Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

twvandusen

Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Clark Fork Idaho

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:58 am Post subject: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

I need some help from the group.



In June last year I purchased a CJ6A from an individual in Canada.  After receiving some flight training we flew it down to Spokane to be near my DAR.  I then began the process to obtain a U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.  The ATF denied my Form 6 (Request to Import) stating a regulation that says that the U.S. does not allow the importation of Chinese military equipment.  I argued with them but lost (there are currently 132 Nanchangs on the FAA Aircraft Registry).  Next I went to my DAR/MIDO for some help.  The Advisory Circular which addresses the application process states that the application MUST be accompanied by an approved ATF Form 6 whereas the actual regulation states that it SHOULD be accompanied by the Form 6.  We are all aware of the difference in aviation circles between MUST and SHOULD.  I thought that I had a case especially when you consider that the Advisory Circular is just that, advisory.  My MIDO (Seattle) sees if differently and has told me that they won't approve if I submit.  Here's my question for the group; Is there a DAR/MIDO in another region which would be willing to issue and AWC based on the SHOULD logic?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thom

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

hess737(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:05 am Post subject: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

Thom

I donâ€™t know all the import rules but I do know the Yaks and CJs are exempt from export control due to being under a certain hp and piston. Iâ€™d think Doug Sapp in Omsk, WA would be a great local source of import knowledge. 



Richard Hess

C 404-964-4885



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 18, 2018, at 10:58 AM, twvandusen <twvandusen(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I need some help from the group.

 

 In June last year I purchased a CJ6A from an individual in Canada.  After receiving some flight training we flew it down to Spokane to be near my DAR.  I then began the process to obtain a U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.  The ATF denied my Form 6 (Request to Import) stating a regulation that says that the U.S. does not allow the importation of Chinese military equipment.  I argued with them but lost (there are currently 132 Nanchangs on the FAA Aircraft Registry).  Next I went to my DAR/MIDO for some help.  The Advisory Circular which addresses the application process states that the application MUST be accompanied by an approved ATF Form 6 whereas the actual regulation states that it SHOULD be accompanied by the Form 6.  We are all aware of the difference in aviation circles between MUST and SHOULD.  I thought that I had a case especially when you consider that the Advisory Circular is just that, advisory.  My MIDO (Seattle) sees if differently and has told me that they won!

 't approve if I submit.  Here's my question for the group; Is there a DAR/MIDO in another region which would be willing to issue and AWC based on the SHOULD logic?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thom

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479424#479424

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

Dawg

Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 355

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:06 am Post subject: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

Ask the atf to show you in writing the regulation or directive. If they canâ€™t call the supervisor or your Senator. A DAR cannot fix an ATF problem. Only an FAA problem.

Need a form 6 and 6A.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 18, 2018, at 23:58, twvandusen <twvandusen(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 I need some help from the group.

 

 In June last year I purchased a CJ6A from an individual in Canada.  After receiving some flight training we flew it down to Spokane to be near my DAR.  I then began the process to obtain a U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.  The ATF denied my Form 6 (Request to Import) stating a regulation that says that the U.S. does not allow the importation of Chinese military equipment.  I argued with them but lost (there are currently 132 Nanchangs on the FAA Aircraft Registry).  Next I went to my DAR/MIDO for some help.  The Advisory Circular which addresses the application process states that the application MUST be accompanied by an approved ATF Form 6 whereas the actual regulation states that it SHOULD be accompanied by the Form 6.  We are all aware of the difference in aviation circles between MUST and SHOULD.  I thought that I had a case especially when you consider that the Advisory Circular is just that, advisory.  My MIDO (Seattle) sees if differently and has told me that they won!

 't approve if I submit.  Here's my question for the group; Is there a DAR/MIDO in another region which would be willing to issue and AWC based on the SHOULD logic?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thom

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479424#479424

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

_________________
Dawg

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:48 am Post subject: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

Call the EAA and ask for their Govt. Relations Representative.



