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TSU'd Usb charger??
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mullokintyre

Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 15
Location: AUSTRALIA

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:47 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Hello Electrical Gurus.

I recently got an email from Aircraft Spruce advertising Appeareo stratus  dual power usb charging port which was TSOâ€™d.

I am aware that TSO defines technical standards to which each device must conform.

But I am wondering just what is in a TSOâ€™d version of a USB charger port  versus a non TSOâ€™d one.

Especially given the price quoted on the Spruce website is $399.95.

For that money, I would want it gold plated at least.

Mick building an RV9A.

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:46 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

What is included for the price is FAA permission to hardwire it to a type-certificates aircraft without invalidating the certificate of airworthiness.



If you have such an airplane and want legally to install a USB charger that's worth 10x any amount of gold plating.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 25, 2017, at 5:45 AM, MICK MULLER bigpond <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello Electrical Gurus.

 I recently got an email from Aircraft Spruce advertising Appeareo stratus  dual power usb charging port which was TSOâ€™d.

 I am aware that TSO defines technical standards to which each device must conform.

 But I am wondering just what is in a TSOâ€™d version of a USB charger port  versus a non TSOâ€™d one.

 Especially given the price quoted on the Spruce website is $399.95.

 For that money, I would want it gold plated at least.

 Mick building an RV9A.

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:52 am Post subject: Re: TSU'd Usb charger??

The Appareo Stratus ESG already has two of 5 VDC outputs.  All you have to do is  buy the USB ports from eBay for about $2 and connect the wires.

_________________
Joe Gores

rlborger(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:39 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Aero Folks,

And if you happen to need one in your Experimental OBAM aircraft where the TSO isnâ€™t necessary thereâ€™s a nice unit available for $75 from: 



http://commitlift.com



Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (75 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX  76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 4:45 AM, MICK MULLER bigpond <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au (mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au)> wrote:

--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MICK MULLER bigpond <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au (mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au)>Hello Electrical Gurus.I recently got an email from Aircraft Spruce advertising Appeareo stratus  dual power usb charging port which was TSOâ€™d.I am aware that TSO defines technical standards to which each device must conform.But I am wondering just what is in a TSOâ€™d version of a USB charger port  versus a non TSOâ€™d one.Especially given the price quoted on the Spruce website is $399.95.For that money, I would want it gold plated at least.Mick building an RV9A.http://wiki.matronics.com

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:26 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

At 04:45 AM 4/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: MICK MULLER bigpond <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>



 Hello Electrical Gurus.

 I recently got an email from Aircraft Spruce advertising Appeareo stratus  dual power usb charging port which was TSOâ€™d.

 I am aware that TSO defines technical standards to which each device must conform.

 But I am wondering just what is in a TSOâ€™d version of a USB charger port  versus a non TSOâ€™d one.

 Especially given the price quoted on the Spruce website is $399.95.

 For that money, I would want it gold plated at least 	


   or perhaps platinum plated . . . 



   Try any usb power port product you like. It's

   an experimental airplane . . . this means you

   can try things that may be discarded for one

   reason or another later.



   Risks for incorporation of jelly-bean usb

   power products include noise in radios

   and/or perhaps simple lack of robustness for

   the aviation environment. Just be aware

   of the potential risks and explore them

   under comfortable, low risk flying conditions.



   If you plan to run some appliance that is

   extraordinarily useful/necessary for comfortable

   conduct of your flight, consider building your

   own usb power port. It's just a 5v power source.

   A linear regulator generates no noise and is

   only a little larger/heavier. 

   

   But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

   this case is a license to extort . . .



 



 

   Bob . . .

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:38 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

 	  Quote: 	
		  >But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

  this case is a license to extort . . .
	




Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism.

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:51 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.

     

     Example from one of my past lives:

     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...

     

     For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide. 

     

     We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.

     

     Charlie

     

     

     

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

       

          	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 7:08 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



I’ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with ‘terrible screeching’ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Bob

Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger?

Thanks

Bernie Willis



Sent from my iPhone



On Apr 25, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



Iâ€™ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with â€˜terrible screechingâ€™ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:01 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.



My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product.



Just my 0.02.. : /

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob

Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger?



Thanks

Bernie WillisSent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



Iâ€™ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with â€˜terrible screechingâ€™ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:28 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Bob,

Found Committ Lift.



Thanks,

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.



My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product.



Just my 0.02.. : /

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob

Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger?



Thanks

Bernie WillisSent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



Iâ€™ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with â€˜terrible screechingâ€™ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Just for clarityâ€™s sake, I am not Bob.

â€”Daniel

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob,

Found Committ Lift.



Thanks,

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.



My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product.



Just my 0.02.. : /

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob

Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger?



Thanks

Bernie WillisSent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



Iâ€™ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with â€˜terrible screechingâ€™ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

Eric Page

Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 245

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:18 am Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

My experience was virtually identical to Daniel's.  I spent several months and a several $hundred$ on prototypes of a ground-up design to get a charger that worked well and -- with some guidance from our mentor here -- was electrically quiet.  Then I sat down and figured out what I would have to charge for it to make it worth my trouble.  When I considered what would be involved (form an LLC; get panels of PCBs fabricated and robotically assembled; stock shipping supplies; build a website; set up payment acceptance; handle federal, state and local tax reporting; traipse to the post office to fulfill orders; deal with tech support requests; handle the inevitable returns -- and after all that, make a reasonable profit), in the end, it just didn't make any sense.



For an existing company with engineers on staff, an established supply chain and a dealer network, it's feasible; for an electronics and aviation hobbyist, not so much.



Eric

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 25, 2017, at 10:00 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.

 

 My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product.

 

 Just my 0.02.. : /

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

Thanks, Daniel

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:54 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Just for clarityâ€™s sake, I am not Bob.

â€”Daniel

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 12:26 PM, Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob,

Found Committ Lift.



Thanks,

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:00 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.



My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product.



Just my 0.02.. : /

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 11:30 AM, Bernie <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Bob

Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger?



Thanks

Bernie WillisSent from my iPhone

On Apr 25, 2017, at 7:07 AM, Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com (enginerdy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Some of these USB chargers out there are utter crap though!



Iâ€™ve now racked up a handful of reported instances where people (temporarily) wire in some sort of 5V converter for their flight computers or other electronics and end up with â€˜terrible screechingâ€™ on the radio.



For a guy flying around in a mid-6-figure airplane, a $400 USB jack is a no-brainer. For the rest of us, be careful what you buy. That $12 USB charger from Walmart may not be very good.

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 9:52 AM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

                   On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:     

      	  Quote: 	
		          	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

          	  Quote: 	
		              	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
         	
         this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that, versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 



	
     	
     People seem to almost always blame regulations on the regulator     (government). It's rarely that simple a case.          Example from one of my past lives:     One aspect of my former business was installing and maintaining     security systems (burglar/fire alarms). At the time, there were 2 or     3 big companies in my area, and me (much smaller, but I was probably     the only one who would service 'orphaned' systems). As fear of crime     heated up, demand went up and new players appeared on the supply     side. One day I got a call from one of the big companies, inviting     me to help form a new local organization of alarm companies so       that we could lobby the legislature for regulations requiring any       new companies to be 'certified' and licensed.  Got to protect     those consumers from those inexperienced, incompetent new companies,     right? Existing companies would be grandfathered in, of     course...          For an example closer to home, look at the most common a/c     carburetor. Do some historical research, tracking the dates of     ownership changes (remembering that typically, big money changes     hands) of the carb design, and overlay the dates of the series of     AD's on the float. Correlation? Causation? You decide.           We get the government we lobby for. Or we get the government that     someone else lobbies for, while we do nothing.          Charlie                                                                                               	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=x-msg://52/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

At 09:52 AM 4/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  On 4/25/2017 8:35 AM, Alec Myers wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers

<alec(at)alecmyers.com> (alec(at)alecmyers.com)

	
 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  

  	  Quote: 	
		  But yeah, give me a break. . . . 'TSO' in

	
	
	


  	  Quote: 	
		    this case is a license to extort . . .



