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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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 Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:16 am Post subject: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200 |
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Roland, If you had 5500 rpm at just over 20 litres per hour you were clearly not usung full power which from memory consumes something fairly close to 40 litres/ hr. That all suggests that your propeller is not 'man enough' for the thin air at 20,000 ft. That comes as no surprise to me as my previous Woodcomp SR3000W prop set to achieve 5650rpm max static at ground level, and a respectable climb rate if stuck in max course pitch (also at low altitude) would overspeed at 10,000ft if I applied 100% power, and also incidentally exceed Vne TAS. There are two questions that spring to mind: Why would you want to be up at 20,000 ft? And why not have a manifold pressure gauge, which the LAA among others consider an important aid to 914 engine management?
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-04-19 13:44, Roland wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de (schmidtroland(at)web.de)>
Hi Europa Folks,
maybe some of you (especially in the US?) with a Rotax 914-powered Trigear can help me evaluate the high altitude performance of my bird.
It is an XS TG 914 (no Intercooler) with Airmaster CS-prop. On two flights yesterday (DA around 20.000 ft - ISA+10°C) at a mass of around 560kg (1235lbs) my Europa did 105KIAS at WOT and 5500RPM (I have no MP-gauge). Although still climbing with around 500FPM at 75KIAS I instantly loose altitude when transiting to Level flight and handling feels quite a bit "spongy".
Erich Trombley posted a picture of his EFIS schowing 126KIAS with his Mono N28ET at a DA of 19500ft at 5310RPM.
The fuel consumption up there was only about 21 l/h (5,5 GPH), so that my assumption is simply, that the 914 can't deliver the appropriate power for the heavier and more draggy Trigear for better performance.
At FL100 at MCP and a FF of 26 l/h (7 GPH) I see 130KIAS.
Any idea what to expect up there at FL200?
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at F |
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Hi David,
I think the prop (broad blades)is quite okay for the job as it's easy capable of holding 5500RPM at full throttle.
The 914 delivers 100HP (MCP) up to 16000ft. Why fly up there? Well, it's more economical with the Turbo and sometimes you can make use of favourable tailwinds.
Of course you are correct in suggesting a MP-gauge - I'm thinking of replacing the VDO boost pressure gauge for it.
Thanks and regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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rampil
Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 870
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:43 am Post subject: Re: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at F |
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Is there a reason you are reporting Kias?
TAS is a more rational measurement for
those altitudes for performance and comparison.
Remember KIAS falls with altitude and TAS increases
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Roland
Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE
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| Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Re: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at F |
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Hello Ira,
my setup is still lacking an OAT-gauge, thus no TAS-indication on the EFIS. KIAS is just what I read on the ASI. 105 KIAS result in about 148 KTAS at 20500 ft DA.
A fuelburn of 5,5 GPH pretty much matches 75% power for the 914. That's about what is left at that altitude. Plenty for the sleek Mono, but just about enough for the heavier and draggy Trigear.
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Sun Apr 22, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200 |
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Roland,
12AY has a trigear speed kit, has a fairly smooth finish, a stock 914 early version with the old TCU (at the time), no intercooler or modifications. Equipped with OAT, Fuel Flow, Fuel pressure, MP, EGT and the standard pressure and temp instruments, I am pretty sure of the
Any club of a prop on a 914 will go to 20,000 and hold altitude at 5000 RPM. Even at very high OATs I tested at in Florida in July of 2015.
Back with my old TCU and carbs with some carb problems I did the following with a 64 inch Warp Drive:
At my 100% stop at 31 inches and 5500 RPM I indicated at 18K 118KIAS and about 160 KTAS with a warp drive FF 6.7.
Pulled back to 5000 RPM and 28 inches I indicated 105 at 140KTAS FF in the 6.2 range.
Fuel flows you give are suspect. The fact you have no Fuel Pressure, OAT and MP reported, I believe you should make sure your engine is doing as advertised.
If I can maintain 100 KIAS up to 18K with 4800 and 28 inches, (I’ve done it a few times loafing around) I suspect your plane should also. The Whirlwind and Sensenich blades are better than the Warp Drives but as I said above, any club of a prop can do 20,000.
Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Roland <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 8:44:09 AM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Europa Trigear with Rotax 914 running out of steam at FL200?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Roland" <schmidtroland(at)web.de>
Hi Europa Folks,
maybe some of you (especially in the US?) with a Rotax 914-powered Trigear can help me evaluate the high altitude performance of my bird.
It is an XS TG 914 (no Intercooler) with Airmaster CS-prop. On two flights yesterday (DA around 20.000 ft - ISA+10°C) at a mass of around 560kg (1235lbs) my Europa did 105KIAS at WOT and 5500RPM (I have no MP-gauge). Although still climbing with around 500FPM at 75KIAS I instantly loose altitude when transiting to Level flight and handling feels quite a bit "spongy".
Erich Trombley posted a picture of his EFIS schowing 126KIAS with his Mono N28ET at a DA of 19500ft at 5310RPM.
The fuel consumption up there was only about 21 l/h (5,5 GPH), so that my assumption is simply, that the 914 can't deliver the appropriate power for the heavier and more draggy Trigear for better performance.
At FL100 at MCP and a FF of 26 l/h (7 GPH) I see 130KIAS.
Any idea what to expect up there at FL200?
Regards
Roland
PH-ZTI
XS TG 914
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