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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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 Posted: Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:52 am Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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To: Builders/Owners interested in the Aluminium Fuel Elbow.
Hi All
Brian Davies has kindly applied to the UKLAA for Modifications approval regarding the fuel filler elbow from the cobra to the tank. These should be signed off shortly.
He has presented two options, one being the 53 degree aluminium pipe I supply and the other the AutoSilicon 60 degree hose.
There is a considerable price difference regarding the two systems.
Before ordering the aluminium pipes I need a firm commitment from you as I don’t want to end up with unsold pipes. If you decide not to go with the aluminium pipe then I entirely understand.
The cost of the aluminium pipe would be £25 each plus postage within UK as I can transport them there myself, although the cost is not a lot less from sending them direct from NZ.
This is double the cost of the AutoSilicon 60 degree pipe which is £12.42 each plus postage.
http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/
Four fuel Clips and hose couplings are an added cost for the builder/owner in both options.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/
Please email me if you still would like the Aluminium Tube.
Look forward to your reply.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
On 19/12/2017, at 12:02 PM, Matt Dovey <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk (mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk)> wrote:
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:46 am Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hi Tim,
I am not sure if I am missing something but I have been looking on the AutoSilicon web site and I cannot find anything referring to a 60 degree elbow. They certainly seem to have 45 degree & 90 degree elbows but no 60 degree ones. Now does this matter or will a 45 degree one fit adequately. Caution also that the website does not distinguish by name between alloy and plastic elbows. The plastic ones are not suitable for fuel.
Pete
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Ward
Sent: 27 January 2018 09:52
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Re: Aluminium Elbow
To: Builders/Owners interested in the Aluminium Fuel Elbow.
Hi All
Brian Davies has kindly applied to the UKLAA for Modifications approval regarding the fuel filler elbow from the cobra to the tank. These should be signed off shortly.
He has presented two options, one being the 53 degree aluminium pipe I supply and the other the AutoSilicon 60 degree hose.
There is a considerable price difference regarding the two systems.
Before ordering the aluminium pipes I need a firm commitment from you as I don’t want to end up with unsold pipes. If you decide not to go with the aluminium pipe then I entirely understand.
The cost of the aluminium pipe would be £25 each plus postage within UK as I can transport them there myself, although the cost is not a lot less from sending them direct from NZ.
This is double the cost of the AutoSilicon 60 degree pipe which is £12.42 each plus postage.
http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/
Four fuel Clips and hose couplings are an added cost for the builder/owner in both options.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/
Please email me if you still would like the Aluminium Tube.
Look forward to your reply.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
On 19/12/2017, at 12:02 PM, Matt Dovey <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk (mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk)> wrote:
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Aluminium Elbow |
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Cont.....
Actually re. the ASH silicone hose above I don’t think is made of the right stuff to be fuel resistant.
This one from Merlin probably is (same material as the coupling hose that Brian is putting in the mod) - but just by looking I’m not sure if the elbows would be long enough? Doh!
https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-60-degree-silicone-hose-elbow-pe60
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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G-TERN
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pjeffers(at)talktalk.net
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:30 am Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hi Jon,
I think the 60 degree elbow you mention may be OK but it still needs to be connected at both ends using some form of fuel proof connector. However this elbow is NOT the subject of the standard mod being proposed and approved by the LAA at present.
That Standard Mod from Brian Davies which WILL be approved, uses either an aluminium (aluminum) elbow supplied by Tim Ward in NZ or a 60 degree aluminium elbow available from http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/ In both cases the elbow is connected to tank and Cobra using ProFuel (fuel proof) hoses and clips.
Pete Jeffers LAA Inspector to the Europa Club
--
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Aluminium Elbow |
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Thanks Pete, I’m fine with it - I’ve already got one of Tim’s aluminium elbows which I bought from him a few years ago and never got around to fitting! I’ve ordered a pair of the silicone hose couplers exactly as specified by Brian in the standard mod which are on back order.
Incidentally my black factory hose, on inspection was in perfect order - but as the topic is current I may as well take a few minutes to bring it up to the best specification.....!
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 7:59 am Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hi Pete,I found the 60 degree elbow from the “Silicon Hoses” list (AutoSilicon Website) down the left hand side of the silicon hose products. Custom built products? Hard to find, I know!
Brian Davies recommended these as an alternative to my aluminium pipe and is trying to get UKLAA approval from Andy, along with the aluminium pipe. Not sure if the material is suitable as I read they are coolant hoses. However I will leave that to the experts to decide, as there are different combinations of materials they can make them from to resist fuel. See links. Price may differ though.