Bob, I think that's a little harsh. If you own a TC aircraft - which can

be anything up to a multi-million dollar business jet, remember, and you

want a USB socket, you need something TSO'd. You yourself probably know

better than anyone the cost of pushing the paperwork through on that,

versus the number of units likely to be sold.



If there's any "extortion" going on it's by the FAA and the

ICAO - it seems unfair to single out this product for criticism. 

	
	
	


   You are right of course . . . I wasn't clear.  It's the

   primary reason I have departed the TC aircraft

   scene professionally. Back about 1980, I proposed,

   prototyped, submitted samples, reworked to customer

   desires, did a production drawing package, built

   qual test articles, wrote the test plan, did all

   but EMC testing in our labs, wrote the test report,

   got it bought off by FAA, wrote the acceptance test

   procedure and coordinated with the production line

   to put a new, all electronic stall and gear warning

   horn on the Bonanza and Baron lines at Beech.



   Did it all by myself in about 90 days start to finish. To

   get that SAME exact product on an airplane today would

   probably command a 'team' of  a half dozen specialists

   and take 6 months to a year to wind it's way through

   the ISO9000 policies and procedures mine-field.



   I had similar successes with a constant speed pitch

   trim system for the Lears and a sprinkling of other

   devices at Cessna, Lear and Beech.



   My last exertions in TC aircraft were expended about two

   years ago. The goal was to convince Beech DERs that we

   could take the guts out of a Cessna regulator (made by Lamar)

   and put them inside the housing for a Beech regulator (also built

   by Lamar). The Beech regulator had been a pain the

   the arse for about 30 years. The Cessna regulator had

   a flawless field history for about 20 years. Since

   both Beech and Cessna were now the same company, you'd

   think it was a no-brainer . . . BOTH products were qualified

   and had been in production for decades.



   Fortunately, my consulting contract ran out about three

   weeks into this 'simple fix' . . . and I did not have to

   hang around and watch the various 'teams' turn a little

   problem into a huge one . . . that took about a year

   to get resolved. In the mean time, Bonanza and Baron owners

   were suffering the consequences of 'our' inadequacies.



   So yes Alec, you're point is well taken  . . . to which

   I will add the idea that (1) nobody sets out to build a

   marginal product and (2) the path to perfection is paved

   with spontaneous order, the collegial cooperation of

   all interested parties to do the best we know how to do

   today and improve on it tomorrow. Improvements that

   are now burdened with tons of regulatory mill stones.



   Thanks for calling me out on it!



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:13 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

At 12:00 PM 4/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  I did all the background research necessary to do a fully-protected and whisper-quiet (and probably TSO-able) one a while back, but then Commit Lift and a few others came along and it wasnâ€™t really worth it anymore.



 My chip-level design was going to be a minimum of $100 a unit to sell anyway, and itâ€™s hard to compete when people donâ€™t understand the difference between your $100 product and a $10 product. 	


  Yeah, didn't we have some conversation about

  noise filters on that project? I fully understand

  and empathize with the go/no-go decision to

  go toe-to-toe with the competition . . . ESPECIALLY

  in a market like OBAM aircraft where volumes

  will be agonizingly low unless you spend kilobux

  promoting the product . . . which drives up the

  selling price . . . 



  Been there, done that . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 25, 2017, at 6:12 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Yeah, didn't we have some conversation about noise filters on that project?

	


I don’t believe that was me. Once I got a prototype I was going to talk to you about your testing fee, but my filter was going to be baked into the converter circuit design. I mostly got hung up on packaging, since it needed some kind of nice enclosure that isn’t available off the shelf.



