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draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:17 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Ladies, gents, and fellow fliers-

As the ADS-B deadline slowly approaches, I'm considering the Garmin GTX-335 system for my Nanchang CJ6.

Have any of you used this system before in a CJ?

Thoughts & advice? Successes? Things to watch out for?

Thanks all-

Justin Drafts

N280NC

Clouddog

Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 119
Location: Lebanon, TN

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:46 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Justin.That's the one I'm leaning towards since I have a new Garmin radio although there is no connection or usage between the two.Â 

I have a friend that just install his on a Chipmunk and he used two wires. Power and ground. It comes with GPS Antenna, wiring and rack. I will get the encoder for $249Â that's about the size of a quarter and it snaps into the back of the rack and connects to transponder when you slide it into tray. The only cable you need is the connection from xponder to hocky puck antenna and most places will make it for you (at a cost). I'm mounting my antenna on the rear turtle deck as opposed to the center one between the cockpits. Of course the 345 had ADS-B in but it's another $2000. I already have that in my aircraft.Â 

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 11:21 AM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Ladies, gents, and fellow fliers-

As the ADS-B deadline slowly approaches, I'm considering the Garmin GTX-335 system for my Nanchang CJ6.

Have any of you used this system before in a CJ?

Thoughts & advice? Successes? Things to watch out for?

Thanks all-

Justin Drafts

N280NC

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:12 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

This is a topic I've also  been thinking about for quite some time.   I have to disagree (just slightly because I am a known nit-picker) that all it requires is two wires, power and ground.  Typically when you add an altitude encoder, you wire it using grey code wiring, and that is rather a slew of wires to be accurate about it.  If you go this route, I highly suggest a Sandia encoder.  They last a LONG time compared to say an ACK-30.  So now (using list prices as reference) you are looking at a lot of money.   That being said, I think it is the coolest way to go, and in the end it minimizes work, especially if you have someone else build the cable interfacing it to the Encoder!  It also is good above 18,000 feet and into other countries.  



That being said, you now have one unit with a WAAS GPS, a built in Mode 3A transponder, with Extended Squitter added to handle ADS-B out requirements, a Mode-C altitude interface (for the external Encoder).  Other than the Encoder, it is an all in one unit.  Here's the rub.  That's a lot of stuff in one box.  If *ANY* of it goes bad, you are looking at having to pull the unit, and when you do, you lose every darn thing.  So the ADS-B extended squitter goes bad, out comes the box.  The WAAS GPS goes bad, out the whole thing comes.  Etc. etc.  I'm not so sure I like that.  But in reality the answer is going to be just how reliable this unit is, and we don't know that yet.  What we DO know is that there is a lot of additional stuff in that one box that CAN go bad!  In addition, you are going to have to re-certify the transponder and altitude encoder at an Avionics Shop.  That two year certification goes away if you are installing all new gear, so now you are looking at that cost as well.  



Here's the alternative.  The Garmin GDL-82 Universal Access Transceiver.  This is really only an option if you already have a decent Transponder and Altitude Encoder installed already and they are reliable and working just fine.  I'd advise testing them to make sure!  When you go this route, you will be transmitting on 978 Mhz.  This "box" really does have very few wires to interface.  It has a USB connector to program it (four wires), power & ground, plus a wire for Anonymous Mode, and a wire for a failure light (optional).  The existing transponder antenna hooks to it, a GPS antenna, and a short RF jumper from Transponder antenna out, to the GDL-82.  How does it work?  It will actually send (depending) an interrogation to your transponder on occasion and "read" the mode 3A code you have put in there, along with your reported pressure altitude sent out by the transponder, as the transponder read from the existing altitude encoder.  It basically "pulls" the information it needs from an actual transponder transmission your existing equipment is already doing.  The existing transponder transmission goes right through the 82, and out to the antenna with about 0.5 dB of loss.  It (the GDL-82) then makes its own transmission (about 40 watts) on 978 MHz to meet the ADS-B out requirement.  