After my email to builder/owners, expressing an interest in the aluminium pipe alternative, and stating the alternative AutoSilicon product, all have gone for the aluminium pipe.
I have 35 on order to post soon. The 53 degrees makes an excellent join for the rubber couplings to the tank and cobra. The 60 degree AutoSilicon pipe may be hard to completely seal adequately, not sure?
I have not had a problem with the aluminium pipe alternative.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
On 1/02/2018, at 11:46 PM, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
| Quote: | v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
Hi Tim,
I am not sure if I am missing something but I have been looking on the AutoSilicon web site and I cannot find anything referring to a 60 degree elbow. They certainly seem to have 45 degree & 90 degree elbows but no 60 degree ones. Now does this matter or will a 45 degree one fit adequately. Caution also that the website does not distinguish by name between alloy and plastic elbows. The plastic ones are not suitable for fuel.
Pete
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tim Ward
Sent: 27 January 2018 09:52
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Aluminium Elbow
To: Builders/Owners interested in the Aluminium Fuel Elbow.
Hi All
Brian Davies has kindly applied to the UKLAA for Modifications approval regarding the fuel filler elbow from the cobra to the tank. These should be signed off shortly.
He has presented two options, one being the 53 degree aluminium pipe I supply and the other the AutoSilicon 60 degree hose.
There is a considerable price difference regarding the two systems.
Before ordering the aluminium pipes I need a firm commitment from you as I don’t want to end up with unsold pipes. If you decide not to go with the aluminium pipe then I entirely understand.
The cost of the aluminium pipe would be £25 each plus postage within UK as I can transport them there myself, although the cost is not a lot less from sending them direct from NZ.
This is double the cost of the AutoSilicon 60 degree pipe which is £12.42 each plus postage.
http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/
Four fuel Clips and hose couplings are an added cost for the builder/owner in both options.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/
Please email me if you still would like the Aluminium Tube.
Look forward to your reply.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob +64 210640221
On 19/12/2017, at 12:02 PM, Matt Dovey <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk (mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk)> wrote:
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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Europa48
Joined: 01 Feb 2018
Posts: 32
Location: Kelso
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hello,
FWIW I ordered the 60° Samco Profuel Silicone hose https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/p/samco-profuel-60-degree-silicone-hose-elbow-pe60
Normally the legs from the bend measure 102 mm, but I got them to manufacture one with 152 mm legs for 67,96 GBP + VAT for me.
This way I'd only have two connections rather than four. However I understand, that the LAA only approves the Mod with the aluminium pipe.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Roland, That sounds to me to be the way to go if the silicone proves to be truly fuel proof and non porous, but it will of course take a long while to get that approved by LAA as an alternative mod.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-02-01 20:35, Roland wrote:
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2018 3:58 pm Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hi Brian, many thanks for your time and effort on our behalf. Time to get the toolbox out!
Cheers, Jon
On 4 Feb 2018, at 09:24, Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com (brian.davies44(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);} <![endif]--> <![endif]--> <![endif]-->
The LAA have issued LAA Standard Mod 14809 to permit the use of an aluminium elbow with a bend angle of between 45 degrees and 60 degrees to suit individual aircraft as there is build variation that can affect this angle. As Profuel fuel proof hose is not immediately available the mod also permits the continued use of lengths of the original factory supplied hose, subject to an annual inspection. This mod should permit the return to service of any Europa with a failed original rubber hose and also enable those of us that have had aluminium elbows fitted for a number of years to record the standard mod in their inspection logs.
If you want to fit a Profuel silicone elbow when they become available you will have to apply for an individual mod for your aircraft. Probably the quickest way to do this would be for one person to apply for a prototype mod and then others can use the Repeat Mod system. This works when you are prepared to install an identical mod. I am sorry it was not possible to include this option in the standard mod as we don’t have an LAA aircraft with one fitted to form the basis of the standard mod.
I have attached a copy of the Standard Mod to save searching the LAA website.
Regards
Brian
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)
Sent: 01 February 2018 22:30
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)
Subject: Re: Re: Aluminium Elbow
Roland, That sounds to me to be the way to go if the silicone proves to be truly fuel proof and non porous, but it will of course take a long while to get that approved by LAA as an alternative mod.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-02-01 20:35, Roland wrote: | Quote: | | 012345678901234567890123 |
<image001.jpg>
Virus-free. www.avg.com
<247_Europa SM14809 XS fuel filler.pdf>
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JonSmith
Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 110
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| Posted: Fri Feb 09, 2018 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Aluminium Elbow |
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Samco silicone connectors arrived. Time to get the tool box out!
