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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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 Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 1:57 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Ivor, How old was the pipe? David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-14 09:21, Ivor wrote:
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Ivor
Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 5:04 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi David
original pipe with 10 years use, did check it at five years obviously but it seemed fine at the time,
luckily Frank xuereb down the road from me had some spare original pipe going spare,
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Ivor,
What fuels have you been using predominantly and do you leave the tanks full (or at least the rubber connector internally submerged) between flights?
Rgds.,
Duncan McF.
| Quote: | ----Original Message----
From: g-iver(at)live.co.uk
Date: 14/12/2017 13:04
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk>
Hi David
original pipe with 10 years use, did check it at five years obviously but it seemed fine at the time,
luckily Frank xuereb down the road from me had some spare original pipe going spare,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=47========================<br= -========================sp; - List Contribution Web Site -
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Ivor
Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:24 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Duncan
I have always tried to minimise Avgas use but some times that all you can
get, so Mainly UL91 with some Super unleaded as a last resort,
Yes i do try to leave the fuel tank full but not normally up the cobra,
The amount of Rubber exposed to any fuel is quite small, after the cobra i have a aluminium pipe so the two pieces you see just connect the pipe to the tank and cobra,
outside condition of the rubber is good,
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Thu Dec 14, 2017 10:45 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Ivor,
Will you be replacing with Viton lined stuff? The only affordable Viton (at that diameter) seems to be fluorosilicone lined silicone hose, which is not rated for permanent (internal) immersion, but is advertised to be OK for temporary immersion and full time contact with vapours. Softer too, which may make getting a gas-tight seal a bit easier.
D.
| Quote: | ----Original Message----
From: g-iver(at)live.co.uk
Date: 14/12/2017 18:24
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ivor" <g-iver(at)live.co.uk>
Hi Duncan
I have always tried to minimise Avgas use but some times that all you can
get, so Mainly UL91 with some Super unleaded as a last resort,
Yes i do try to leave the fuel tank full but not normally up the cobra,
The amount of Rubber exposed to any fuel is quite small, after the cobra i have a aluminium pipe so the two pieces you see just connect the pipe to the tank and cobra,
outside condition of the rubber is good,
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic. - List Contribution Web Sip; &nbs=======================
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Ivor
Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:53 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi Duncan
as previously said i managed to get a piece of the original hose from
Frank Xuereb that will work fine until the next flying season when hopefully
a more permanent solution is found,
IMO if a hose designed for fuel cannot be immersed in fuel then it’s not fit
for purpose,
my last hose lasted at least 5 years before starting to degrade so an original hose should be fine until a proper replacement is found,
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
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afc.tulips7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 12:47 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independently by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good condition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended baggage bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:17 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the fuel system (and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or whether you fill up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe have spent most of its life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote: | Quote: | Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independently by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good condition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended baggage bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:20 pm Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Thanks, David.
I think I'll replace the hose by a new silicon hose or the original one from Europa for at least another 5 years peace of mind.
What amazes me is, that there are huge differences in the condition of the hoses although exposed to a similar environment.
BTW - I guess mine is from 2001 as well.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Bud, Sounds great to me but I think Pete Jeffers is the one to answer that - he is our LAA inspector on the committee and very much involved with trying to get a sensible solution approved.
Regards, David
On 2017-12-15 21:29, Bud Yerly wrote: | Quote: | David and all,
Over here in the States we weld up a 57 degree elbow out of 2" .049 6061T-6. Cut to fit. 2" fuel hose pieces and done.
Rather than those beautiful bent tubes, would the LAA allow such a simple mod that only costs a few bucks to make? The certified welder is the only cost. I cut the tube on my compound miter saw.
Curt welds it up in 10 minutes. It takes 5 minutes to trim up the ends to fit.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly,
Custom Flight Creations, Inc.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE DROID
On Dec 15, 2017 4:20 PM, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:
Anthony, It would be interested to know whether you usually fill the fuel system (and if so ? up to the top) before you put the plane away or whether you fill up just before you go flying. That is will that pipe have spent most of its life in contact with fuel or with fumes? Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 20:47, anthony van eldik wrote: | Quote: | Dear David,
For your information my fuel filler hose dated 2001 was inspected independently by two engineers including my inspector and found to be in very good condition inside/out.Fuel used over the years was BP premium unleaded .Pending a suitable replacement the hose will be refitted. It should be possible to find a replacement silicone fuel approved hose. I have the Xs extended baggage bay short hose version.
Regards
Anthony van Eldik
Sent from my iPad
On 15 Dec 2017, at 20:17, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Yes 51 mm it is, but if there is no rush, there is a good possibility of the LAA coming up with an approved solution fairly soon
Regards, David Joyce,GXSDJ
On 2017-12-15 19:54, Roland wrote:
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dpark748(at)me.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:28 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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[img]cid:2958E4B8-5B90-4D32-A257-A3B2D79E1C16[/img]
Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote]Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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danny shepherd
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 117
Location: north Wales, United Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:52 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Hi All, I bought a aluminium elbow from Tim when my wife and I had a tour of New Zealand, I think it was Febuary 2007. I have only used Ethonal free mogas since my first flight in Febuary 2009. As you can see from the pic the rubber connecters are perfect. Does this prove that the problem is the use of ethonal moges and maybe avgas !!. I wonder if Tim can produce more of these elbow.