So the GDL-82 has the ADS-B Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) transmitter inside, plus a WAAS GPS (if you want it and don't already have one).  If it goes bad, you still have your transponder working with Mode 3A (four numbers) plus Mode 3C Altitude transmission.  If the transponder goes bad, and you have to pull it, the GDL-82 will actually still make partial transmissions, although that is not an FAA recognized sub mode.  The bottom line to that is that it will still "wake up" the ground UAT stations, so that you will continue to get uninterrupted ADSB-IN.  That is WAY cool.  So you have the ability to not lose EVERYTHING if just one thing goes bad.  Down side, it will not work with a transponder that already has Mode-S.  It cannot be used above 18,000 feet, and it is not yet recognized in many countries.  



One more big plus.  It has Anonymous Mode.  Flip this switch, and anytime your transponder is set to VFR 1200 code, it does not send out your "N" number or your special recognition code.  It still meets ADS-B out requirements, but the FAA really can't tell who you are.  Keep something else in mind.  The FAA says that if you equip your aircraft with ADS-B out, IT MUST BE TURNED ON ALL THE TIME!  On the ground and in the air.  ALL the time!  This means that they can see and track every single thing you do, know who you are, how low you went and where, etc., etc., etc.  Meet Big Brother.  I am sorry folks, but having had experience with the FAA, I do not want them pulling up some data file that they recorded from my ADS-B out equipment saying I violated "whatever".  Even the best of pilots are capable of making a mistake now and then, and although this is the new "more friendly FAA" these days, you make up your own mind.  I am going with the GDL-82 because it is cheaper, it does not require me to do another transponder/encoder check at the shop, I have a really good Garmin transponder and encoder already, it allows me to continue to operate in reduced capability if just one part goes bad (I don't like "all or nothing"), and it has Anonymous Mode, and it is easier to wire in.  



This does not mean my way is "right" and someone else's way is "wrong".  I am just happy to have a choice, and am listing the thoughts that went through my mind in making the decision.  The GTX-335 remains a terrific piece of equipment, and I might eventually get it.  But not right away.  



Mark

--

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:43 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

If you go with the Garmin, They have a tiny encoder that bolts on the back of the xponder.

George Coy



--

draftsjust417(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:50 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Good info gents, many thanks.

 Ya my current xpndr, a venerable King 76A from pre-Y2K, legally passes the hardly-strict vfr requirements, fine for what I typically do, but it's very old and surely soon for the great trash can in the sky. Hence my preemptive thoughts of the GTX-335; hardly the most sophisticated system avail, but might be the one for a sufficient upgrade and cost-conscious legal ADS-B to boot.

 Thanks again---

 Justin 

On 08:50, Tue, Jun 19, 2018 Greg Wrobel <clouddog22(at)gmail.com (clouddog22(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 >

 > Justin.

 > That's the one I'm leaning towards since I have a new Garmin radio although there is no connection or usage between the two.Â 

 > I have a friend that just install his on a Chipmunk and he used two wires. Power and ground. It comes with GPS Antenna, wiring and rack. I will get the encoder for $249Â that's about the size of a quarter and it snaps into the back of the rack and connects to transponder when you slide it into tray. The only cable you need is the connection from xponder to hocky puck antenna and most places will make it for you (at a cost). I'm mounting my antenna on the rear turtle deck as opposed to the center one between the cockpits. Of course the 345 had ADS-B in but it's another $2000. I already have that in my aircraft.Â 

 >

 > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 11:21 AM Justin Drafts <draftsjust417(at)gmail.com (draftsjust417(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 >>

 >> Ladies, gents, and fellow fliers-

 >>

 >> As the ADS-B deadline slowly approaches, I'm considering the Garmin GTX-335 system for my Nanchang CJ6.

 >> Have any of you used this system before in a CJ?

 >> Thoughts & advice? Successes? Things to watch out for?

