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Twinstar fuel tank options

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Got to thinking about replacing my tank (which did actually crack sitting here in the ground) and tried to call Kolb last week but I guess they were gone to OSH.  Wondered if I could find it 'online' & found what you see here. On left is a virtually exact replacement, except for the included capped vent on the handle (missing on the original). Less than $13 plus shipping. On the right is an 8 gallon tank from the same vendor. A bit more expensive, but still not bad. Bigger versions got closer to $100, so I didn't order 'samples'; at least not yet.



Not to start a 'feeder war', but how many of you are using top feed tanks? I'm looking forward to the re-fueling process, and being able to pull the cap/feed tube & sit the can on the ground seems like a much easier way to fuel the plane. What say the experienced?

Charlie

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gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

I think this a matter of personal preference. I prefer stationary mounting. I don't enjoy restrapping a heavy tank back in place every time. You must have an original Twinstar. The Twinstar MKII like I built had the fuel tanks (2) mounted behind you with  a covered firewall so they really couldn't be removed. 

In the early days, 1983, ultralighters who flew Phantoms and Avengers use to use top feeders with flexible fuel hose inside the the tank with weighted ends on them for aerobatics and inverted flight . The fuel pickup hose could move from bottom air feeder to top feeder. They also equipped the engines with pumper type carbs for sustained inverted flight. Was never my bag. 

I just prefer not taken things apart and putting them back together. That's just my input. You know how opinions go. Whatever works for you.

George H.

Firestar , FS100

14GDH

Mesick, Michigan 

gdhelton(at)gmail.com



Have a great day!



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 31, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 yet.

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 2:13 pm Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Yep; very early kit. Hard to visualize either under-wing or over-the-top fueling, with the fill neck a few inches under the wing. It's tempting to mount that 8gal tank on the boom tube, under the engine, if it won't cause cg issues.

 I enjoy acro, but I think I'll control the urge while flying this one. 

 Thanks for the insight.

 Sent from BlueMail 

 On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:10 PM, George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com>I think this a matter of personal preference. I prefer stationary mounting. I don't enjoy restrapping a heavy tank back in place every time. You must have an original Twinstar. The Twinstar MKII like I built had the fuel tanks (2) mounted behind you with  a covered firewall so they really couldn't be removed. In the early days, 1983, ultralighters who flew Phantoms and Avengers use to use top feeders with flexible fuel hose inside the the tank with weighted ends on them for aerobatics and inverted flight . The fuel pickup hose could move from bottom air feeder to top feeder. They also equipped the engines with pumper type carbs for sustained inverted flight. Was never my bag. I just prefer not taken things apart and putting them back together. That's just my input. You know how opinions go. Whatever works for you.George H.Firestar , FS10014GDHMesick, Michigan gdhelton(at)gmail.comHave a great day! 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 31, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:  yet.

mojaveclimber

Joined: 06 Mar 2014
Posts: 19

Posted: Fri Aug 11, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Air-Tech Inc Ultralights sells a 10 gallon fuel tank.  I purchased and

installed two tanks on my Kolb Mk3 and am very happy with the now 20 gallon

fuel capacity.



https://www.air-techinc.com/product_detail.php?pid=1079



Jim



On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com>

wrote:



[quote] Yep; very early kit. Hard to visualize either under-wing or over-the-top

 fueling, with the fill neck a few inches under the wing. It's tempting to

 mount that 8gal tank on the boom tube, under the engine, if it won't cause

 cg issues.



 I enjoy acro, but I think I'll control the urge while flying this one. 



 Thanks for the insight.



 Sent from BlueMail <http://www.bluemail.me/r?b=10215>

 On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:10 PM, George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> I think this a matter of personal preference. I prefer stationary mounting. I don't enjoy restrapping a heavy tank back in place every time. You must have an original Twinstar. The Twinstar MKII like I built had the fuel tanks (2) mounted behind you with  a covered firewall so they really couldn't be removed.