Cheers Danny. G.c.e.r.i XS tri
On 16/12/2017 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON wrote:
[quote] Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com) wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: [quote][img]cid:15134345115a352d8f3536a829770425(at)doctors.org.uk[/img]Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote] Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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dg.watts(at)talktalk.net
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
[quote]
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: [quote]
<image1.jpeg>
Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote] Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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brian.davies(at)clara.co.
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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The angle is nearer 60 degrees so I am not sure it would work. It would be nice if it did.
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Watts
Sent: 16 December 2017 15:35
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas
I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
[quote]
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote:[quote]
<image1.jpeg>
Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem
Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote]
Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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rogersheridan(at)mac.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Chaps,
This link has some interesting information on variations in “fluorosilicone” hose.
http://www.silflex.com/products/fuel-oil-applications.html
I will be looking for the term “profuel”.
Regards,
Roger
[quote]On 16 Dec 2017, at 17:41, Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)> wrote:
The LAA will want chapter and verse on its suitability for petrol + ethalene fuel.
PeteOn 16/12/17 15:35, David Watts wrote:
[quote]I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
[quote]
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote:[quote]<image1.jpeg>Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problemDave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
[quote]Best solution is to use short silicone joints to an aluminium elbow, it's much lighter and the silicone is less problematic regarding erosion etc.
Tim Ward organised a batch of nice elbows but that was years ago.
It wouldn't be difficult to weld one up?
Graham
On Saturday, 16 December 2017, 9:33, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)>
Demon Tweeks says in stock 3 day delivery.
Brian
--
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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According to the Silflex website Samco is a brand of theirs.
On 12/16/2017 8:12 PM, Pete Lawless wrote:
| Quote: |
Roger I think ProFuel is a Samco brand name.
Pete
On 16/12/17 18:26, Roger Sheridan wrote:
| Quote: | Chaps,
This link has some interesting information on variations in “fluorosilicone” hose.
http://www.silflex.com/products/fuel-oil-applications.html
I will be looking for the term “profuel”.
Regards,
Roger
| Quote: | On 16 Dec 2017, at 17:41, Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)> wrote:
The LAA will want chapter and verse on its suitability for petrol + ethalene fuel.
Pete On 16/12/17 15:35, David Watts wrote:
| Quote: | I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: | Quote: | <image1.jpeg> Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
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jan_de_jong(at)casema.nl
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| Posted: Sat Dec 16, 2017 11:43 am Post subject: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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According to the Silflex website Samco is a brand of theirs.
Correction (too fast): Silflex manufactures Samco hose. Silflex and Samco both use the term Profuel in their description of the good stuff. Samco apparently uses "ProFuel" as a brand name.
On 12/16/2017 8:12 PM, Pete Lawless wrote:
| Quote: |
Roger I think ProFuel is a Samco brand name.
Pete
On 16/12/17 18:26, Roger Sheridan wrote:
| Quote: | Chaps,
This link has some interesting information on variations in “fluorosilicone” hose.
http://www.silflex.com/products/fuel-oil-applications.html
I will be looking for the term “profuel”.
Regards,
Roger
| Quote: | On 16 Dec 2017, at 17:41, Pete Lawless <pete(at)lawless.info (pete(at)lawless.info)> wrote:
The LAA will want chapter and verse on its suitability for petrol + ethalene fuel.
Pete On 16/12/17 15:35, David Watts wrote:
| Quote: | I have seen an aluminium tube 45 degree solution on eBay at item number 300735817645 for less than £20. May be suitable.
Dave Watts
G-BXDY
On 16 Dec 2017, at 14:28, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:
| Quote: |
Dave, a nice solution, but for those who haven't got a tame aluminium welder it might be cheaper to buy a flurosilicone lined angled fuel filler hose from carbuildersolutions.com and use a straight section of alloy tubing to make up the necessary length. Regards, David, G-XSDJ
On 2017-12-16 11:27, david park wrote: | Quote: | <image1.jpeg> Simple and cheap did this three years ago without any problem Dave Park
On 16 Dec 2017, at 11:19, GRAHAM SINGLETON <grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com (grahamsingleton(at)btinternet.com)> wrote:
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tennant
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Sun Dec 17, 2017 1:02 am Post subject: Re: LAA Airworthiness Alert. AIL December 2017 All Europas |
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Gentelmen,
We have bunches of 6061 Aluminium tube 50mm dia in stock that we would cut to whatever length you need.
Barry
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Barry Tennant
D-EHBT
At EDLM - Germany |
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