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Manual intercom PTT

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Listers,



My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.  I have good a 

good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the 

intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise 

overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open 

intercom.



To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the 

microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the 

intercom.  It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the 

switch activated.  Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom 

type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the 

other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)



Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high 

noise situation?  Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?



Thanks



Jeff Point



Milwaukee

enginerdy(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the ANR and making it more noisy? 



That could sound like an open mic, possibly.

I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the radio that this should be no problem.



If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine as well. In that case, youâ€™d want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown.



You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Sep 8, 2017, at 7:17 PM, Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Listers,

 

 My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.  I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.

 

 To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom.  It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated.  Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)

 

 Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation?  Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?

 

 Thanks

 

 Jeff Point

 

 Milwaukee

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:58 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

I don't have a particularly noisy cockpit but I do use a flight tech intercom which uses a full time microphone noise suppressor chip from the telephone industry to cancel mic noise in noisy and open cockpits. It seems to ignore anything other than my voice effectively and is the only intercom I've ever been completely happy with.



http://www.flighttech.com/



Ken

On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:17 PM, Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)>

 

 Listers,

 

 My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.Â  I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.

 

 To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom.Â  It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated.Â  Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)

 

 Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation?Â  Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?

 

 Thanks

 

 Jeff Point

 

 Milwaukee

 

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

At 07:17 PM 9/8/2017, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com>



 Listers,



 My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.  I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom. 	


  Mic selection is tricky. Noise abatement falls into

  two categories: Ambient noise that equally impinges

  on both sides of the microphone's diaphragm and wind

  noise which is a manifestation of turbulence over

  the mic enclosure openings . . . which can NEVER be

  equal and opposite to each side of the mic . . . hence

  no noise canceling.



  Airplane radios of the 30's and 40's

  had a similar problem. The airplanes were

  very noisy and there was no practical way

  to do the dual-port cartridge to reduce ambient

  noise. Aircraft mics of this era typically

  had one or perhaps three small holes which

  served as a simple, noise attenuator. To be

  understood, you put your lips to the microphone's

  face cup.  Those WWII movies with John Wayne

  hollering over the radio with a microphone

  10 inches from his face were a bit laughable.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



  Intercom and radio systems in high noise environments

  often feature 'throat microphones'  . . . a simple

  elastic strap that held two carbon cartridges against

  the throat, one on each side of the larynx. These

  cartridges had no holes . . . they literally converted

  mechanical vibrations to their electrical analogs.



  One of these products might be ideal for the Breezy application.

  Unless your fly with your mouth open to the slipstream,

  they'll pick up no ambient or wind nose whatsoever.



  http://tinyurl.com/yclr8szt



 

 

   Bob . . .

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:27 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Listers,



 My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.Â  I have good 

 a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the 

 intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise 

 overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open 

 intercom.



 To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the 

 microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the 

 intercom.Â  It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with 

 the switch activated.Â  Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT 

 mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic 

 (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)



 Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high 

 noise situation?Â  Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?



 Thanks



 Jeff Point



 Milwaukee

Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is 
	


bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is 

silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions 

will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & 

ditch the intercom.



Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not 

overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.



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donvansanten(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 5:37 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Oregon Aero sells a mic cover for use in open cockpit ac. They claim it helps. PS Engineerig also recomends it. I have not used/needed it so I can't speak to efficiency but it a cheep possible fix.



On Sep 8, 2017 18:30, "Charlie England" <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)>

 

 On 9/8/2017 7:17 PM, Jeff Point wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)>

 

 Listers,

 

 My new Breezy is a high noise aircraft, to put it mildly.Â  I have good a good ANR headset to control the noise but I'm struggling with the intercom (MGL V6) and even at the highest VOX settings, the wind noise overpowers the intercom squelch, resulting in a near-continuous open intercom.

 

 To address this, I'm considering adding a momentary switch into the microphone wiring to act as a sort of manual squelch/ PTT for the intercom.Â  It will still be noisy, but will only while talking with the switch activated.Â  Taken a step further, I might use a DPDT mom-off-mom type switch so that one position enables the mic (intercom) and the other enables the mic and the radio PTT (transmit.)

 

 Has anyone implemented such a design as a way of dealing with a high noise situation?Â  Is there any reason why this idea wouldn't work?

 

 Thanks

 

 Jeff Point

 

 Milwaukee

 	
 Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & ditch the intercom.

 

 Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.

 

 

 

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jim(at)PoogieBearRanch.co
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:07 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

I contacted the manufacturer of the headset I use, describing a similar

problem with the rear-seat position in my Citabria when I fly with the

window open for ventilation.  He suggested a leather "sleeve" over the

mike, with three small holes (the size of a pencil lead) on the side of

the mike that touches your lips. You put the sleeve on over the foam

cover, and that eliminates a LOT of the wind noise that is breaking the

squelch.



Good luck!



Jim Parker

jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:23 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Actually that's really all I'm trying to do.  The transmit quality is acceptable (scratchy but readable as reported by tower.)  It's just that the noise from the constantly open mic on the intercom is annoying.



I do have the Oregon Aero mic muff and that hasn't fixed it.  Those help in a high-noise environment (like my RV-6) but are overpowered in an extreme noise environment like the Breezy.



Jeff



---- Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote: 



 	  Quote: 	
		   Probably not what you want to hear (pardon the pun), but if the noise is 

 bad enough to always break squelch, then all you'll accomplish is 

 silencing the noise between uses. The intercom and transmit functions 

 will still be useless. Might as well get a receive-only scanner radio & 

 ditch the intercom.

