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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:37 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 6:48 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.



On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

    -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:04 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Good timing Art!



In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.

http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9



My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

bob.verwey(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:27 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

My understanding is that the nylon is good in the engine compartment...the PVC not so much



On Sat, 28 Apr 2018, 4:52 PM Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

My Cessna has lots of (as far as I know) original PVC insulated crimps.



On Apr 28, 2018, at 10:36, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but.. I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ron228rj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.

Ron



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:44 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

   Folks,



  I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 



  Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?



  This seems acceptable to me. What do you think? 	
 



 I would invite the readers to review this article I

 posted a few years back that reviews the legacy

 design goals and properties of materials for what

 was then, a "mil spec'd" style of solderless wire

 termination:



 https://goo.gl/Fq95MU 



 Major features in the PIDG style connectors are

 the terminal body (part that grips strands of wire),

 insulator (provides some protection of the assembly

 and helps identify the terminal by its color) and

 a thin, metallic sleeve inside the insulator that

 is formed down against the termnial barrel -AND-

 insulation of the mated wire to provide insulation

 support for resistance to breakage under vibration.



 Here's the TE_Connectivity/AMP drawing for a PIDG



 https://goo.gl/66QGz4 



 here's the same size terminal in Plasti-Grip



 https://goo.gl/ZQaKRV

 

 Without insulation support, the strands are at-risk

 for vibration fatigue and separation. Here'a

 an interesting work-around. 



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



 This Electronic Ignition, dual feed, diode isolated

 distribution bus has multiple connections just waiting

 to fail.



 

 [img]cid:.1[/img]

  

 This view shows four, plasti-grip terminals

 that were either (1) improperly applied or

 (2) had already regained their as-manufactured

 shape due to temperature cycling. This was

 a 'hands off' inspection of the wreckage

 so I was unable examine more closely.



 [img]cid:.2[/img]



 

 Here's an example of lapses in craftsmanship for a breaker/bus-bar

 assembly salvaged from a vintage Piper. We cannot know the time-in-

 service for the variety of terminations seen here, but the PIDG

 terminals demonstrate a decided advantage over the Plasti-Grip.



 [img]cid:.3[/img][/b]



 At 09:54 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

 Good timing Art!



 In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.



  http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9 



 My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.



    I was unable to get the video to load. I would really

    like to see the document on FAA paper that suggests

    interchangeability for the PIDG vs Plasti-Grip.

    I would be surprised that any movement across technologies

    recommended/mandated by the FAA would translate 'downward'.

    

    Butt splices in runs of wire tied to wire bundles can

    be spliced with much less expense (and physical bulk

    to the bundle) with this technique:



 https://goo.gl/FMCY9K 



    Having offered all the above, I will close with the

    notion that a Plasti-Grip splice tied into a wire

    bundle is at VERY LOW RISK for lost of conductors

    due to vibration because of the support offered by

    OTHER wires in the bundle. But be wary of non-PIDG

    terminations for wires taken to studs and tabe.



 [/b]

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:53 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects. 	


   Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the

   any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips

   under the plastic?



 

 

   Bob . . .

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:58 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Here too. Thanks for saying something. I'm all set now.



Â Â Â  -- Art Z.



Sent from my phone. Please excuse brevity and bizarre typos.

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 11:17 AM Ron Springer <ron228rj(at)gmail.com (ron228rj(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects.

Ron



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 10:42 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ron228rj(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:06 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Nope!



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018, 12:57 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects. 	


 Â  Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the

 Â  any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips

 Â  under the plastic?



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:09 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

At 12:04 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:



  	  Quote: 	
		  Nope! 	


   Well then . . . there you go . . .



 

 

   Bob . . .

arcticarrow(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:24 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years Iâ€™ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others.  My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation.  Iâ€™ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp.  Theyâ€™re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Good timing Art!

In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.



http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9



My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,



I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 



Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?



This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?



    -- Art Z.



-- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:39 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Bob,

That second picture looks like the crimps were improperly applied, with no insulation crimp at all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal wonâ€™t help if you donâ€™t put it on properly.



On Apr 28, 2018, at 13:22, Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years Iâ€™ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others.  My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation.  Iâ€™ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp.  Theyâ€™re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places.

Bernie 	  Quote: 	
		  On Apr 28, 2018, at 6:54 AM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Good timing Art!

