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Shrike nose
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n395v

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 450

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Re: Shrike nose

It is my impression that an STC requires demonstration and documentation of claims as well as demonstration and documentation of adverse affects of the modification in question.



Below is the link to the flap gap seal page of Aircenters website and an excerpt from that page stating what the flap gap seals will do.



http://www.aircenterinc.com/products_seals.php



WHY? Increases Speed, Rate Of Climb, & Roll Rate

Less Drag

Increase In Fuel Efficiency

Cosmetics



PRICE OF KIT: $1,800

PMA: Yes

STC NO: SA2903SW



The Flap Gap Seals are installed on the top and bottom of the wings. There is a large opening between the flaps and the bottom of the wing. The Flap Gap Seal will seal this opening between the top and bottom of the flaps. When the flaps are in the up position, lifting air pressure can no longer escape through this gap, thus the increased lift improves rate of climb and performance. Our Flap Gap Seal STC is the same type as you find on the Turbo Commanders. The Flap Gap Seals increase overall airspeed by six knots. Installation of the Flap Gap Seals will greatly improve slow speed roll control, resulting in better short field take-off and landing capabilities. Our STC is approved for all 500 and 600 series Twin Commanders. The kit can be installed in two days.



I suppose that "improved short field takeoff capabilities" is open to interpretation but it suggests to me shorter takeoff.

My suspicion is that the amount of increased or decreased takeoff distance is negated by pilot technique in either direction and is a small number when measured in feet so as to make it inconsequential to the original poster of the nose question.

If indeed the seals do increase takeoff distance by a small amount you probably shouldn't be taking off from that field in the first place.



I understand that using the seals the standard technique is to not use flaps. This is immensley beneficial in the event of engine loss at a critical moment in that it is one less item to have to clean up. Thus one could argue that the gap seals add a safety factor.



As the owner of the STC Gary should be able to tell us exactly the Takeoff difference with the seals for each model. 

[/url]

_________________
Milt

BillLeff1(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:50 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

My 560F gets off the ground better since I installed them. I did not see  

much speed difference

 

Bill Leff

jetprop

Joined: 17 Jan 2006
Posts: 1

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Shrike nose

 	  amg(at)nc.rr.com wrote: 	
		  Hello,



Anyone know how much a Shrike nose cost, and who sells and installs them??? 	




Hi - Bruce Byerly here - just wanted to introduce myself. I've been lurking around the board for awhile now -- you guys seem to be having fun   



I've grown up with Commanders and we have had a fiberglass nose cut from an airframe for years. It's in good shape but will need to be removed from the original structure. It's setup for a radome, but the radome has since found a home. Let me know if you're interested.



309-397-2525

dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:38 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

Installation of flap gap seals on my 500 Shrike improved my landings by

100% as it improved the slow speed handling and allowed it to float.  I

am now able to reduce my over the numbers speed by 15 mph without

worrying about stalling and flopping down.  By being able to slow down

safely I can reduce my ground roll significantly and operate into

shorter fields without burning out my brakes.  As far as take off

performance, and this is anecdotal, I feel it comes off the ground

sooner due to improved lift.  I cost me $1800.00 for the kit and 32

hours labor but I wouldn't fly without them.



--

moe(at)rosspistons.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

Regarding the Flap Gap Seals,



There is no doubt in my mind that flap gap seals do degrade the distance

before rotation.  I can't remember exactly how much (I think that it is

about 75 feet) but if anyone wants to know exactly, I will stop by the plane

and pick up my figures.  This comes from taking off and landing at the same

airport (HHR) for several years in the same plane with the conditions being

about the same every day. I had the flap gap seals and winglets added at the

same time.  The performance degraded enough that I changed my "you should

rotate at this point" when taking off references.



Regards,



Moe

N680RR

680F(p)

---

captseth

Joined: 11 Jan 2006
Posts: 10
Location: NYC

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

It seems to make sense to me that adding the gap seals

will eliminate any intended or unintended slotted

effect that might exist in the flap design, thereby

reducing runway performance but increasing cruise

performance. 



CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: Please consider the materials in this electronic mail transmission (including all attachments) as private, confidential, and the property of the sender. The information contained in the material is privileged and is intended only for the use of the named addressee(s). Please do not make any unauthorized disclosure, copying, or distribution of this material. If you have received this electronic mail transmission in error, please immediately notify me by sending an electronic message to capt_seth(at)yahoo.com, and thereafter, destroy it immediately. Thank you.

YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

In a message dated 1/17/2006 6:54:13 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

capnspray_611(at)hotmail.com writes:



Pictures  of N198JW 50FT. in the 

air, 1000FT from start of take-off from my 1900 FT  grass strip 800 Ft 

Without the gap seals it would have been 150 feet at the same spot;-)   jb

YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

In a message dated 1/17/2006 7:03:26 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

bertberry1(at)aol.com writes:



Maybe  the magic doesn't work until you paint them

Never thought of that!!  What WAS I thinking?????   jb

YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:04 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

In a message dated 1/17/2006 6:05:01 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

moe(at)rosspistons.com writes:



The  performance degraded enough that I changed my "you should

rotate at this  point" when taking off references.

That's how it worked in my neighborhood as well.  jb

YOURTCFG(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: Shrike nose

In a message dated 1/17/2006 5:39:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  

dfalik(at)sbcglobal.net writes:



As far  as take off

performance, and this is anecdotal, I feel it comes off the  ground

sooner due to improved lift.

Great opinion.  But lets be reasonable here.  Without the gap  seals, the air 

is free to travel up a well thought out slot between the flap and  the TE of 

the wing.  If you look closely, you will see that Ted Smith put a  lot of time 

into this area of the wing.  The air can reattach to the LE of  the flap and 

creates a much more efficient slow speed wing (look at the flaps on  a 

Boeing).  You simply cannot improve lift by closing this area up.   You can, however, 

decrease drag. (more lift, more drag, less lift,  less drag)  

    Cover the gap up, and you now have an early twin  Cessna flap.  There is 

less drag, sure, hince the "float".  But float  does not mean the airplane is 

performing better at slow speed,   in fact, just the opposite is true.

    Look, I fly all kinds of Commanders, all different  models, all the time. 

 I fly them with and without all of these mods, long  and short noses, gap 

seals etc.  I love the gap seals if TO /  Landing performance is not an issue.  

If it is, better think  twice.  I am not trying to be a pill here, but this is 

aerodynamic  fact.  jb

Jerry Sprayberry

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 15
Location: Summerville, GA

Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2006 4:29 am Post subject: Shrike nose

Good to know that, even though I have painted mine, so I guess the paint is 

not the answer. JRS:

---

_________________
Capn Spray

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