 	  Quote: 	
		  I fully understand and empathize with the go/no-go decision to go toe-to-toe with the competition . . . ESPECIALLY in a market like OBAM aircraft where volumes will be agonizingly low unless you spend kilobux promoting the product . . . which drives up the selling price . . . 	


Yup!



—Daniel

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:11 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

At 11:30 AM 4/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob

 Could you right up the details on building our own Quiet USB charger? 	


   The task is four-fold.



   (1) You need a quiet 5v source.



   Easy to get with an number of linear regulator

   devices. Assuming you want to craft a "high power"

   source (2A) you'll need a device rated for that

   kind of current or more. There are dozens of 

   suitable candidates. Here is but one



  http://tinyurl.com/l227b8c



  http://tinyurl.com/k37l6kz



   (2) Then you need to mount it to a heatsink that will

   keep it operably cool while dissipating (14-5)x2

   or 14 watts. This will look something like this:



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

   (3) Then you need to wire a USB connector with the

   appropriate resistor network that tells your

   portable appliance that this is a high current

   USB power source and it's okay to load it

   accordingly.  I'm not cognizant of the details

   for selecting these 'configuration telltale'

   resistors . . . perhaps someone on the List has

   researched this.



   (4) then you need to package all this stuff

   in a manner that offers some aviation grade

   robustness.



   Perhaps I need to qualify my suggestion that a DIY

   USB power source is 'easy' . . . it is if you've

   been there, done that . . . or perhaps have explicit

   instructions along with a bill of materials.



   Frankly, I wouldn't bother to build one. I've got

   a number of cigar lighter, USB power sources in

   4 different vehicles ranging from 500mA to 2A

   in charging capacity. One is a 4-port device good

   for 2A per port that I think I got at Walmart.



   I can recall having pitched a couple such devices into

   the refuse barrel at my local gas-and-wienies mart

   after discovering that they interfered with the

   car radio or my EMS/Fire services radios. But those

   instances are rare.



   Right now, my biggest victim/antagonist issue is

   a JVC panel mounted AM/FM radio in my Sedona has

   a spur right on the EMS repeater output frequency.

   Can't listen to audio files on the JVC while I'm

   on call.



   Got a new Kenwood on the floor at my desk right

   now that will be rotated into the Sedona as soon

   as I have time.



   If you REALLY want to build one, I and others here

   on the List will endeavor to assist but I think you'll

   find the return on $time$ to be of poor value. You

   can experiment with a lot of commercial off the shelf

   offerings for peanuts.



   Here's the one I think I bought for the truck . . .



  http://tinyurl.com/kujga3t



   This one has coexisted with the compliment of electronics

   in my car. 



   I've got a digital broadband receiver on the shelf

   that's been there for about a year. I think it will

   let me 'sniff' the environment around various electro

   whizzies to explore for potential conflicts . . . but

   that project is way on the back burners. 



 



 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 4:15 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

At 01:16 PM 4/25/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Eric Page <edpav8r(at)yahoo.com>



 My experience was virtually identical to Daniel's.  I spent several months and a several $hundred$ on prototypes of a ground-up design to get a charger that worked well and -- with some guidance from our mentor here -- was electrically quiet. 	


   Oh yeah, it was a gleam in Eric's eye

   that we tried to nurture . . . 



   Nothing ventured, nothing gained but I'm

   pleased that he made the go/no-go decision

   before tooling up and building inventory

   that wouldn't/couldn't move . . .



   I've had a couple of those projects . . .

   



 

 

   Bob . . .

Eric Page

Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 245

Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: TSU'd Usb charger??

On Apr 25, 2017, at 5:09 PM, "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   (3) Then you need to wire a USB connector with the appropriate resistor network that tells your portable appliance that this is a high current USB power source and it's okay to load it accordingly.  I'm not cognizant of the details for selecting these 'configuration telltale' resistors . . . perhaps someone on the List has researched this.


	


I've spent an embarrassing amount of time researching it.  I'll see if I can write something up that will help to clarify it for everyone.  I have a few days off this week; I should have the time.



Eric

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