In this week's Hint for Homebuilders on the EAA newsletter, Dick Koehler specifically mentions that while the nylon ones are better, the FAA says both are acceptable.



http://www.eaavideo.org/detail/video/5776799595001/?mkt_tok=eyJpIjoiWWpobE9UQTJObVk1TTJabSIsInQiOiJpeGVMOU9DWWg1Vks0Z0QwbFlLQjdvcjZiSCtEVkJpdW1Fd2psYU9hL1Z4dVREUTJYa3FmUEdBMjVoRWNzWnBkZ2JNQTBPYVVQYXVwVjZsOGZ3UjhKcWl3UGJaNWJ3ZXEvc3FnVnA2N0V1Y21NL2tjV21kUTV6bURmVWorZ0pUdCJ9



My aircraft is completely full of PVC connectors. I replace them with nylon whenever I install or repair anything but 30 years later the PVC ones are still problem free.



On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 7:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,



I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot. 



Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?



This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?



    -- Art Z.



-- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 11:40 am Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

At 12:37 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Bob,



 That second picture looks like the crimps were improperly applied, with no insulation crimp at all. Even the most highbrow PIDG terminal wonâ€™t help if you donâ€™t put it on properly. 	


   You may be correct . . . on both counts.  I didn't

   have the time or charter to investigate this airplane's

   condition in all respects. I was to focus

   on the chain of events that killed the engine.



   Anecdotal observations of lapses in craftsmanship

   were numerous.



 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:34 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years Iâ€™ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others.  My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation.  Iâ€™ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp.  Theyâ€™re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places. 	


   Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt

   splices are a special breed of cat.  I've

   messed with 'em here and been impressed

   of their value . . . with reservations.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



   None of my rachet-handled tools produced

   adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED

   splice. Doubling the stranding back helps

   a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,

   hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much

   'mash' on it as you can with your bare

   hands.



   Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test

   on a sample installation. You should find

   it difficult to part the splice with your

   bare hands . . . and it's always good if

   the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"

   at the grip.



 

   Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The

   plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after

   the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time

   of shrinking . . . as see above.



   The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the

   products I tested also featured dual wall

   shrink . . . in internal layer of melting

   sealant. 



 

   Bob . . .

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art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:50 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 11:52 AM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:01 AM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  My Home Depot actually has some Tyco Electronics nylon connectors, which I have used on my plane. But, I am not sure if they have them for butt connectors. They definitely have nylon disconnects. 	


 Â  Nylon vs. PVC is not the magic difference . . . do the

 Â  any of their offerings feature metallic insulation grips

 Â  under the plastic?



	


â€‹â€‹

â€‹Bob,

The Tyco connectors that I found have a metal sleeve, an adhesive layer, and a plastic insulating layer. Crimp then heat to melt the adhesive and shrink the insulation. The size is just right for the pigtails on my landing lights and the wires in the harnesses that i built for the wingsâ€‹. I think that these connectors will be a good solution for this particular application.

â€‹

Cheers,

Â  Â  -- Art Z.â€‹



-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:57 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than the red ones, theyâ€™re yellow, and for 22-26 gauge wire. Iâ€™ve never seen them in the flesh, and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist.

Then there are the â€œenvironmental butt splicesâ€ with the uninsulste copper core and the slide over heat-shrink sleeves, from $Raychem$.



On Apr 28, 2018, at 16:33, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

  At 12:22 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  This electrical connection subject is very interesting to me because over the years Iâ€™ve seen several failures on my work as well as that of others.  My son got me onto crimp connectors with heat shrink insulation.  Iâ€™ve been using them for about 5 years now without any failures on all kinds of installations, cars, boats and aircraft. The insulation once shrunk provides support for the wire and besides insulation seals against moisture getting into the crimp.  Theyâ€™re available at Polar Wire in Anchorage, AK and probably many other places. 	


   Yes, the heat-shrink, pre-insulated butt

   splices are a special breed of cat.  I've

   messed with 'em here and been impressed

   of their value . . . with reservations.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



   None of my rachet-handled tools produced

   adequate crimps on 22AWG wire for a RED

   splice. Doubling the stranding back helps

   a lot. I ultimately settled on my legacy,

   hardware-store crimp too . . . put as much

   'mash' on it as you can with your bare

   hands.



   Play with them a bit . . . do a pull test

   on a sample installation. You should find

   it difficult to part the splice with your

   bare hands . . . and it's always good if

   the wire 'breaks' as opposed to "pulls out"

   at the grip.



 

   Of course you only crimp the wire-grip. The

   plastic jacket will look pretty beat up after

   the crimps . . . but smooth nicely at the time

   of shrinking . . . as see above.



   The jacket become quite rigid . . . and the

   products I tested also featured dual wall

   shrink . . . in internal layer of melting

   sealant. 



 

   Bob . . .

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BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 4:07 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Hi Art:

The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . .Â  Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.Â Â 

You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.

I almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a PRT!Â Â 

Not that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.

So, the reason why NOT is:Â  Very Caustic Fumes are produced when the PVC Burns.