> In the early days, 1983, ultralighters who flew Phantoms and Avengers use to use top feeders with flexible fuel hose inside the the tank with weighted ends on them for aerobatics and inverted flight . The fuel pickup hose could move from bottom air feeder to top feeder. They also equipped the engines with pumper type carbs for sustained inverted flight. Was never my bag

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Looks really nice, but they are quite proud of it. If you could have settled for 16 gal, you could have bought 2 ea 8 gal tanks for half what one of the Air-Tech 10 gal tanks costs ($30 each). US Plastic also has a 20 gal tank for ~$160.https://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?itemid=23334&catid=934



Charlie

On Fri, Aug 11, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Jim Thomson <mojaveclimber(at)gmail.com (mojaveclimber(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Air-Tech Inc Ultralights sells a 10 gallon fuel tank.  I purchased and installed two tanks on my Kolb Mk3 and am very happy with the now 20 gallon fuel capacity.  

https://www.air-techinc.com/product_detail.php?pid=1079

Jim

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 3:12 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Yep; very early kit. Hard to visualize either under-wing or over-the-top fueling, with the fill neck a few inches under the wing. It's tempting to mount that 8gal tank on the boom tube, under the engine, if it won't cause cg issues.

 I enjoy acro, but I think I'll control the urge while flying this one. 

 Thanks for the insight.

 Sent from BlueMail 

 On Jul 31, 2017, at 4:10 PM, George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)>I think this a matter of personal preference. I prefer stationary mounting. I don't enjoy restrapping a heavy tank back in place every time. You must have an original Twinstar. The Twinstar MKII like I built had the fuel tanks (2) mounted behind you with  a covered firewall so they really couldn't be removed. In the early days, 1983, ultralighters who flew Phantoms and Avengers use to use top feeders with flexible fuel hose inside the the tank with weighted ends on them for aerobatics and inverted flight . The fuel pickup hose could move from bottom air feeder to top feeder. They also equipped the engines with pumper type carbs for sustained inverted flight. Was never my bag. I just prefer not taken things apart and putting them back together. That's just my input. You know how opinions go. Whatever works for you.George H.Firestar , FS10014GDHMesick, Michigan gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)Have a great day! 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 31, 2017, at 12:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:  yet.

Jerry-TS-MkII

Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 79
Location: Indiana

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: Re: Twinstar fuel tank options

Needing fuel tanks or tank for a recent MK II purchase, I looked at the US Plastics listings.  All say "Not for Fuel".  Does anyone have experience using these?  Or if they are OK to use?

Jerry

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

On 8/25/2017 10:56 AM, Jerry-TS-MkII wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Needing fuel tanks or tank for a recent MK II purchase, I looked at the US Plastics listings.  All say "Not for Fuel".  Does anyone have experience using these?  Or if they are OK to use?

 Jerry



The 5 gal tank you buy from Kolb is also 'not for fuel'. It's just a 5 
	


gal chemical jug. That is not just from observation of the product; it's 

straight from the horse's mouth at Kolb, as of a couple of weeks ago.



If you want a truly fuel rated tank, US plastics has those, too. They 

just cost about 4 times as much. Look for 'CARB' rated tanks on the web 

site. But all you're really getting for the money is a sticker on the 

tank. None of the tanks used in experimental a/c are 'approved' for 

fuel, because the haven't paid to get some gov. official's 'seal of 

approval'.



US Plastics also have all manner of fittings, vented/unvented caps, 

bushings for the tanks (though those are a bit more expensive than from 

the aviation suppliers), quick disconnects, etc.



But don't just take my advice without doing your own research; it's only 

worth what you paid for it. 



Charlie



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gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:00 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Kolb Aircraft. Com 

They can supply everything you need, including new rubber grommets. We need to support them all we can. 

I built Twinstar MKII back in the late 80's. Flew it for about 4 years. It was a good airplane. What year is the Kolb you bought? Restoring can be a big job. I just finished restoring a original Firestar. 

George H.

Firestar, FS 100

14GDH 

Mesick, MI.

gdhelton(at)gmail.com



Have a great day!



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:56 AM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Needing fuel tanks or tank for a recent MK II purchase, I looked at the US Plastics listings.  All say "Not for Fuel".  Does anyone have experience using these?  Or if they are OK to use?

 Jerry

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472172#472172

mojavjoe

Joined: 23 Dec 2013
Posts: 64

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Go to the fuel tank section of U S Plastics 

Joe

From: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com>

To: "kolb-list" <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Sent: Friday, August 25, 2017 11:56:53 AM

Subject: Kolb-List: Re: Twinstar fuel tank options

--> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com>

Needing fuel tanks or tank for a recent MK II purchase, I looked at the US Plastics listings.  All say "Not for Fuel".  Does anyone have experience using these?  Or if they are OK to use?

