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Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials
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EAAINC(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 4:01 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged  220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.   Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.

  

 Jan

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:00 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I’m shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan

jclarkmail(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 5:29 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Micheal,



It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.



For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 



I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.



James

... no dog in this hunt 



On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen)  <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		                

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

 Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  



  

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  



  

    

	


-- 

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:02 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

How about $$?  

   

TDT  

Do not archive   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:18 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten him to take down the site.  

   

  My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered and were afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.  

   

  I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I have the full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who wants to contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do so.  

   

  James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be much less.   

   

  Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

indigoonlatigo(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Well said.



JG. #409

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>

Reply-To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:28:10 -0400



Micheal,



It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.



For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not

being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of

non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are?



I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.



James

... no dog in this hunt



On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> wrote:

>

>  Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm

>shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now

>how about some dyno numbers?

>

>Michael Sausen

>

>RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

>

>Do Not Archive

>

>Recent RV-10 Build 

>Activity<http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>

>

>*From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:

>owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *EAAINC(at)aol.com

>*Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

>*To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

>*Subject:* Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

>

>I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged

>220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.

>Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.

>

>Jan

>



--

This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at

james(at)nextupventures.com .

dlm46007(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:32 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Sounds like the USA based version of  Crossflow?

 [quote]   ---

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:39 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

For Subaru fans, don't forget there's also Crossflow Engines as an

option!  



; )



TDT

Do not archive



--

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:41 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Interestingly enough, I don’t see Crossflow listed on the Oshkosh Exhibitors list! 

 

   

Innodyn is on there, though . . .  

   

TDT

 40025  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

     

Sounds like the USA based version of Crossflow?  

  [quote]    

---

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 6:53 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  Figure about $30k with shipping plus whatever customization you need to do specific to your setup.  More attractive since the last Lycoming kick in price for a new 540.  You will also need a different cowl that James Aircraft is making .  

   

  As long as we are on the subject, I am curious about how many of the -10 builders that got in on his end of the year special received their engines during the promised June ship date?  I know some of you are on the list.  I attribute some of his past shipping problems to a new product but I would like to see if it got better.  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Dawson-Townsend

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:01 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

   

How about $$?  

   

TDT  

Do not archive   

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:25 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  No, Jan does deliver his engines, eventually, and currently has the only viable alternative package out there.  He just tends to run things off the cuff from what I’ve seen.  He probably needs to get a good business manager as it seems like he is doing everything there.  Reminds me of another company that has awesome products but no development controls in place and delivery problems.  

   

  You have to keep in mind with his engines they are experimental and do not have any version control.  He makes changes to the design on the fly as he sees they are needed.  The engine he delivers one year are different from the next because he always uses the current model year engine.  This isn’t necessarily a bad thing but it does make it next to impossible to develop any type of fleet history.  

   

  I gave his engine serious consideration.  The decision to go with a Lycoming was based on a couple of things.  

   

<![if !supportLists]>1)      <![endif]>No one could give me actual performance numbers for the engine.  All HP was calculated.  

<![if !supportLists]>2)      <![endif]>There was enough private feedback for me to be cautious.  

<![if !supportLists]>3)      <![endif]>This was new engine package and a new redrive design.  

<![if !supportLists]>4)      <![endif]>Jan would not give me a straight answer to any of my questions.  

   

  I hope the package turns out to be a winner on the RV-10.  Right now there are not enough choices!  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

     

Sounds like the USA based version of Crossflow?  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:16 AM  

    

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

    

   

  

  Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten him to take down the site.  

   

  My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered and were afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.  

   

  I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I have the full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who wants to contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do so.  

   

  James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be much less.   

   

  Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Here we go again....

 In all fairness to delivery dates, I can name every major  vendor out there that has slipped dates. I have paid in full for my Chelton with  harness and had the dates slipped on my harness from Direct to Avionics, and the  last time I called they had not even finalized the package. Another one comes to  mind is Tru-trak, I have had my servos on order before May, and have been told  several times they would be shipped in the next few days, it is now July and I  still do not have them. Does this make me mad? No, just disappointed,  but I planned for the delays and in such I will get them and do not have to  stress about it, and it will be the same with the engine. 

  

 These small production numbers do not lend themselves well  to predictable delivery times, and as such, we need to be tolerant of them and  slips. One thing Jan has the ability to do well is communicate to his customers.  He is forth coming with changes and allows us to be part of it. He has kept us  informed of the steps along the way. It is an experimental engine, that is  currently being designed, so yes, there will be delays. But all you have to do  is call and he will give you his best guess, and that is what it is a guess at  that time because unforeseen things come up, the PSRU change comes to mind. But  these delays end up in a better product. 

  

 As for the performance figures, they are right on with a Lycoming, and since this is being sold as a Lycoming replacement, I would say that it is living right up to  expectations. Yes, the cost is the same in the beginning, but during a re-build, you will get a brand new engine, for less than it would cost to just do a top overhaul on a Lycoming.

 As for the RV10 the package is too new to  tell on performance numbers, but once I am flying with it, I will have a FWF  solution including a C/S speed prop, that in total costs significantly less than  a New Lycoming FWF solution. 

  

 I would like to know where you got your information on  the resale numbers, because I am only aware of one sale with an E-Subaru, and  that was for the same amount a standard would sell for. I am not aware on any  other sales, but they could be out there.

  

 The end result is this, in the alternative engine  market Jan is the leader for RV's. The other two have fallen flat on their  face or have gone out of business. I have been following this engine package for  years, and like what I see, and the progress that has been made. More  importantly, I trust Jan and his  ability to deliver on the engine, and if there are issues I am confident in his  ability to fix them. This is the alternative engine market, and something's have  to be taken on faith and your trust in the person.  

  

 We all jumped on the RV10 bandwagon, even before  performance numbers were truly known, and this was because we trust in Vans  Aircraft and their commitment to deliver a good product. Many of us ordered  before the kits had even begun being designed, but that was because we trusted  they would make it and make it right, and the delivery times might have slipped,  even as large as Vans is, they did slip on time in the early kits. I imagine  back in the early 80's, people were having the same discussions about Van's and  their ability to deliver, we just did not have the internet to pontificate about  it.

  

 So in all reality, Mike get over it,  the engine is not for you, we all know it is not for you, but you do not have to  tear down another persons business, to make yourself feel better about your  decision. All of the vendors have suffered in delivery times, just get over  it.

  

 Dan Lloyd

 40269  (N289DT)

 Fuselage



  

  

   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder  (Michael Sausen)

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:17 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine  Specials

 

  

   Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking him  to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One of his  cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very  straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of  his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a  potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno  numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, do  a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find plenty of  instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One of his best  supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which  was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the “complete” firewall  forward package apparently wasn’t so complete either.  I’m sure Jan knows  who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten him to take down the  site. 

  

   My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due diligence  on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming after spending  a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around  on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back  down.  I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking the hard  questions because they had already ordered and were afraid they would be denied  service for questioning the status quo. 

  

   I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing an  alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business and  start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that his  engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno  numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say that  the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I have the  full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who wants to  contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do so. 

  

   James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I  strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the  only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can  keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t  be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a  Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be much  less.  

  

   Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine. 

  

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10  #352 Working on Fuselage 

Do  Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity  

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James  Clark

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine  Specials

 

  

Micheal,



It seems from  your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.



For those that  are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without  some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the  case why not just say what the facts are? 



I am sure he is now motivated  to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.



James

... no dog in this  hunt   

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael  Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)>  wrote:    

Wow, you are actually making  engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says  delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno  numbers? 

   

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10 #352 Working on  Fuselage 

Do Not  Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity

   

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00  AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List:  Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  

   

I have been asked to announce  that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will  be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December  with 50% deposits.

  

 

  

Jan





 

-- 

This is an alternate email.  Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com)  .

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:29 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Not even close, Mike is just an upset individual when it  comes to this subject.

 NSI and Crossflow are two that come to mind, Eggenfellner  is in a whole different class, as he has actually delivered on his word, where  Lance and others did not.



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David  McNeill

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine  Specials

 

 Sounds like the USA based version of  Crossflow?

