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Softness in wing?

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bakerocb

Joined: 15 Jan 2006
Posts: 727
Location: FAIRFAX VA

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

From: Owen Baker

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

5/16/2017

Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some

expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the

location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding

this email to the group.

Also see here:

http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

OC

===========================================

From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

To: Owen Baker

Subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Owen,

Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the

plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area

or a little larger.

To our success,

Stephen McIntosh

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

Can we determine "how soft is soft ",

is it possible to measure how much weight needs to be applied to  start the

surface deflection , a matter of a couple of pounds or many more.



Also can you measure the distances from the leading edge  backwards and

distance outboard from the  fuselage, this will determine if its over fuel or

not and if there is a wing rib  anywhere close to it .

Do you  step on the wing from the front or the back ?



Keith



From:       "Owen Baker " <bakerocb(at)cox.net>

To:         "KIS-LIST MATRONICS" <kis-list(at)matronics.com>

Date:       05/16/2017 04:28 PM

Subject:    Fw: Softness in wing?

Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com




From: Owen Baker

Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

Subject: Re: Softness in wing?



5/16/2017



Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some

expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.



Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the

location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.



I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding

this email to the group.



Also see here:



http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/



http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

OC



===========================================



From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

To: Owen Baker

Subject: Softness in wing?



Hi Owen,

Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the

plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area

or a little larger.



To our success,

Stephen McIntosh



This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or

addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole

or in part) of its

content is not permitted.

If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it

from your system.

Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.



Please consider the environment before printing this email.

This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its

content is not permitted.

If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.

Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.



Please consider the environment before printing this email.

pastormac62

Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana

Posted: Tue May 16, 2017 8:19 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with little pressure before it starts to give. 



To our success, Stephen McIntosh 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 From: Owen Baker

 Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

 To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

 Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

 

 5/16/2017

 

 Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

 seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some

 expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

 

 Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the

 location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

 Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

 portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

 could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

 

 I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by forwarding

 this email to the group.

 

 Also see here:

 

 http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

 

 http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

 

 http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

 

 OC

 

 ===========================================

 

 From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

 To: Owen Baker

 Subject: Softness in wing?

 

 Hi Owen,

 Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the

 plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

 thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

 epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

 spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6 area

 or a little larger.

 

 To our success,

 Stephen McIntosh

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 12:29 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the

centre and 45" from the centre line  ), which in my opinion is a design

fault , and  i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial

design, knowing that  high pressure loads are going to be applied  when

climbing in and out of the  fuselage.  Its possible to  also  enter from the

front of the wing and  there is a  rib at BL 32  which adds a bit of support.

I find entering from the front easier



The good news is that  it would be relatively easy to  if any damage is on

the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection

camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming  there is no

damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the

upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro  mix  to effectively  relace the

foam core  with a more solid  replacement. since you have wing walk paint it

shouldnt even be noticeable  wit a bit of touching up .



Hope that makes sense.





From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date:       05/16/2017 06:20 PM

Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com






Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the

flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with

little pressure before it starts to give.



To our success, Stephen McIntosh



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:



 

 From: Owen Baker

 Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

 To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

 Subject: Re: Softness in wing?



 5/16/2017



 Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

 seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some

 expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.



 Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the

 location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

 Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

 portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

 could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.



 I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by

forwarding
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   this email to the group.



 Also see here:



 http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  



http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  

 OC



 ===========================================



 From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

 Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

 To: Owen Baker

 Subject: Softness in wing?



 Hi Owen,

 Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the

 plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

 thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

 epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

 spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6

area
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   or a little larger.



 To our success,

 Stephen McIntosh




	




This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or

addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole

or in part) of its

content is not permitted.

If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it

from your system.

Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.



Please consider the environment before printing this email.

This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its

content is not permitted.

If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.

Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.



Please consider the environment before printing this email.

pastormac62

Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 2:45 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards the front where I do not step. 



To our success, Stephen McIntosh 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

 

 

 

 The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

 from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the

 centre and 45" from the centre line  ), which in my opinion is a design

 fault , and  i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial

 design, knowing that  high pressure loads are going to be applied  when

 climbing in and out of the  fuselage.  Its possible to  also  enter from the

 front of the wing and  there is a  rib at BL 32  which adds a bit of support.

 I find entering from the front easier

 

 The good news is that  it would be relatively easy to  if any damage is on

 the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection

 camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming  there is no

 damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the

 upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro  mix  to effectively  relace the

 foam core  with a more solid  replacement. since you have wing walk paint it

 shouldnt even be noticeable  wit a bit of touching up .

 

 Hope that makes sense.

 

 

 

 

 From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

 To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

 Date:       05/16/2017 06:20 PM

 Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

 Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

 

 

 

 

 

 Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the

 flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with

 little pressure before it starts to give.

 

 To our success, Stephen McIntosh

 

> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> 

> From: Owen Baker

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

> 

> 5/16/2017

> 

> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring some

> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

> 

> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of the

> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

> 

> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by

 forwarding

> this email to the group.

> 

> Also see here:

> 

> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

> 

> 

 http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

 

> 

> 

 http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

 

> 

> OC

> 

> ===========================================

> 

> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

> To: Owen Baker

> Subject: Softness in wing?

> 

> Hi Owen,

> Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter the

> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6

 area

> or a little larger.

> 

> To our success,

> Stephen McIntosh

> 

> 

> 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or

 addressees only.

 The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole

 or in part) of its

 content is not permitted.

 If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it

 from your system.

 Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

 

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.

 The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its

 content is not permitted.

 If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.

 Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.

 

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:04 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be  that

the foam core has  started to disintegrate  for some reason, most likely fuel

seeping backwards . drilling a small hole  ( 1/8") in the top surface  aft of

the wing spar over the soft spot  will confirm if its fuel that is causing

the foam to disintegrate  or something else , but at least you will know and

we can start think about how to  fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point

will confirm it) .  Doing  nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem

bigger over time.

From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date:       05/17/2017 12:46 PM

Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com






Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards

the front where I do not step.



To our success, Stephen McIntosh



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:



 



 The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

 from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the

 centre and 45" from the centre line  ), which in my opinion is a design

 fault , and  i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial

 design, knowing that  high pressure loads are going to be applied  when

 climbing in and out of the  fuselage.  Its possible to  also  enter from

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   front of the wing and  there is a  rib at BL 32  which adds a bit of

support.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   I find entering from the front easier



 The good news is that  it would be relatively easy to  if any damage is on

 the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection

 camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming  there is no

 damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the

 upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro  mix  to effectively  relace

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   foam core  with a more solid  replacement. since you have wing walk paint

it
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   shouldnt even be noticeable  wit a bit of touching up .



 Hope that makes sense.





 From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

 To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

 Date:       05/16/2017 06:20 PM

 Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

 Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com



 



 Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the

 flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with

 little pressure before it starts to give.



 To our success, Stephen McIntosh



> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

>

> 

> From: Owen Baker

> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

>

> 5/16/2017

>

> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring

some
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

>

> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

>

> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by

 forwarding

> this email to the group.

>

> Also see here:

>

> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/



http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  



http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance
	




 	  Quote: 	
		  

>

> OC

>

> ===========================================

>

> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

> To: Owen Baker

> Subject: Softness in wing?

>

> Hi Owen,

> Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter

the
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6

 area

> or a little larger.

>

> To our success,

> Stephen McIntosh

>

 This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee

or
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   addressees only.

 The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole

 or in part) of its

 content is not permitted.

 If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete

it
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   from your system.

 Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the

sender.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.

 This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee

or addressees only.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole

or in part) of its
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   content is not permitted.

 If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete

it from your system.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the

sender.
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  

 Please consider the environment before printing this email.




	


This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its

content is not permitted.

If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.

Emails can be altered and their integrity cannot be guaranteed by the sender.



Please consider the environment before printing this email.

pastormac62

Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana

Posted: Wed May 17, 2017 4:35 pm Post subject: Softness in wing?

Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow. 



To our success, Stephen McIntosh 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

 

 

 

 If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be  that

 the foam core has  started to disintegrate  for some reason, most likely fuel

 seeping backwards . drilling a small hole  ( 1/8") in the top surface  aft of

 the wing spar over the soft spot  will confirm if its fuel that is causing

 the foam to disintegrate  or something else , but at least you will know and

 we can start think about how to  fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point

 will confirm it) .  Doing  nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem

 bigger over time.

 

 

 From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

 To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

 Date:       05/17/2017 12:46 PM

 Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

 Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

 

 

 

 

 

 Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards

 the front where I do not step.

 

 To our success, Stephen McIntosh

 

> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

> from inside , the closest wing ribs at BL 24 and BL 45 ( 24 Inches from the

> centre and 45" from the centre line  ), which in my opinion is a design

> fault , and  i wonder why it was not taken into account during the initial

> design, knowing that  high pressure loads are going to be applied  when

> climbing in and out of the  fuselage.  Its possible to  also  enter from

 the

> front of the wing and  there is a  rib at BL 32  which adds a bit of

 support.

