is your plane worth a new visit next time I'm in Swiss lands?



Cheers

Carlos 



Enviado do meu iPhone



No dia 09/03/2017, às 21:41, Gordon Anderson <mregoan(at)hispeed.ch> escreveu:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Carlos,

 

 I glued the door halves together the first time with Cab-o-Sil.

 

 I got nervous about the cracking noises when I tried to flex the doors, so I peeled them apart again by hand (very easy) and re-glued them using cotton flox as filler.  There is no way they are coming apart this time, and I really cannot understand why Van's recommended a non-structural filler.

 

 If you want to check for voids after gluing, backlight the assembly with a 150W floodlight in a darkened room.  It's a highly effective "poor man's x-ray" once you can get the hang of interpreting the shadows.

 

 Cheers, 

 

 Gordon, Switzerland

 41015 finished this year, maybe.....

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> RV10-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum