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F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

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flyboy(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

I lined up the F-1046L longeron with the gusset as described on page 29-9, with the longeron flush with the skin. Then, I drilled the holes. The edge distance is terrible, but I can't see what I did wrong. I've searched and found others with the same problem, but no resolutions turn up. The diagram on 29-9 sure acts like these holes will wind up in the middle of the longeron, but I don't see how.

Waiting to drill the other side until I can figure out how to avoid the same problem. Looks to me like I should replace the longeron, but I don't know how to do it any differently and still have the longeron flush with the skin.

https://goo.gl/photos/J8s8gheQ1GBmUUi1A

https://goo.gl/photos/z11vaX6PZt3Zc1w69

Any suggestions?

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philperry9

Joined: 23 Nov 2011
Posts: 381

Posted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

I don't think you need to rebuild the longeron.   Give Vans a call tomorrow and send them the photos too.   I believe they have developed a repair for this.    IIRC, it involves a gusset.   But give them a shout and I'm pretty sure they'll be able to take care of you. 

At least you noticed it now.   Some folks have built on and had to correct it later after the tail is assembled.  Only to have to tear it back apart to fix it. 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I lined up the F-1046L longeron with the gusset as described on page 29-9, with the longeron flush with the skin. Then, I drilled the holes. The edge distance is terrible, but I can't see what I did wrong. I've searched and found others with the same problem, but no resolutions turn up. The diagram on 29-9 sure acts like these holes will wind up in the middle of the longeron, but I don't see how.

Waiting to drill the other side until I can figure out how to avoid the same problem. Looks to me like I should replace the longeron, but I don't know how to do it any differently and still have the longeron flush with the skin.

https://goo.gl/photos/J8s8gheQ1GBmUUi1A

https://goo.gl/photos/z11vaX6PZt3Zc1w69

Any suggestions?

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flyboy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 10:05 am Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

Thanks, I've got an e-mail out to them with the photos, I'll let you know what they send back.



Rebuilding the longeron isn't a big deal.Â  Heck, I can probably bend this one in under half an hour after all the practice with the first four.Â  The bigger deal is that after I build it, I'm not sure what to do to fix the problem.Â  I can line the longeron up so that the holes in the gusset are in the middle, but that's going to create quite a gap to the skins.Â  It looks like a similar situation on the other side.



On Tue, Jul 4, 2017 at 8:25 PM, Phillip Perry <philperry9(at)gmail.com (philperry9(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I don't think you need to rebuild the longeron. Â  Give Vans a call tomorrow and send them the photos too. Â  I believe they have developed a repair for this. Â  Â IIRC, it involves a gusset. Â  But give them a shout and I'm pretty sure they'll be able to take care of you.Â 

At least you noticed it now. Â  Some folks have built on and had to correct it later after the tail is assembled.Â  Only to have to tear it back apart to fix it.Â 



Sent from my iPhone



On Jul 4, 2017, at 4:16 PM, Berck E. Nash <flyboy(at)gmail.com (flyboy(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  I lined up the F-1046L longeron with the gusset as described on page 29-9, with the longeron flush with the skin. Then, I drilled the holes. The edge distance is terrible, but I can't see what I did wrong. I've searched and found others with the same problem, but no resolutions turn up. The diagram on 29-9 sure acts like these holes will wind up in the middle of the longeron, but I don't see how.

Waiting to drill the other side until I can figure out how to avoid the same problem. Looks to me like I should replace the longeron, but I don't know how to do it any differently and still have the longeron flush with the skin.

https://goo.gl/photos/J8s8gheQ1GBmUUi1A

https://goo.gl/photos/z11vaX6PZt3Zc1w69

Any suggestions?

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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List

kearney

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Posts: 563

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: Re: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

Hi



I was reading this thread with some interest as I was about to do this step as well. 



Prior to drilling I marked where the holes would be using a sharpie through the gusset holes. The edge distance was not good for the aft most holes. 

The source of the problem was that the flange of the gusset was not parallel to the skin / longeron. 



I was think of using a shim to move the longeron inboard but then realized there was a much simpler solution.



If you rotate the F-1005C you can get the gusset flange to line up parallel to the skin. This will give good edge distance. You will need to rotate the F1005 beyond where you want it a sit will spring back a little.



Cheers



Les



C-GCWZ Flying

C-GROK some assembly required

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flyboy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 5:48 pm Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

Thanks, I eventually came to the same conclusion.Â  Vans wrote back and said they didn't know what caused the problem, but that I could just add a doubler.Â  That didn't seem like a reasonable solution to me. Sure, I could add a doubler and put new holes in the longeron, but the new holes through the doubler would have bad edge distance in the gusset.Â  I could add more holes way out in the gusset, but this wasn't satisfying to me, either.

After spending a lot of time playing with the parts and a sharpie, I realized what you did, that I could pivot the gusset outboard and fix the edge distance.Â  For the right side (which I hadn't drilled yet), I went ahead and drilled through the side skin in the forward-most hole into the longeron so I could cleco to the skin and be sure that alignment was correct.Â  Then, I simply squeezed the gusset inboard with my hands and drilled the aft-most hole first.Â  Put a cleco in it, and drilled the rest.Â  I think they came out just fine.

So, I rebuilt the left longeron with the bad holes (probably took me about the same amount of time as making a doubler from scratch, figuring out rivet lengths, etc, would have taken).Â  Drilled the new longeron with my new technique and I think it too is now fine.

https://goo.gl/photos/t63mDsvT4a5nmDFu5

https://goo.gl/photos/bgZw1QuKYaSiWZLS8



So, a note to anyone else who hasn't yet done this: check your edge distance before drilling these holes (particularly on the aft-most hole), and note that you can pull the gusset outboard as necessary to get the right edge distance.

On Sat, Jul 8, 2017 at 5:35 PM, kearney <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: "kearney" <kearney(at)shaw.ca (kearney(at)shaw.ca)>

 

 Hi

 

 I was reading this thread with some interest as I was about to do this step as well.

 

 Prior to drilling I marked where the holes would be using a sharpie through the gusset holes. The edge distance was not good for the aft most holes.

 The source of the problem was that the flange of the gusset was not parallel to the skin / longeron.

 

 I was think of using a shim to move the longeron inboard but then realized there was a much simpler solution.

 

 If you rotate the F-1005C you can get the gusset flange to line up parallel to the skin. This will give good edge distance. You will need to rotate the F1005 beyond where you want it a sit will spring back a little.

 

 Cheers

 

 Les

 

 C-GCWZ Flying

 C-GROK some assembly required

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=470800#470800

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

On 7/4/2017 6:16 PM, Berck E. Nash wrote:

On related note; I would recommend that builders apply corrosion 

protection (primer, alodine) to the longeron, particularly  where it 

joins to the skin.



Vans is very conservative with specifying areas where they recommend 

priming and I don't recall if this is one of those areas.  Many builders 

are obsessive about priming and will certainly prime/alodine it.  I 

missed this one and had to take some action to stop some filiform 

corrosion developing at that joint.



Bill "in no way, shape or form is trying to restart any version of the 

primer wars" Watson



 	  Quote: 	
		   I lined up the F-1046L longeron with the gusset as described on page 

 29-9, with the longeron flush with the skin. Then, I drilled the 

 holes. The edge distance is terrible, but I can't see what I did 

 wrong. I've searched and found others with the same problem, but no 

 resolutions turn up. The diagram on 29-9 sure acts like these holes 

 will wind up in the middle of the longeron, but I don't see how.



 Waiting to drill the other side until I can figure out how to avoid 

 the same problem. Looks to me like I should replace the longeron, but 

 I don't know how to do it any differently and still have the longeron 

 flush with the skin.



 https://goo.gl/photos/J8s8gheQ1GBmUUi1A

 https://goo.gl/photos/z11vaX6PZt3Zc1w69



 Any suggestions?


	


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Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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flyboy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:58 pm Post subject: F-1046 Longeron to F-1005E Gusset Holes

Thanks, good call. Vans does specifically call out priming the longerons.Â  First, in section 5, they specifically say to prime all angle, as it's not alclad.Â  Then, in section 29, it specifically says to prime the longerons, then other parts as desired.



I'm not priming anything Van's doesn't say to prime, but I did miss the aluminum angle in the tail cone, so I'm going to go back and do it.



Berck (feeling like he missed out, since he started building too late to join the primer wars)



On Thu, Jul 20, 2017 at 4:09 PM, Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Bill Watson <Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com (Mauledriver(at)nc.rr.com)>

 

 On 7/4/2017 6:16 PM, Berck E. Nash wrote:

 On related note; I would recommend that builders apply corrosion protection (primer, alodine) to the longeron, particularlyÂ  where it joins to the skin.

 

 Vans is very conservative with specifying areas where they recommend priming and I don't recall if this is one of those areas.Â  Many builders are obsessive about priming and will certainly prime/alodine it.Â  I missed this one and had to take some action to stop some filiform corrosion developing at that joint.

 

 Bill "in no way, shape or form is trying to restart any version of the primer wars" Watson

 

  	  Quote: 	
		   I lined up the F-1046L longeron with the gusset as described on page 29-9, with the longeron flush with the skin. Then, I drilled the holes. The edge distance is terrible, but I can't see what I did wrong. I've searched and found others with the same problem, but no resolutions turn up. The diagram on 29-9 sure acts like these holes will wind up in the middle of the longeron, but I don't see how.

 

 Waiting to drill the other side until I can figure out how to avoid the same problem. Looks to me like I should replace the longeron, but I don't know how to do it any differently and still have the longeron flush with the skin.

 

 https://goo.gl/photos/J8s8gheQ1GBmUUi1A

 https://goo.gl/photos/z11vaX6PZt3Zc1w69

 

 Any suggestions?

 	
 

 

 

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 ====================================

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