 [quote]   ---

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:42 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

I do have a builder in my area that had extensive problems with

what he was delivered vs. what he was promised.  He was constantly

updating me with how nasty his problems were becoming.  Unfortunately,

he can now not talk about it because they were rectified by a

return of the engine and a partial refund so he could get a Lyc.

and move on, and in order to get that, he had to sign a statement

that he would not disclose what happened after the agreement

was made.  So, it's a gag order to prevent future customers from

finding out about the promises not delivered on.  To me, that's

enough motivation to go to any other alternate.  That said, there

are many other positive stories we've all heard over the years

from people.  Now you just have to decide, which one outweighs

the other.  People tend to talk proudly of what they bought and

have, so that tends to remove a little bit of objectivity when

discussing these things too.  So it truly is a tough issue to

get to the bottom of when deciding which engine to go with.

I'd love to see a good alternative, but for today, for me, I'm

staying with my Lyc.  Hopefully we'll get a few -10's who go

other routes and give honest feedback so we can see how the

decisions pan out.  At least with Lyc, the statistics are pretty

standard and well known.



Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

RV Builder (Michael Sausen) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		     Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking 

 him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One 

 of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a 

 very straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow 

 one of his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no 

 problem with a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give 

 dyno numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, 

 do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will 

 find plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  

 One of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the 

 engine delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and 

 the “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete 

 either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten 

 him to take down the site.

 

  

 

   My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due 

 diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming 

 after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs 

 engine and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that 

 list they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off 

 list to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered 

 and were afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.

 

  

 

   I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of 

 producing an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up 

 his business and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not 

 saying that his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after 

 all no one has dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to 

 tell.  I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some 

 light on things.  I have the full history of the email conversations in 

 question and anyone who wants to contact me off list for a copy is 

 welcome to do so.

 

  

 

   James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I 

 strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality 

 the only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package 

 that can keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel 

 flows won’t be much different, and the performance won’t be much 

 different from a Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, 

 expect it to be much less.

 

  

 

   Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.

 

  

 

 Michael Sausen

 

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 Recent RV-10 Build Activity 

 <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] *On Behalf Of *James Clark

 *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 *Subject:* Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

 

  

 

 Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as 

 not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of 

 non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are?

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 ... no dog in this hunt

 

 On 7/17/06, *RV Builder (Michael Sausen) *<rvbuilder(at)sausen.net 

 <mailto:rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>> wrote:

 

 Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm 

 shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  

 Now how about some dyno numbers?

 

  

 

 Michael Sausen

 

 RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage

 

 Do Not Archive

 

 Recent RV-10 Build Activity 

 <http://www.mykitlog.com/display_project.php?project_id=22>

 

 *From:* owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com> 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com 

 <mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com>] *On Behalf Of 

 *EAAINC(at)aol.com <mailto:EAAINC(at)aol.com>

 *Sent:* Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 *To:* rv10-list(at)matronics.com <mailto:rv10-list(at)matronics.com>

 *Subject:* Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

 

  

 

 I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 

 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  

 Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.

 

  

 

 Jan

 

 

 

 

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at 

 james(at)nextupventures.com <mailto:james(at)nextupventures.com> .

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 7:52 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

Anybody ever hear from the fellow in Ontario who is supposedly building

a '10 with Corvette power?



I still like my idea of two Thielert diesels driving counter-rotating

concentric-shaft props . . .



Along that line, I did ask 1.5 or 2 years ago at SnF the fellows from

SMA about their diesel.  $50K and they weren't too interested in

kitbuilders.  They have had some issues introducing that engine, too.



The "formerly known as Bombardier" V-Engine people might be a prospect

if they can get to the next step, too . . .



TDT

do not archive 

--

LloydDR(at)wernerco.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:01 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

See now, every time you post something bad you come back  with one of these. Very fair assessment, and should have been included the first  time...."GRIN" 

 You and I will have to get a beer at Oshkosh and really  hash it out!

 Dan



   From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder  (Michael Sausen)

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 11:24 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine  Specials

 

  

   No, Jan does deliver his engines, eventually, and currently has the only viable  alternative package out there.  He just tends to run things off the cuff  from what I’ve seen.  He probably needs to get a good business manager as  it seems like he is doing everything there.  Reminds me of another company  that has awesome products but no development controls in place and delivery  problems. 

  

   You have to keep in mind with his engines they are experimental and do not have  any version control.  He makes changes to the design on the fly as he sees  they are needed.  The engine he delivers one year are different from the  next because he always uses the current model year engine.  This isn’t  necessarily a bad thing but it does make it next to impossible to develop any  type of fleet history. 

  

   I gave his engine serious consideration.  The decision to go with a  Lycoming was based on a couple of things. 

  

<![if !supportLists]>1)       <![endif]>No  one could give me actual performance numbers for the engine.  All HP was  calculated. 

<![if !supportLists]>2)       <![endif]>There  was enough private feedback for me to be cautious. 

<![if !supportLists]>3)       <![endif]>This  was new engine package and a new redrive design. 

<![if !supportLists]>4)       <![endif]>Jan  would not give me a straight answer to any of my  questions. 

  

   I hope the package turns out to be a winner on the RV-10.  Right now there  are not enough choices! 

   

Michael  Sausen 

RV-10  #352 Working on Fuselage 

Do  Not Archive 

Recent RV-10 Build  Activity

   

From:  owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David  McNeill

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 9:29 AM

To:  rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine  Specials



 

   

Sounds like the USA  based version of Crossflow?

  	  Quote: 	
		        

----- Original    Message ----- 

      

From: RV Builder    (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net) 

      

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)    

      

Sent: Monday, July 17,    2006 7:16 AM

      

Subject: RE: RV10-List:    Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

      

 

   

     Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking    him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One    of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very    straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of    his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with    a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno    numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery,    do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find    plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One    of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine    delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the    “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete    either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten    him to take down the site.   

    

     My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due    diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming    after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine    and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list    they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off list    to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered and were    afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status    quo.   

    

     I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing    an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business    and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that    his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno    numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say    that the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I    have the full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who    wants to contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do    so.   

    

     James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I    strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the    only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can    keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t    be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a    Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be    much less.    

    

     Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.   

    

Michael    Sausen   

RV-10    #352 Working on Fuselage   

Do    Not Archive   

Recent RV-10 Build    Activity      

From:    owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com    [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James    Clark

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

To:    rv10-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru    Engine Specials

   

    

Micheal,



It seems from    your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.



For those that    are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without    some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the    case why not just say what the facts are? 



I am sure he is now    motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.



James

... no    dog in this hunt       

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael    Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)>    wrote:            

Wow, you are actually making    engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says    delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno    numbers?   

       

Michael    Sausen   

RV-10 #352 Working on    Fuselage   

Do Not    Archive   

Recent RV-10 Build    Activity

         

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of    EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00    AM

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: RV10-List:    Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

      

       

I have been asked to announce    that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they    will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for    December with 50% deposits.

      

 

      

Jan





   

-- 

This is an alternate email.    Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com)    .

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:07 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  Upset, not really.  No skin off my back either way.  Just want to make sure people are informed before risking $30k.  I look at the RV-10 list as an extended family and would hope people give me opinions, good or bad, about something I may be looking into.  It’s up to everyone to make their own decisions and no one should base anything on the ramblings of one person.  Just do the research.  

   

  I completely agree with what Dan said, other than the upset part.    

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

   

Not even close, Mike is just an upset individual when it comes to this subject.  

NSI and Crossflow are two that come to mind, Eggenfellner is in a whole different class, as he has actually delivered on his word, where Lance and others did not.  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email][mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com][/email]) On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials    

Sounds like the USA based version of Crossflow?  

   	  Quote: 	
		      

----- Original Message -----   

    

From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen) (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)   

    

To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)   

    

Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:16 AM  

    

Subject: RE: RV10-List: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

    

   

  

  Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten him to take down the site.  

   

  My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered and were afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.  

   

  I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I have the full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who wants to contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do so.  

   

  James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be much less.   

   

  Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:11 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

More like a dysfunctional family!  : )  

   

TDT

 do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 12:06 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

  Upset, not really.  No skin off my back either way.  Just want to make sure people are informed before risking $30k.  I look at the RV-10 list as an extended family and would hope people give me opinions, good or bad, about something I may be looking into.  It’s up to everyone to make their own decisions and no one should base anything on the ramblings of one person.  Just do the research.  

   

  I completely agree with what Dan said, other than the upset part.    