The answer to that is:Â  Don't crash!





Barry

On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,

I am out of nylon butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of Home Depot.Â 

Help me figure this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in the sun in a parking lot)?

This seems acceptable to me. What do you think?

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/"If I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I am only for myself, what am I? And if not now, when?" Hillel

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:06 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

Barry,

       

       A randomly selected list for your perusal:

       http://www.nationalwire.com/pdf/cat01_elect_hookup_wire.pdf

       

       On the subject of Very Caustic Fumes: Close yourself up in a       closet & burn some Tefzel insulation. Report back (if able).

       

       Charlie

       

       

       On 4/28/2018 7:06 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                  Hi           Art:

         

         

         The           reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . .Â            Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.Â Â 

         You           are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes.

         I           almost said that PVC is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have           seen crazy things done like a PRT!Â Â 

         Not           that a PRT is crazy just that they used PVC.

         So,           the reason why NOT is:Â  Very Caustic Fumes are produced when           the PVC Burns.

         

         

         The           answer to that is:Â  Don't crash!

         

         

         

         

         Barry

         

         

         

         

       

       

         On Sat, Apr 28, 2018 at 10:36 AM, Art           Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)>           wrote:

            	  Quote: 	
		                              Folks,

               

               

               I am out of nylon                 butt connectors. I know that I am not supposed to use                 PVC connectors in an airplane but... I need connectors                 for the landing light wires, out in the wings. I can                 grab a few PVC butt connectors in the aviation aisle of                 Home Depot.Â 

               

               

               Help me figure                 this out, please. There are a whole lot of PVC                 connectors in cars. Lifetime on the order of 10-20                 years, maybe more. Shouldn't I see similar lifetime                 inside a wing? Probably more since it will be exposed to                 cold but not as much heat (as a car regularly cooking in                 the sun in a parking lot)?

               

               

               This seems                 acceptable to me. What do you think?

               

               

               Â  Â  -- Art Z.

                                  

                   

                   -- 

                                                                                        https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/                                                      "If                             I am not for myself, who is for me? And if I                             am only for myself, what am I? And if not                             now, when?" Hillel

                         

                       

                     

                   

                 

           	
         

         

       

     	
     

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:45 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

At 04:55 PM 4/28/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  There is a smaller size of insulated crimp than the red ones, theyâ€™re yellow, and for 22-26 gauge wire. Iâ€™ve never seen them in the flesh, and tooling appears to be scarce and pensive, but I believe they exist. 	


   Yes they do, here's one example.



 https://goo.gl/bEKHco 



   Even have a t-head tool that I'd make someone

   a really good deal on. Needed it for one

   task about 15 years ago.



 



 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:10 pm Post subject: PVC vs Nylon Connectors

The reason why PVC is not used - - - supposedly not used, . . .  Goes back to PVC jacketed wire.  

 You are not supposed to use PVC jacketed wire either, in planes. I almost said that PVC

 is NEVER used in aircraft but, I have seen crazy things done like a PRT! Not that a PRT

 is crazy just that they used PVC. So, the reason why NOT is:  Very Caustic Fumes are

 produced when the PVC Burns.



  All the times I worked in Cessna factories (62-

  69) the single and twin lines were wired with

  Mil-W-16878 type BN wire. Nylon jacket over PVC.



  The wire is still made and can be used to repair

  said airplanes as it is the same material as called

  out on the airplane's type certificate.



  This was the first step up from varnish over cotton

  over rubber that wired the first electrical systems

  in the C140, C170, et. als. The spec number escapes

  me at the moment but that wire too is still made

  and can be used to repair an airplane that calls

  it out on the drawings.



  Tefzel (and some close cousins like Raychem's Spec

  55) were just starting to be pitched in Wichita

  about 1982 . . . I recall discussions at Lear concerning

  upgrading to these new, higher temperature, more

  chemically resistant insulations. The 22759 wire

  was export controlled so we were leaning toward

  Spec 55 when Lear negotiated the export license

  and Teflon became the insulation of choice.



  I don't know where that PVC toxicity meme originated.

  I don't recall discussing it at Lear . . . the big

  whoop for Tefzel was the wider operating temperature

  range and lighter weight. To be sure, Tefzel smoke

  is not from Marlboro Country! Our major concern from

  the airframe perspective was flame characteristics.

  Would it self extinguish and was it free of tendencies

  to drop flaming balls of molten plastic.



  Tefzel was really good in that regard, PVC not

  so much . . . Nonetheless, nylon over PVC was the

  wire of choice in tens of thousands of Wichita

  airframes and I suspect as many more elsewhere.



 



 

   Bob . . .

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