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insulation support for crimps

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alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:12 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

Bob et al.



I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.



If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?



Alec

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 2:47 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

Alec:

The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement.  It has a bit of a safety requirement.

Using the Shrink Tubing sort of satisfies that safety requirement.

How well the safety issue is satisfied, I don't know.  

Would I do what you suggest?

YES, but, I would also consider the voltage, the amperage and the proximity to neighboring terminals.  

I would also be using a LOCK WASHER or a LOCK NUT on ALL terminals.

If you satisfy what YOU as the builder consider SAFE, then the project may just be safe.

Barry

On Mon, Apr 2, 2018 at 6:11 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

 

 Bob et al.

 

 I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.

 

 If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

 

 Alec

 

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 3:47 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

On 4/2/2018 5:11 PM, Alec Myers wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Bob et al.



 I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.



 If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?



 Alec

I wouldn't hesitate to use that technique on my plane (I've actually 
	


done it in a few places). It's worth mentioning that the wire should 

still be supported within a few inches of the connector, regardless of 

the terminator you use.



Whenever we get all wrapped up in state of the art perfection, it's 

worth remembering that there are planes still flying  with terminators 

on their wires that were applied before PIDG terminals existed; probably 

before crimp terminals existed at all. 



Charlie



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Eric Page

Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 245

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2018 6:56 pm Post subject: Re: insulation support for crimps

Alec,



Like the others, I wouldn't hesitate to use the method you described.  I would, however, use adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing.  It helps to keep moisture out of your crimps and it grips the wire insulation and terminal better than non-adhesive tubing.  I usually have the best luck with tubing that has higher shrink ratio; I generally buy 3:1 or 4:1, which gives more leeway for diameter mismatch.



Here's a Digi-Key search sorted for only adhesive-lined shrink tubing:



https://preview.tinyurl.com/y8e5xz9d



Eric

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:47 am Post subject: insulation support for crimps

At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com>



 Bob et al.



 I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.



 If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

 	


   Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex

   product I have here features both wire and insulation

   grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't

   offer insulation grip.



   Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly

   double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition

   of insulation support on terminations that don't already

   have it.  For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched

   circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight

   on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)

   or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the

   insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.



   This last technique has been used on countless terminations

   in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have

   passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 4:51 am Post subject: insulation support for crimps

At 05:46 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Alec:



 The insulated lug below a #10 AWG is a FAA requirement. 	


   Is this a requirement or a recommended practice.

   AC43-13, like DO160 are citations of acceptable

   shop practices but they are not requirements.



   Citing these documents can relive you of the

   task to justify your alternative practice

   but they do not prohibit alteratives.



 

 

   Bob . . .

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 03, 2018 2:18 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite” and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.



On Apr 3, 2018, at 08:46, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

  At 05:11 PM 4/2/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>



 Bob et al.



 I understand from reading lots of sources that small wires crimped into, for example, ring terminals, should have insulation support, like that provided by PIDG brand insulated crimps.



 If I use an uninsulated crimp like a Molex “krimptite” and I oversleeve with heat shrink tubing around the barrel of the crimp and extending over a half inch of the wire insulation, does that make up adequately for the lack of other insulation support?

 	


   Which Molex product are you citing? All the Molex

   product I have here features both wire and insulation

   grip features. I'm unaware of any product that doesn't

   offer insulation grip.



   Having said that, yes . . . heat shrink . . . particularly

   double-wall adhesive heat shrink is suited for the addition

   of insulation support on terminations that don't already

   have it.  For example, when bringing a wire onto an etched

   circuit board I will either bring the insulation down tight

   on the surface and spot the junction with E6000 (or similar)

   or better yet, crimp a d-sub mail onto the wire, support the

   insulation with DWA shrink the solder the pin to the board.



   This last technique has been used on countless terminations

   in my experience for 40 years. Assemblies so treated have

   passed the most severe DO160 shake-n-bake tests with no problems.



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:41 am Post subject: insulation support for crimps

At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  It’s not something you’ve specifically recommended: google for “krimptite” and you’ll see some examples of to what I was referring.



 	


  Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the

  spectrum of Waldom termnials



 https://goo.gl/XKMA71

 

  The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom

  of the features ladder. No insulation grip,

  rolled, non-welded wire grips.



  Next step up through the product line adds

  insulation grips to the non-welded

  terminals.



  Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals

  specifically designed for solid wire and wire

  grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of

  wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.



  Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex

  offering to higher performance vehicular

  applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents

  to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others

  designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928



  The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.



  There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated

  ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,

  ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are

  expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental

  temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy

  insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals

  are not expected to perform under vibration.



  One does not save much money with the use of terminals

  outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated

  Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.  



  Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies

  with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar

  applications.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 

   Bob . . .

973ee6.jpg

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alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:21 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

HI Bob



 	  Quote: 	
		  > M25036/T7928 


	


What are these?



A



On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Itâs not something youâve specifically recommended: google for âkrimptiteâ and youâll see some examples of to what I was referring.

 


	


 Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the

 spectrum of Waldom termnials



https://goo.gl/XKMA71



 The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom

 of the features ladder. No insulation grip,

 rolled, non-welded wire grips.



 Next step up through the product line adds

 insulation grips to the non-welded

 terminals.



 Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals

 specifically designed for solid wire and wire

 grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of

 wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.



 Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex

 offering to higher performance vehicular

 applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents

 to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others

 designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928



 The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.



 There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated

 ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,

 ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are

 expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental

 temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy

 insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals

 are not expected to perform under vibration.



 One does not save much money with the use of terminals

 outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated

 Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.  



 Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies

 with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar

 applications.



<973ee6.jpg>



  Bob . . .

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:43 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

Google is (sometimes) our friend:https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



  	          		Virus-free. www.avast.com 		 	 [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2][/url]



On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

 

 HI Bob

 

 >> M25036/T7928

 

 What are these?

 

 A

 

 On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 

 At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:

 > Itâ€™s not something youâ€™ve specifically recommended: google for â€œkrimptiteâ€  and youâ€™ll see some examples of to what I was referring.

 >

 

  Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the

  spectrum of Waldom termnials

 

 https://goo.gl/XKMA71

 

  The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom

  of the features ladder. No insulation grip,

  rolled, non-welded wire grips.

 

  Next step up through the product line adds

  insulation grips to the non-welded

  terminals.

 

  Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals

  specifically designed for solid wire and wire

  grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of

  wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

 

  Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex

  offering to higher performance vehicular

  applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents

  to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others

  designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

 

  The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

 

  There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated

  ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,

  ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are

  expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental

  temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy

  insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals

  are not expected to perform under vibration.

 

  One does not save much money with the use of terminals

  outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated

  Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

 

  Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies

  with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar

  applications.

 

 <973ee6.jpg>

 

   Bob . . .

 

 

 

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alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

Ah… they’re products? It sounded like they were a specification.



On Apr 5, 2018, at 5:42 PM, Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com> wrote:



Google is (sometimes) our friend:

https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036&oq=M25036&aqs=chrome..69i57&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



	Virus-free. www.avast.com



On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 4:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com> wrote:




HI Bob



 	  Quote: 	
		  > M25036/T7928


	


What are these?



A



On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Itâ€™s not something youâ€™ve specifically recommended: google for â€œkrimptiteâ€  and youâ€™ll see some examples of to what I was referring.




	


 Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the

 spectrum of Waldom termnials



https://goo.gl/XKMA71



 The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom

 of the features ladder. No insulation grip,

 rolled, non-welded wire grips.



 Next step up through the product line adds

 insulation grips to the non-welded

 terminals.



 Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals

 specifically designed for solid wire and wire

 grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of

 wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.



 Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex

 offering to higher performance vehicular

 applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents

 to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others

 designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928



 The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.



 There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated

 ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,

 ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are

 expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental

 temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy

 insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals

 are not expected to perform under vibration.



 One does not save much money with the use of terminals

 outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated

 Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.



 Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies

 with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar

 applications.



<973ee6.jpg>



  Bob . . .



====================================

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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

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          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

====================================

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:03 pm Post subject: insulation support for crimps

Alec:

Here is a link to what they are:

https://www.google.com/search?q=M25036%2FT7928&rlz=1C1GGRV_enUS749US749&oq=M25036%2FT7928&aqs=chrome.69i57j69i58.1941j0j8&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8



Barry

On Thu, Apr 5, 2018 at 5:20 PM, Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

 

 HI Bob

 

 >> M25036/T7928

 

 What are these?

 

 A

 

 On Apr 4, 2018, at 11:40 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 

 At 05:18 PM 4/3/2018, you wrote:

 > Itâ€™s not something youâ€™ve specifically recommended: google for â€œkrimptiteâ€  and youâ€™ll see some examples of to what I was referring.

 >

 

  Okay.  Found this .pdf that speaks to the

  spectrum of Waldom termnials

 

 https://goo.gl/XKMA71

 

  The generic Krimptite devices are the bottom

  of the features ladder. No insulation grip,

  rolled, non-welded wire grips.

 

  Next step up through the product line adds

  insulation grips to the non-welded

  terminals.

 

  Next are uninsulated but more robust terminals

  specifically designed for solid wire and wire

  grips intended for facilitating 'pulls' of

  wire thorough a conduit. Stationary applications.

 

  Next step up are the AviKrimps . . . the Molex

  offering to higher performance vehicular

  applications (like airplanes). These are equivalents

  to Tyco-Amp PIDG, Panduit PN series and others

  designed to the spirit and intent of M25036/T7928

 

  The next steps up the ladder are pretty self explanatory.

 

  There's a 'high temperature' version of the un=insulated

  ring terminals designed for use in products like heaters,

  ovens, furnaces, etc where even companion wires are

  expected to stand off extra ordinary environmental

  temperatures . . . temperatures too high for legacy

  insulation grips but un-necessary since the terminals

  are not expected to perform under vibration.

 

  One does not save much money with the use of terminals

  outside the bubble of M25036/T7928 products. The uninsulated

  Krimptite devises would reside outside that bubble.

 

  Here's a quick run-down on acme of terminal technologies

  with about 80 years of history on aircraft and similar

  applications.

 

 



<973ee6.jpg>

 

   Bob . . .

 

 

 

 ====================================

  -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ====================================

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ====================================

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ====================================

 b Site -

           -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ====================================

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