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

   

Not even close, Mike is just an upset individual when it comes to this subject.  

NSI and Crossflow are two that come to mind, Eggenfellner is in a whole different class, as he has actually delivered on his word, where Lance and others did not.  

       

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] ([email]%5bmailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com%5d[/email]) On Behalf Of David McNeill

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:29 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials    

Sounds like the USA based version of Crossflow?  

  [quote]    

---

rvbuilder(at)sausen.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

  Dan, I’m not tearing down anyone.  As you will see from all of my posts I think Jan does a good job.  I’m just stating facts.  The resale thing is pretty much a given.  You will have a smaller market reselling anything that is a one off and it is unlikely you will get the same value as what is considered standard.    I do find it interesting that below you say the performance numbers are right on for a Lycoming but then in the same paragraph you say that there are no performance numbers.  Hmmmm.  I whole heartedly expect someone to defend a purchase they made so I’m glad you and others are defending the package.  I went with a package that defends itself based on hundreds of thousands of running hours in aircraft.  Was it a good choice maybe, I would probably consider it a safe choice more than anything.  I’m not expecting any major unknowns which is what allows me to sleep well at night (pending any $*^&$#! AD’s).  For me the Egg Subie still had too many unknowns, not a bad thing if you really are behind experimenting, just not something I felt comfortable with when flying my family around.  

   

  Anyway, I am sincerely glad that 15 RV-10 builders have ordered his package and I anxiously await results and data from the first flying conversions.  This is the only way to get an alternative engine out there and I salute those willing to be true experimenters.  But in the mean time the only thing we can go by are the facts.  But get one thing straight, I am not slamming Jan as I don’t know the guy, I am not slamming his products as I do not own anything he has ever built.  I am questioning his business practices and his performance numbers.  You are right on the money with the other vendors having delivery problems.  The difference is they have much more product out there and their problems are the exception and not the rule.  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Do Not Archive  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R.

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:26 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

   

Here we go again....  

In all fairness to delivery dates, I can name every major vendor out there that has slipped dates. I have paid in full for my Chelton with harness and had the dates slipped on my harness from Direct to Avionics, and the last time I called they had not even finalized the package. Another one comes to mind is Tru-trak, I have had my servos on order before May, and have been told several times they would be shipped in the next few days, it is now July and I still do not have them. Does this make me mad? No, just disappointed, but I planned for the delays and in such I will get them and do not have to stress about it, and it will be the same with the engine.   

   

These small production numbers do not lend themselves well to predictable delivery times, and as such, we need to be tolerant of them and slips. One thing Jan has the ability to do well is communicate to his customers. He is forth coming with changes and allows us to be part of it. He has kept us informed of the steps along the way. It is an experimental engine, that is currently being designed, so yes, there will be delays. But all you have to do is call and he will give you his best guess, and that is what it is a guess at that time because unforeseen things come up, the PSRU change comes to mind. But these delays end up in a better product.   

     

As for the performance figures, they are right on with a Lycoming, and since this is being sold as a Lycoming replacement, I would say that it is living right up to expectations. Yes, the cost is the same in the beginning, but during a re-build, you will get a brand new engine, for less than it would cost to just do a top overhaul on a Lycoming.  

    

As for the RV10 the package is too new to tell on performance numbers, but once I am flying with it, I will have a FWF solution including a C/S speed prop, that in total costs significantly less than a New Lycoming FWF solution.   

    

   

    

I would like to know where you got your information on the resale numbers, because I am only aware of one sale with an E-Subaru, and that was for the same amount a standard would sell for. I am not aware on any other sales, but they could be out there.  

    

   

    

The end result is this, in the alternative engine market Jan is the leader for RV's. The other two have fallen flat on their face or have gone out of business. I have been following this engine package for years, and like what I see, and the progress that has been made. More importantly, I trust Jan and his ability to deliver on the engine, and if there are issues I am confident in his ability to fix them. This is the alternative engine market, and something's have to be taken on faith and your trust in the person.   

    

   

    

We all jumped on the RV10 bandwagon, even before performance numbers were truly known, and this was because we trust in Vans Aircraft and their commitment to deliver a good product. Many of us ordered before the kits had even begun being designed, but that was because we trusted they would make it and make it right, and the delivery times might have slipped, even as large as Vans is, they did slip on time in the early kits. I imagine back in the early 80's, people were having the same discussions about Van's and their ability to deliver, we just did not have the internet to pontificate about it.  

    

   

    

So in all reality, Mike get over it, the engine is not for you, we all know it is not for you, but you do not have to tear down another persons business, to make yourself feel better about your decision. All of the vendors have suffered in delivery times, just get over it.  

    

   

    

Dan Lloyd  

    

40269 (N289DT)  

    

Fuselage  

    

   

    

   

      

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV Builder (Michael Sausen)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 10:17 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  Oh boy do I have some history.  Jan booted me from his list for asking him to validate his ever changing HP numbers on his H6 for the -10.  One of his cheerleaders tried to publicly flog me and I responded with a very straightforward set of comments.  Jan then said he wouldn’t allow one of his friends to be publically humiliated but he apparently had no problem with a potential customer being so.  And no, he will never give dyno numbers.  He doesn’t feel it is necessary.  As far as non-delivery, do a search of websites of people that have his engines and you will find plenty of instances where he did not meet promised delivery dates.  One of his best supporters even received the supercharger well after the engine delivery (which was also late) pushing things out a year.  Oh and the “complete” firewall forward package apparently wasn’t so complete either.  I’m sure Jan knows who this is and he hopefully won’t threaten him to take down the site.  

   

  My comment below is no surprise to anyone who has done any type of due diligence on his offerings.  I made my decision to go with a Lycoming after spending a couple months talking to a dozen people flying Eggs engine and hanging around on his list.  Anytime someone spoke up on that list they were slammed back down.  I was contacted by several people off list to keep asking the hard questions because they had already ordered and were afraid they would be denied service for questioning the status quo.  

   

  I’m not anti-Eggenfeller as I still feel he has the best chance of producing an alternative engine package but it’s time for him to grow up his business and start PROVING the capabilities he touts.  I am also not saying that his engine does not meet the performance he claims, after all no one has dyno numbers on any of his engines so there is no way to tell.  I will say that the recent RVator article helps to shed some light on things.  I have the full history of the email conversations in question and anyone who wants to contact me off list for a copy is welcome to do so.  

   

  James, I’m guessing you already ordered one of his engines?  If not, I strongly suggest you do some serious background research.  In reality the only thing you get from his package is an alternative engine package that can keep MP to altitude.  The cost isn’t much different, the fuel flows won’t be much different, and the performance won’t be much different from a Lycoming.  What will be different is the resale value, expect it to be much less.   

   

  Oh ya, this dog hunts just fine.  

   

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity    

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Clark

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 8:28 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

   

Micheal,

 

 It seems from your post that you have an issue of some sort with Jan.

 

 For those that are considering his product, this post comes across as not being fair without some facts. It is as if you are accusing him of non-delivery. If that is the case why not just say what the facts are? 

 

 I am sure he is now motivated to give you the "dyno numbers" you request.

 

 James

 .. no dog in this hunt     

On 7/17/06, RV Builder (Michael Sausen) <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net (rvbuilder(at)sausen.net)> wrote:        

Wow, you are actually making engine delivery dates for once.  I'm shocked!  Oh wait, it says delivery in December, so probably not huh.  Now how about some dyno numbers?  

     

Michael Sausen  

RV-10 #352 Working on Fuselage  

Recent RV-10 Build Activity  

      

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com) [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com  (owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com)] On Behalf Of EAAINC(at)aol.com (EAAINC(at)aol.com)

 Sent: Monday, July 17, 2006 7:00 AM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com (rv10-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials  

  

  

    

     

I have been asked to announce that Eggenfellner Does have turbocharged 220HP RV-10 engines and that they will be on sale at Oshkosh this year.  Deliveries are available for December with 50% deposits.  

    

   

    

Jan  

  

  

  

  

  



  

 -- 

 This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com (james(at)nextupventures.com) .

Rick S.

Joined: 12 Feb 2006
Posts: 347
Location: Las Vegas

Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:42 am Post subject: Oshkosh Subaru Engine Specials

How bout them Redsox!!!

  

 Rick S.

 40185

  

 do not archive

_________________
Rick S.
RV-10
40185

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