> I find entering from the front easier

> 

> The good news is that  it would be relatively easy to  if any damage is on

> the inner part of the skin with one of those cheap flexible inspection

> camera, by drilling a small hole on the underside . Assuming  there is no

> damage then I would as suggested drilling a series if small holes in the

> upper surface and inject some expoxy / micro  mix  to effectively  relace

 the

> foam core  with a more solid  replacement. since you have wing walk paint

 it

> shouldnt even be noticeable  wit a bit of touching up .

> 

> Hope that makes sense.

> 

> 

> 

> 

> From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

> To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

> Date:       05/16/2017 06:20 PM

> Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

> Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Not near fuel cell. I step on the wing from the back of the wing over the

> flaps which I have in down position. You can push down on the spot with

> little pressure before it starts to give.

> 

> To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> 

>> On May 16, 2017, at 10:27 AM, Owen Baker <bakerocb(at)cox.net> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> From: Owen Baker

>> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2017 6:42 AM

>> To: pastormac(at)comcast.net

>> Subject: Re: Softness in wing?

>> 

>> 5/16/2017

>> 

>> Hello Stephen, I would not attempt to analyze the problem without actually

>> seeing it personally, but it could be a very serious problem requiring

 some

>> expert composite aircraft repair training to help solve.

>> 

>> Apparently you meant wing ribs rather than spars in your description of

 the

>> location of the soft spot with regard to how far it is from the fuselage.

>> Just as important is where is it located fore and aft. Is it over the

>> portion of the wing that contains fuel? If it is over the fuel tank you

>> could find yourself stepping into fuel someday.

>> 

>> I recommend that you ask for help from the KIS Matronics group by

> forwarding

>> this email to the group.

>> 

>> Also see here:

>> 

>> http://www.mansbergeraircraft.com/

>> 

>> 

> 

 http://www.aviationpros.com/article/11105657/the-a-b-cs-of-aircraft-composite-repair

 

> 

>> 

>> 

> 

 http://www.deltatechops.com/mro-capabilities/view/category/composite-maintenance

 

> 

>> 

>> OC

>> 

>> ===========================================

>> 

>> From: pastormac(at)comcast.net

>> Sent: Monday, May 15, 2017 8:24 PM

>> To: Owen Baker

>> Subject: Softness in wing?

>> 

>> Hi Owen,

>> Trust all is well?  I had a question. Where I step on the Wong to enter

 the

>> plane a soft spot has developed. I have a strip to protect the paint and

>> thought about removing it and drilling a small hole and try and eject some

>> epoxy in the area. Any thoughts?  The area seems to be between the two

>> spars. The one close to the door and the next spar. It's about a 6 by 6

> area

>> or a little larger.

>> 

>> To our success,

>> Stephen McIntosh

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

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pastormac62

Joined: 07 Sep 2015
Posts: 71
Location: Indiana

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 5:38 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

Hi Guys,

I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and there was no smell of fuel!!!  I was going to order some west systems epoxy, and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!



To our success, Stephen McIntosh 



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow. 

 

 To our success, Stephen McIntosh 

 

> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be  that

> the foam core has  started to disintegrate  for some reason, most likely fuel

> seeping backwards . drilling a small hole  ( 1/8") in the top surface  aft of

> the wing spar over the soft spot  will confirm if its fuel that is causing

> the foam to disintegrate  or something else , but at least you will know and

> we can start think about how to  fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point

> will confirm it) .  Doing  nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem

> bigger over time.

> 

> 

> From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

> To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

> Date:       05/17/2017 12:46 PM

> Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

> Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards

> the front where I do not step.

> 

> To our success, Stephen McIntosh

> 

>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
Guest

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

That is good news, maybe  the foam has been damaged ( crushed)   just where

people have been stepping on and off the wing  .



 Cant comment on any glues , its been far too long since i had any experience

with any , and the original  epoxy  ( HEXEL 2427 / Eploite 2427/ also known

as SAF-T-POXY), no longer exists  , but maybe a call to  West systems will

find something equivalent, but i doubt its necessary to find a certified

avaition glue   since your just filling a gap , not adding any structural

strength. The HEXEL 2427 flowed nicely - probably too easy when warm. A few

micro-balloons would thicken it up  for your application and not add too much

weight. I would suggest  forcing the glue in with a syringe.



let me know how you get on



From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

Date:       05/18/2017 03:39 PM

Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com






Hi Guys,

I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and

there was no smell of fuel!!!  I was going to order some west systems epoxy,

and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would

flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!



To our success, Stephen McIntosh



 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net wrote:



 



 Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow.