Thanks again Brian.
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:16 pm Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Calling John Bean. John, I need your physical address and email address to post the Aluminium Elbow. I have mislaid it somehow.
Great to see you in NZ again, and go for a fly. Catch you in the UK sometime.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Mob +64 210640221
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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iancook_1(at)hotmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:15 am Post subject: Aluminium Elbow |
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Hi Tim, Received one pipe on Friday. Many thanks.
Ian Cook
Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPad
On Thursday, February 1, 2018, 3:59 pm, Tim Ward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote: | Quote: | Hi Pete, I found the 60 degree elbow from the “Silicon Hoses” list (AutoSilicon Website) down the left hand side of the silicon hose products. Custom built products? Hard to find, I know!
Brian Davies recommended these as an alternative to my aluminium pipe and is trying to get UKLAA approval from Andy, along with the aluminium pipe. Not sure if the material is suitable as I read they are coolant hoses. However I will leave that to the experts to decide, as there are different combinations of materials they can make them from to resist fuel. See links. Price may differ though.
After my email to builder/owners, expressing an interest in the aluminium pipe alternative, and stating the alternative AutoSilicon product, all have gone for the aluminium pipe.
I have 35 on order to post soon. The 53 degrees makes an excellent join for the rubber couplings to the tank and cobra. The 60 degree AutoSilicon pipe may be hard to completely seal adequately, not sure?
I have not had a problem with the aluminium pipe alternative.
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob [url=tel:+64%20210640221] +64 210640221[/url]
On 1/02/2018, at 11:46 PM, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers(at)talktalk.net (pjeffers(at)talktalk.net)> wrote:
#yiv9165394798 #yiv9165394798 -- _filtered #yiv9165394798 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9165394798 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv9165394798 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} #yiv9165394798 #yiv9165394798 p.yiv9165394798MsoNormal, #yiv9165394798 li.yiv9165394798MsoNormal, #yiv9165394798 div.yiv9165394798MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;} #yiv9165394798 a:link, #yiv9165394798 span.yiv9165394798MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv9165394798 a:visited, #yiv9165394798 span.yiv9165394798MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;} #yiv9165394798 span.yiv9165394798EmailStyle17 {color:#1F497D;} #yiv9165394798 .yiv9165394798MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv9165394798 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;} #yiv9165394798 div.yiv9165394798WordSection1 {} #yiv9165394798
Hi Tim,
I am not sure if I am missing something but I have been looking on the AutoSilicon web site and I cannot find anything referring to a 60 degree elbow. They certainly seem to have 45 degree & 90 degree elbows but no 60 degree ones. Now does this matter or will a 45 degree one fit adequately. Caution also that the website does not distinguish by name between alloy and plastic elbows. The plastic ones are not suitable for fuel.
Pete
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of Tim Ward Sent: 27 January 2018 09:52 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Aluminium Elbow
To: Builders/Owners interested in the Aluminium Fuel Elbow.
Hi All Brian Davies has kindly applied to the UKLAA for Modifications approval regarding the fuel filler elbow from the cobra to the tank. These should be signed off shortly. He has presented two options, one being the 53 degree aluminium pipe I supply and the other the AutoSilicon 60 degree hose. There is a considerable price difference regarding the two systems. Before ordering the aluminium pipes I need a firm commitment from you as I don’t want to end up with unsold pipes. If you decide not to go with the aluminium pipe then I entirely understand. The cost of the aluminium pipe would be £25 each plus postage within UK as I can transport them there myself, although the cost is not a lot less from sending them direct from NZ. This is double the cost of the AutoSilicon 60 degree pipe which is £12.42 each plus postage.
http://www.autosiliconehoses.com/ Four fuel Clips and hose couplings are an added cost for the builder/owner in both options.
http://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/
Please email me if you still would like the Aluminium Tube.
Look forward to your reply.
Cheers, Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob [url=tel:+64%20210640221] +64 210640221[/url]
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)
Mob [url=tel:+64%20210640221] +64 210640221[/url]
On 19/12/2017, at 12:02 PM, Matt Dovey <mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk (mattdovey(at)hotmail.co.uk)> wrote:
Virus-free. www.avg.com
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