 

 Any way to keep the wind off the mic? That's likely the problem; not 

 overall noise. If not, extreme measures could be a throat mic.

 

 

 

 ---

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 6:26 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

The ANR works fine- this is definitely an open mic caused by wind noise.  



What would be the advantage of grounding the mic voltage vs. just opening it up completely?  It's s horse apiece to wire it either way.



Jeff



---- Daniel Hooper <enginerdy(at)gmail.com> wrote: 

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Are you certain there are no issues with the wind noise interfering with the ANR and making it more noisy? 

 

 That could sound like an open mic, possibly.

 

 

 I invite others to comment on this, but I believe you could just ground the mic terminal to silence it. There is mic bias voltage on that pin that powers the microphone capsule, but it should run through enough resistance inside the radio that this should be no problem.

 

 If that makes you uncomfortable, shorting it through a capacitor should be fine as well. In that case, youâ€™d want a 1M resistor across the shorting switch to keep the capacitor charged to prevent a big POP when the switch is thrown.

 

 You could get some version of that done with a DPDT like you described.

jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 4:32 am Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

That's an interesting idea, and for the price I will pick one up       to play with it.  Many of them also have foam earplug-type       earphones ala Clarity Aloft... and are designed to fit under       helmets anyway... now if I can just get the impedances to match       up.     

Jeff

          

     On 9/8/17 8:07 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls,       III wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		         

          One of these products might be ideal for the Breezy         application.

          Unless your fly with your mouth open to the slipstream,

          they'll pick up no ambient or wind nose whatsoever.

         

                    http://tinyurl.com/yclr8szt

           

           

                

             Bob . . .

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

The 'best' solution is to get a high noise intercom like the PS Engineering PM1200 or similar (that we often use in P-51's or B-25's, and other open cockpit aircraft) or other slightly better intercom that has a PTT (Push to Talk) that actually has two PTT switches (one for intercom PTT and the other for transmit PTT) as well as having a very powerful squelch circuit meant for high noise enviornments.  



The MGL would not be my first choice...



Just my 2 cents as usual!



Cheers,

Stein

--

rickofudall

Joined: 19 Sep 2009
Posts: 1392
Location: Udall, KS, USA

Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

I made a mic cover from a battery terminal cover and some porous foam. Helped with the wind noise in my trike.



Rick Girard

On Sat, Sep 9, 2017 at 9:59 AM, Stein Bruch <stein(at)steinair.com (stein(at)steinair.com)> wrote:

[quote]--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com (stein(at)steinair.com)>

 

 The 'best' solution is to get a high noise intercom like the PS Engineering PM1200 or similar (that we often use in P-51's or B-25's, and other open cockpit aircraft) or other slightly better intercom that has a PTT (Push to Talk) that actually has two PTT switches (one for intercom PTT and the other for transmit PTT) as well as having a very powerful squelch circuit meant for high noise enviornments.

 

 The MGL would not be my first choice...

 

 Just my 2 cents as usual!

 

 Cheers,

 Stein

 

 

 --

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jpoint(at)wi.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

That is clever, I'll try that. I've also been experimenting with using a tablespoon measuring spoon as a wind shield. The two together might be a winner.



Jeff



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Sep 9, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 I made a mic cover from a battery terminal cover and some porous foam. Helped with the wind noise in my trike.

 

 Rick Girard

 

>

peter(at)sportingaero.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:03 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Jeff, early Extra 300s had an intercom system like you describe. The throttle of both seats had a momentary push button to open the mike for intercom and the stick had the radio PTT. That worked well for the pilot but not so well for inexperienced pax who took a while to understand the need to press the button on the throttle. Like Stein suggested I would install a good I intercom first (and I would go with his recommendation, he has some experience in this field...) before going down the intercom button route. PeterÂ 

On 10 Sep 2017 3:34 p.m., "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)>

 That is clever, I'll try that. I've also been experimenting with using a tablespoon measuring spoon as a wind shield. The two together might be a winner.

 Jeff

 Sent from my iPad

 > On Sep 9, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 >

 > I made a mic cover from a battery terminal cover and some porous foam. Helped with the wind noise in my trike.

 >

 > Rick Girard

 >

 >>

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n233ee(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: Manual intercom PTT

Suggest contacting Sigtronics who designed an acceptable headset & intercom for their T6.Â  They also added a 'glove' over the mic with a very small hole.Â  It worked great in our Mustang II for years.

On Sun, Sep 10, 2017 at 7:01 PM, Peter Pengilly <peter(at)sportingaero.com (peter(at)sportingaero.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Jeff, early Extra 300s had an intercom system like you describe. The throttle of both seats had a momentary push button to open the mike for intercom and the stick had the radio PTT. That worked well for the pilot but not so well for inexperienced pax who took a while to understand the need to press the button on the throttle. Like Stein suggested I would install a good I intercom first (and I would go with his recommendation, he has some experience in this field...) before going down the intercom button route. PeterÂ 



On 10 Sep 2017 3:34 p.m., "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)wi.rr.com (jpoint(at)wi.rr.com)>

 

 That is clever, I'll try that. I've also been experimenting with using a tablespoon measuring spoon as a wind shield. The two together might be a winner.

 

 Jeff

 

 Sent from my iPad

 

 > On Sep 9, 2017, at 10:36 AM, Richard Girard <aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com (aslsa.rng(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 >

 > I made a mic cover from a battery terminal cover and some porous foam. Helped with the wind noise in my trike.

 >

 > Rick Girard

 >

 >>

 

 

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