 To our success, Stephen McIntosh



> On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

>

> 

>

> If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be

that
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > the foam core has  started to disintegrate  for some reason, most likely

fuel
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > seeping backwards . drilling a small hole  ( 1/8") in the top surface  aft

of
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > the wing spar over the soft spot  will confirm if its fuel that is causing

> the foam to disintegrate  or something else , but at least you will know

and
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > we can start think about how to  fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this

point
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > will confirm it) .  Doing  nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the

problem
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > bigger over time.

> From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net

> To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com

> Date:       05/17/2017 12:46 PM

> Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

> Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com

>

> 

>

> Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on

towards
	


 	  Quote: 	
		  > the front where I do not step.

>

> To our success, Stephen McIntosh

>

>> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting

it
	




This message and any attachments are intended for the use of the addressee or addressees only.

The unauthorised disclosure, use, dissemination or copying (either in whole or in part) of its

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If you received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete it from your system.

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Robert Reed

Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth

Posted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: Softness in wing?

Steven,

My approach and it's worth only what you are paying for it.....

1. Use the tap test to map out the extent of the void under the skin.  Your comments indicate that it is a bit larger than you first indicated and you will need to try and identify the affected area as best possible.  The tap test (tap on skin and listen for difference in sound.) should give you a good measure of the size of the void.

2. Drill injection holes that will allow you to ensure access to the extent of the open areas.  They should be close enough that you can cover the area between them without having to force the mix into it.  (Check repeatedly for any signs of FUEL)

3. Use an epoxy micro bead mix that will not run out but can still be fluid enough for injection with a syringe.  Syringes are available from multiple sources with plastic tips.  You may need several.  You don't want to use just epoxy because it is too fluid and will run to and settle in any low spots without filling the voids.  It's also much heavier than the micro mix.  I don't know how to describe the micro mix except to say thin enough to inject but thick enough to not have the epoxy run.  

4. Be careful to provide openings for the micro mix to ooze out rather than bulge the skin out.  After application and before the mix has set, check the area and level the skin if any bulges are detected.  Fill it but don't over fill it.

5. After cure, do the tap test again to make sure you have it all filled.  (The filled areas will sound different from the void and from the foam areas.)  Repeat if necessary.

6. Clean up and fill any small holes remaining and touch up paint.

PS:  I have a couple of containers of micro beads left over that I could send you one if needed.  (Coffee can size)

Hope this helps,

Bob Reed

       From: "pastormac(at)comcast.net" <pastormac(at)comcast.net>

 To: kis-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Thursday, May 18, 2017 8:38 AM

 Subject: Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

--> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

Hi Guys,

I drilled a small hole over the softest area right over the fuel tank and there was no smell of fuel!!!  I was going to order some west systems epoxy, and drill several small holes to stabilize the area. I need one that would flow well and bond. Any suggestions would be appreciated!!

To our success, Stephen McIntosh 

 	  Quote: 	
		   On May 17, 2017, at 8:34 PM, pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
		   --> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

 	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
		   Thanks Keith. Going to drill the small hole tomorrow. 

 	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
		   To our success, Stephen McIntosh 

 	  Quote: 	

 	  Quote: 	
		  > On May 17, 2017, at 8:04 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > If the soft spots are more or less inline with each other it could be  that

 	  Quote: 	
		  > the foam core has  started to disintegrate  for some reason, most likely fuel

 	  Quote: 	
		  > seeping backwards . drilling a small hole  ( 1/8") in the top surface  aft of

 	  Quote: 	
		  > the wing spar over the soft spot  will confirm if its fuel that is causing

 	  Quote: 	
		  > the foam to disintegrate  or something else , but at least you will know and

 	  Quote: 	
		  > we can start think about how to  fix it . ( any sniff of fuel at this point

 	  Quote: 	
		  > will confirm it) .  Doing  nothing, if it is fuel, will only make the problem

 	  Quote: 	
		  > bigger over time.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > From:       pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

 	  Quote: 	
		  > To:         kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Date:       05/17/2017 12:46 PM

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Subject:    Re: Fw: Softness in wing?

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Sent by:    owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > --> KIS-List message posted by: pastormac(at)comcast.net (pastormac(at)comcast.net)

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > Thanks Keith. Hoping it's not a fuel cell leak. I have a soft spot on towards

 	  Quote: 	
		  > the front where I do not step.

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  > To our success, Stephen McIntosh

 	  Quote: 	
		  > 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> On May 17, 2017, at 4:28 AM, Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> --> KIS-List message posted by: Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> 

 	  Quote: 	
		  >> The  wing  in that area where you step on , has no  wing ribs supporting it

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