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lcottrell
Joined: 29 May 2006
Posts: 1494
Location: Jordan Valley, Or
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 Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: Fwd: VG's |
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Date: Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 11:42 PM
Subject: Re: VG's
To: "kolb-list(at)matronics.com" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>
I am glad that John finally gave in and put VG's on his plane. We all
tend to forget that John has never said that he didn't like VG's,
merely that he didn't need them. He is right, he really didn't need
them for his landings, although there may be other benefits to them
other than slowing stall speed.
He enjoyed my Firestar with VG's and it changed it enough that it
surprised him, but when you come down to it a Kolb with flaps really
doesn't need VG's. You can see that with the results that both he and
Boyd achieved. Very little improvement with full flaps. About 6 or
more MPH without flaps. The reason of course is that the flaps changes
the airfoil and thus the plane without tipping the wing back to the
point that it loses the airflow.
Larry
--
The older I get, the less tolerant I am of those who are intolerant of others.
If you forward this email, or any part of it, please remove my email
address before sending.
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byoungplumbing(at)gmail.c
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 6:31 am Post subject: Fwd: VG's |
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In my last post
"The big difference in the vgs on the horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight."
Should have added,,, that on my plane in the configuration ( see above) my cg is in the forward part of the cg range. And I used to loose elevator authority somewhere between 50 and 55 indicated. At that point I believe the elevator would stall, the nose would drop and I could hold that speed all the way to the ground. But could not developed enough lift to stop vertical descent unless I dropped the nose picked up more speed (65 +) then I could do a proper flair. My other option was to carry power. This created more air movement over the tail.
With the vg's I can, at idle slow down till the wing stalls. At that point I can hold the plane in a level attitude, it enters into a mush with no tendency for a wing to drop. Releasing back pressure and I am back to flying in a second.
My biggest regret is that I didn't install the vg's 900 flight hours ago.
Btw when flying solo, I had no problems with any aspect of the handling.
Boyd
Sorry if that is more than you wanted to know.
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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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| Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: Fwd: VG's |
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Kolbers:
All these years and no VGs. The Kolb List accused me of "not liking VGs".  What many failed to realize was...I have a very good flying MKIII without VGs. Miss P'fer breaks and touches down at 30 mph without them. She has no bad habits when it comes to stalling. She'll mush to the ground with complete roll and pitch control without VGs. She lands quite nicely with two up without stalling the elevators.
Now...what I have is an even better handling MKIII. The ailerons are crisper, I get a little nibble/vibration from the prop (I think) just prior to stall (never had any noticeable warning prior to VGs), and the break in ground effect on landing is tamed somewhat. I could use a little landing taming now days. A 5 to 6 mph reduction in stall speed clean is no big deal, as is a 2 mph reduction in stall at 20 and 40 degrees of flaps. I think the big deal is a safer, improved handling, even more predictable handling for an already safe and great handling aircraft. John Gilpin's Stoll Speed VGs are worth every penny he is asking for them. They are easy to install and hardly noticeable after installation. The rounded VG and extremely small size shouldn't be a bother when I do my annual airplane wash.
I'll get the VGs on the horizontal stabilizers to see how they will improve their function. Hope I am happily surprised with the results.
Thanks for listening.
john h
mkIII - 3,384.1 hours
912ULS - 815.6 hours
Gant International Airport
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Saturday, April 01, 2017 9:27 AM
To: Kolb List
Subject: Re: Fwd: VG's
In my last post
"The big difference in the vgs on the horizontal comes with 2 people on board at near grose weight."
Should have added,,, that on my plane in the configuration ( see above) my cg is in the forward part of the cg range. And I used to loose elevator authority somewhere between 50 and 55 indicated. At that point I believe the elevator would stall, the nose would drop and I could hold that speed all the way to the ground. But could not developed enough lift to stop vertical descent unless I dropped the nose picked up more speed (65 +) then I could do a proper flair. My other option was to carry power. This created more air movement over the tail.
With the vg's I can, at idle slow down till the wing stalls. At that point I can hold the plane in a level attitude, it enters into a mush with no tendency for a wing to drop. Releasing back pressure and I am back to flying in a second.
My biggest regret is that I didn't install the vg's 900 flight hours ago.
Btw when flying solo, I had no problems with any aspect of the handling.
Boyd
Sorry if that is more than you wanted to know.
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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