Jerry

Read this topic online here:

http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472172#472172

Radegast

Joined: 06 Aug 2016
Posts: 15

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:06 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

The boating industry seems to have a good supply for fuel rated tanks. My Mark II Twinstar has a 12 gallon tank.

Jerry-TS-MkII

Joined: 23 Aug 2017
Posts: 79
Location: Indiana

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:10 am Post subject: Re: Twinstar fuel tank options

Thanks for the info.  My intent is to get this in the air before winter... to do a bit of flying,and find out what it might truly need.  So the plastic tank(s) would only be temporary anyway.  In looking inside the fuse, I think a inverted saddle tank, that goes under the boom would be ideal.  But that also means vinyl ester, or aluminum/tig fabrication.. better for a winter project.  Installation would be easy from below, and a "normal" fuel tank filler thru the side of the fabric would also be a nice addition.  Something about two tanks sitting right behind my head.. not ideal.  I'll do a search for tank installations or option photos asap.  jr

gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 9:40 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

Modifying a Twinstar is something that shouldn't be done without careful consideration? Mounting fuel under the boom tube could quite dangerous for two reasons. One is a radical shift in the CG of aircraft and the second is possibly rupturing of tank or tanks on bent or broken landing gear situations. The only thing wrong with the present placement behind you is, they're a pain in the rear to refuel. But, their placement is critical to prevent an aft CG situation. This is just my opinion from years of flying a MKII. If you post some pictures of your cage Assy. I'd look them over. I built mine according to the plans provided by Kolb. 

George 



Have a great day!



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Aug 25, 2017, at 1:10 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Thanks for the info.  My intent is to get this in the air before winter... to do a bit of flying,and find out what it might truly need.  So the plastic tank(s) would only be temporary anyway.  In looking inside the fuse, I think a inverted saddle tank, that goes under the boom would be ideal.  But that also means vinyl ester, or aluminum/tig fabrication.. better for a winter project.  Installation would be easy from below, and a "normal" fuel tank filler thru the side of the fabric would also be a nice addition.  Something about two tanks sitting right behind my head.. not ideal.  I'll do a search for tank installations or option photos asap.  jr

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=472180#472180

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 10:27 am Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 12:10 PM, Jerry-TS-MkII <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Kolb-List message posted by: "Jerry-TS-MkII" <12flybellaire(at)gmail.com (12flybellaire(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Thanks for the info.  My intent is to get this in the air before winter... to do a bit of flying,and find out what it might truly need.  So the plastic tank(s) would only be temporary anyway.  In looking inside the fuse, I think a inverted saddle tank, that goes under the boom would be ideal.  But that also means vinyl ester, or aluminum/tig fabrication. better for a winter project.  Installation would be easy from below, and a "normal" fuel tank filler thru the side of the fabric would also be a nice addition.  Something about two tanks sitting right behind my head.. not ideal.  I'll do a search for tank installations or option photos asap.  jr

 

	
Aluminum/tank sealant/rivets is also a reasonable option. Closed head 'pop' rivets are available, if you don't have bucking equipment. Attached is a pic of the US Plastics 8gal tank I'm fitting. I wish it would fit between the bracing & the boom tube, but it's just a bit too tall. So, it has to sit in the original location of the 5gal tank. I'll try facing the filler forward, and hope I can set up the root fairing so I can peel it off for fueling. If that doesn't work, I'll just turn it around so it's oriented like the original tank. My ideal choice would be a tank that fits under the bracing, sitting on the boom tube just behind the seats, with the filler pointing forward between the seats (original Twinstar with no enclosure).

If you don't mind the fueling inconvenience (my big gripe with the stock 'high' location) and intend to bottom-feed from the tanks, two of the US-P 5gal chemical tanks is by far the simplest, and cheapest way to go. Probably under $30 including shipping.





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stuart(at)harnerfarm.net
Guest

Posted: Fri Aug 25, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: Twinstar fuel tank options

I found this for fueling the Firefly. I mix the gas in the can, insert the

pump and then lift the can onto a stand sitting next to the fuselage. Then

just pump the fuel into the plane, no pouring involved. 



With 4 AA batteries, it will move 5 gallons of gas in less than 3 minutes.

No Spills!



https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00SBZRKEU/ref=s9_acsd_hps_bw_c_x_1_w



Stuart



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