Do not argue or debate with FAA or other Govt. agencies at the local level.   There is no doubt that they have the regulations they quoted to you and believe they are correct in what they are doing.   All you will do is piss them off and they will dig their heels in even further.   You need either a good lawyer ($$$) or someone else to represent you.  The EAA has a solid history of doing just that.



Would also not hurt to become a member, if you are not already.   The EAA's whole reason for being is to support Experimental Aircraft owners, and we should support them as they support us.   My opinion anyway.



Mark

They go directly to D.C. with issues like this.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 18, 2018, at 23:58, twvandusen <twvandusen(at)gmail.com> wrote:



 



 I need some help from the group.



 In June last year I purchased a CJ6A from an individual in Canada.  After receiving some flight training we flew it down to Spokane to be near my DAR.  I then began the process to obtain a U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.  The ATF denied my Form 6 (Request to Import) stating a regulation that says that the U.S. does not allow the importation of Chinese military equipment.  I argued with them but lost (there are currently 132 Nanchangs on the FAA Aircraft Registry).  Next I went to my DAR/MIDO for some help.  The Advisory Circular which addresses the application process states that the application MUST be accompanied by an approved ATF Form 6 whereas the actual regulation states that it SHOULD be accompanied by the Form 6.  We are all aware of the difference in aviation circles between MUST and SHOULD.  I thought that I had a case especially when you consider that the Advisory Circular is just that, advisory.  My MIDO (Seattle) sees if differently and has told me that they w!

 on!
	


 	  Quote: 	
		   't approve if I submit.  Here's my question for the group; Is there a DAR/MIDO in another region which would be willing to issue and AWC based on the SHOULD logic?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thom





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479424#479424

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

threein60

Joined: 04 Feb 2016
Posts: 51
Location: Everett Wa

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

I would do this in Pheonix az.  The FSDO down there does this all the time.   I have a cj in the Seattle area and engaged the FAA to rewrite my operating limits.  It was such a hassle and they clearly didn't want to help.  I called the phx FSDO and they did it in less than a week.  

Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

 

  	  Quote: 	
		    On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 8:11, twvandusen

<twvandusen(at)gmail.com> wrote:

   --> Yak-List message posted by: "twvandusen" <twvandusen(at)gmail.com (twvandusen(at)gmail.com)>



I need some help from the group.



In June last year I purchased a CJ6A from an individual in Canada.  After receiving some flight training we flew it down to Spokane to be near my DAR.  I then began the process to obtain a U.S. Airworthiness Certificate.  The ATF denied my Form 6 (Request to Import) stating a regulation that says that the U.S. does not allow the importation of Chinese military equipment.  I argued with them but lost (there are currently 132 Nanchangs on the FAA Aircraft Registry).  Next I went to my DAR/MIDO for some help.  The Advisory Circular which addresses the application process states that the application MUST be accompanied by an approved ATF Form 6 whereas the actual regulation states that it SHOULD be accompanied by the Form 6.  We are all aware of the difference in aviation circles between MUST and SHOULD.  I thought that I had a case especially when you consider that the Advisory Circular is just that, advisory.  My MIDO (Seattle) sees if differently and has told me that they won!



 't approve if I submit.  Here's my question for the group; Is there a DAR/MIDO in another region which would be willing to issue and AWC based on the SHOULD logic?  Your thoughts would be greatly appreciated.  Thom



Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=479424#479424







http://forums.matronics.com



http://wi                            -Matt Dralle, List Admin.



t="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

HawkerPilot2015

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 503

Posted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:17 pm Post subject: Re: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

I know a couple of the dudes in PHX and as the other poster said, they are solid! We have a shit ton of these things (and -52's) down here and they know them.

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

twvandusen

Joined: 20 Sep 2017
Posts: 11
Location: Clark Fork Idaho

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2018 8:38 pm Post subject: Re: FAA/ATF Refusal to Grant CJ Airworthiness Certificate

I just wanted to say "thanks" to all of you who responded to my post.  I appreciate your thoughts and comments.  I'll follow up and hopefully we'll have another CJ flying in the U.S. very soon.

- The Matronics Yak-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Yak-List

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Yak-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum