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John Hauck
Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 7:26 pm Post subject: : VG's: VG's |
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Yep, I am well aware of what takes place when the flaps are drooped. Takes
a lot more aft stick to keep the nose up. However, in an 85 mph dive,
straight down, pull back on the stick and nothing happens, no resistance, to
me, sitting in the driver's seat, got the impression there was no air on the
elevators. Soon as I pulled up flaps, I got resistance and the nose came
right up.
I got the same feel and sensation in 1990, when the leading edges of both
wings failed. There was no feeling in elevator, rudder, or ailerons. Just
like sitting on the ground dead still. At 75 mph I should have had some
resistance in the controls, unless they had all gotten blanked out by the
two new spoilers on the wings.
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
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_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama |
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mojaveclimber
Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 19
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| Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:35 am Post subject: : VG's: VG's |
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I agree with John, carry a bit more speed on final and a bit more forward pressure on the stick, keep the tail flying longer. I'm confident you will experience better landings. Jim
On Apr 3, 2017 9:17 AM, "John Hauck" <jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com (jhauck(at)elmore.rr.com)> wrote: | Quote: |
Add a little airspeed when flying healthy passengers.
Last thing I would do is add weight to my airplane to counteract ineffective tail. However, I have added plenty of weight to Miss P'fer for many other reasons. 
john h
mkIII
Titus, Alabama
From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of B Young
Sent: Monday, April 03, 2017 11:02 AM
To: Kolb List
Subject: Re: : VG's: VG's
To all, I guess the tail stall may be my ball of wax, let me make one more stab at it.....
I have described what I have experienced as tail stall. With some information received off list, I will make another option available.
When flying with a passenger, I could only generate enough down force to slow my mkiii to 15 to 20 MPH above the speed the wing stalls. I've called this tail stall. I guess to be able to defiantly call it tail stall I should tuft the bottom of the elevators. Then there would be no question.
The alternative possibly could be that the horizontal stabilizer and the elevators may not be stalling, but it may be that the control surfaces may be too small to provide the down force necessary.
Up untill the time I installed vgs I would have said that either explanation was plausible. As soon as i installed the vgs on the underside of the horizontal stabilizer,,, I instantly had enough down force to hold the plane in a level attitude until the wing stalls. That would indicate to me that the control surfaces were large enough. The vgs have kept the air attached so that the elevators can work to their potential. Had the vgs made no difference, I would have decided that the control surfaces were too small.
I spent some time at the computer and re did my w&b. Cg limits per the plan are 25 to 35 percent of wing cord. When experiencing insufficient down force, my cg calculated to 26.66. within the limits.
My conclusion is that you eliminate tail stall, there are 3 ways that I have come up with,,, (maybe 4) 1. Install larger horizontals and elevators. 2. Install vgs. 3. Limit your passenger's weight. 4. Add more physical weight to the tail.(thus applying more down force by gravity in lieu of aero dynamics)
I understand that men are deep thinkers, and maybe I have over thought this. Larry stop laughing!
Boyd
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