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Albert Gardner
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 455
Location: Yuma, AZ
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 Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:13 am Post subject: APRS |
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Tim, I really like APRS especially in that the family can both track me and tell my time of arrival pretty close. But in cross-country flying I notice there are some gaps in coverage that make me wonder how useful it might be in locating a downed aircraft especially in mountainous terrain. Flying from Santa Fe, NM, to McCook, Nebraska, there were 2 pretty big gaps in coverage when I went looked at my track later that day. And some of that was over reasonably flat country so I assume the gaps came from lack of stations on the ground.
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RV-9A N872RV
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 10:34 am Post subject: APRS |
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I've had really good luck with APRS, despite one of the planes
only having 300mw of transmission power. I do get occasional
gaps, and you are correct that in the mountains your mileage
may definitely vary. It's all dependent on someone having a
good ground station. But I have found it to be MUCH better
than tracking via ADS-B and the ground stations that it uses.
It's definitely worth the one-time investment of $10 for the
license, and $100-150 for the MicroTrak 2000 or RTG plus
an antenna of some sort. I've got hundreds of thousands of
miles of tracking time on mine. It's just one more tool,
and probably the most fully functional and easiest to use by
family members that will give your position the quickest.
I do use modified com antennas for mine, so the transmission
is perhaps better than many installs because I'm willing to
have the belly whip whereas many want to hide everything.
If the ELT+PLB is "belt and suspenders", then I guess
adding APRS is "belt / suspenders / spandex". 
http://byonics.com/mt-2000
http://byonics.com/mt-rtg
Tim
On 6/15/2017 12:12 PM, Albert wrote:
| Quote: |
Tim, I really like APRS especially in that the family can both track
me and tell my time of arrival pretty close. But in cross-country
flying I notice there are some gaps in coverage that make me wonder
how useful it might be in locating a downed aircraft especially in
mountainous terrain. Flying from Santa Fe, NM, to McCook, Nebraska,
there were 2 pretty big gaps in coverage when I went looked at my
track later that day. And some of that was over reasonably flat
country so I assume the gaps came from lack of stations on the
ground.
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Kellym
Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: APRS |
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Interesting. Last summer I tracked a friend flying a Kitfox from Phoenix
to OSH and back, equipped with Dynon ADS-B In and Out. I only had gaps
where he needed to go below 1000 AGL for weather. I even could see him
go from Fisk to turn final to RWY 36. No gaps following him across the
NM mountains. In the Phoenix area the ground station coverage is good
enough that my track starts and ends at 200 AGL. I have the same Dynon
Skyview setup, with a GTN650 providing the position data. I saw about
the same coverage flying from Phoenix to Sun Valley ID, except for my
refueling stop that was between a couple mountains. The return trip was
equally good while I was keeping close to roads while dodging
thunderstorms, since I have the MT prop governor that was suspect last
August (and upgraded right after that trip). I think they have at least
90+ percent of the ADS-B ground stations operational.
On 6/15/2017 11:33 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: |
I've had really good luck with APRS, despite one of the planes
only having 300mw of transmission power. But I have found it to be MUCH better
than tracking via ADS-B and the ground stations that it uses.
|
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_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD |
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Tim Olson
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: APRS |
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Anything near OSH will have excellent coverage. OSH was the site of one
of the very first GBT's installed, and where I went to test a
pre-production ADS-B system in 2008. So I'm not surprised you had
good reception there. Last fall we took a trip to Idaho with my
RV-14 and another RV-10 and they had ADS-B out and there were giant
gaps in coverage going west past Nebraska/Wyoming. The guaranteed
coverage is only at 5000agl and above by the system, for the large
area of ADS-B installations. In the flats it should be much better,
but I still find it very disappointing for weather coverage at any
lower altitudes. I think it kind of a disaster compared to satellite
WX. Just when you need it most...staying low, avoiding thunderstorms,
you will not have it with ADS-B. So it will be largely dependent
on altitudes flown, and regions flown over, as to how good your
coverage is. If you're flying down Florida, it's probably great.
Get out in the North West and it's not so good anymore.
I think if I look hard enough I saved the track comparison for
that flight between APRS and ADS-B, but I don't have time to
dig it up now. About to depart on a trip.
Tim
On 6/15/2017 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: |
Interesting. Last summer I tracked a friend flying a Kitfox from Phoenix
to OSH and back, equipped with Dynon ADS-B In and Out. I only had gaps
where he needed to go below 1000 AGL for weather. I even could see him
go from Fisk to turn final to RWY 36. No gaps following him across the
NM mountains. In the Phoenix area the ground station coverage is good
enough that my track starts and ends at 200 AGL. I have the same Dynon
Skyview setup, with a GTN650 providing the position data. I saw about
the same coverage flying from Phoenix to Sun Valley ID, except for my
refueling stop that was between a couple mountains. The return trip was
equally good while I was keeping close to roads while dodging
thunderstorms, since I have the MT prop governor that was suspect last
August (and upgraded right after that trip). I think they have at least
90+ percent of the ADS-B ground stations operational.
On 6/15/2017 11:33 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
>
>
> I've had really good luck with APRS, despite one of the planes
> only having 300mw of transmission power. But I have found it to
> be MUCH better
> than tracking via ADS-B and the ground stations that it uses.
>
|
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digidocs
Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
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| Posted: Thu Jun 15, 2017 1:05 pm Post subject: APRS |
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ADS-B coverage map at altitudes from 500-5000' agl. (Click the "switches" at the top".)
David
On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 3:58 PM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Anything near OSH will have excellent coverage. OSH was the site of one of the very first GBT's installed, and where I went to test a
pre-production ADS-B system in 2008. So I'm not surprised you had
good reception there. Last fall we took a trip to Idaho with my
RV-14 and another RV-10 and they had ADS-B out and there were giant
gaps in coverage going west past Nebraska/Wyoming. The guaranteed
coverage is only at 5000agl and above by the system, for the large
area of ADS-B installations. In the flats it should be much better,
but I still find it very disappointing for weather coverage at any
lower altitudes. I think it kind of a disaster compared to satellite
WX. Just when you need it most...staying low, avoiding thunderstorms,
you will not have it with ADS-B. So it will be largely dependent
on altitudes flown, and regions flown over, as to how good your
coverage is. If you're flying down Florida, it's probably great.
Get out in the North West and it's not so good anymore.
I think if I look hard enough I saved the track comparison for
that flight between APRS and ADS-B, but I don't have time to
dig it up now. About to depart on a trip.
Tim
On 6/15/2017 3:39 PM, Kelly McMullen wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
Interesting. Last summer I tracked a friend flying a Kitfox from Phoenix
to OSH and back, equipped with Dynon ADS-B In and Out. I only had gaps
where he needed to go below 1000 AGL for weather. I even could see him
go from Fisk to turn final to RWY 36. No gaps following him across the
NM mountains. In the Phoenix area the ground station coverage is good
enough that my track starts and ends at 200 AGL. I have the same Dynon
Skyview setup, with a GTN650 providing the position data. I saw about
the same coverage flying from Phoenix to Sun Valley ID, except for my
refueling stop that was between a couple mountains. The return trip was
equally good while I was keeping close to roads while dodging
thunderstorms, since I have the MT prop governor that was suspect last
August (and upgraded right after that trip). I think they have at least
90+ percent of the ADS-B ground stations operational.
On 6/15/2017 11:33 AM, Tim Olson wrote:
| Quote: | --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
I've had really good luck with APRS, despite one of the planes
only having 300mw of transmission power. But I have found it to
be MUCH better
than tracking via ADS-B and the ground stations that it uses.
|
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