 >>

 >> Thanks all-

 >>

 >> Justin Drafts

 >> N280NC

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:56 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

George.  Does it plug right in and eliminate the wiring requirement to the main interface plug?  It sounds like that is what you are saying, which would make this an even more simple choice.



But ... "Anonymous Mode" is what lights my bulb.  Just sayin.  



Mark

--

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:58 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Check out the installation of the UAvionics Skybeacon.  This is a December 2017 article.  



https://www.flyingmag.com/skybeacon-installation-review



For those who are interested in the Skybeacon, the certified version should be available by Airventure, according the UAvionics.  $1895 for the certified version.  I'm on the list to receive one as soon as the certified version is released.

Here's the installation instructions.  An unbelievable 2 pages for an ADS-B Out solution.



http://uavionix.com/downloads/skybeacon/skyBeacon-User-Manual.pdf

Dennis

       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 2:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



This is a topic I've also  been thinking about for quite some time.   I have to disagree (just slightly because I am a known nit-picker) that all it requires is two wires, power and ground.  Typically when you add an altitude encoder, you wire it using grey code wiring, and that is rather a slew of wires to be accurate about it.  If you go this route, I highly suggest a Sandia encoder.  They last a LONG time compared to say an ACK-30.  So now (using list prices as reference) you are looking at a lot of money.   That being said, I think it is the coolest way to go, and in the end it minimizes work, especially if you have someone else build the cable interfacing it to the Encoder!  It also is good above 18,000 feet and into other countries.  



That being said, you now have one unit with a WAAS GPS, a built in Mode 3A transponder, with Extended Squitter added to handle ADS-B out requirements, a Mode-C altitude interface (for the external Encoder).  Other than the Encoder, it is an all in one unit.  Here's the rub.  That's a lot of stuff in one box.  If *ANY* of it goes bad, you are looking at having to pull the unit, and when you do, you lose every darn thing.  So the ADS-B extended squitter goes bad, out comes the box.  The WAAS GPS goes bad, out the whole thing comes.  Etc. etc.  I'm not so sure I like that.  But in reality the answer is going to be just how reliable this unit is, and we don't know that yet.  What we DO know is that there is a lot of additional stuff in that one box that CAN go bad!  In addition, you are going to have to re-certify the transponder and altitude encoder at an Avionics Shop.  That two year certification goes away if you are installing all new gear, so now you are looking at that cos!



 t as well.  



Here's the alternative.  The Garmin GDL-82 Universal Access Transceiver.  This is really only an option if you already have a decent Transponder and Altitude Encoder installed already and they are reliable and working just fine.  I'd advise testing them to make sure!  When you go this route, you will be transmitting on 978 Mhz.  This "box" really does have very few wires to interface.  It has a USB connector to program it (four wires), power & ground, plus a wire for Anonymous Mode, and a wire for a failure light (optional).  The existing transponder antenna hooks to it, a GPS antenna, and a short RF jumper from Transponder antenna out, to the GDL-82.  How does it work?  It will actually send (depending) an interrogation to your transponder on occasion and "read" the mode 3A code you have put in there, along with your reported pressure altitude sent out by the transponder, as the transponder read from the existing altitude encoder.  It basically "pulls" the information it ne!



 eds from an actual transponder transmission your existing equipment is already doing.  The existing transponder transmission goes right through the 82, and out to the antenna with about 0.5 dB of loss.  It (the GDL-82) then makes its own transmission (about 40 watts) on 978 MHz to meet the ADS-B out requirement.  



So the GDL-82 has the ADS-B Universal Access Transceiver (UAT) transmitter inside, plus a WAAS GPS (if you want it and don't already have one).  If it goes bad, you still have your transponder working with Mode 3A (four numbers) plus Mode 3C Altitude transmission.  If the transponder goes bad, and you have to pull it, the GDL-82 will actually still make partial transmissions, although that is not an FAA recognized sub mode.  The bottom line to that is that it will still "wake up" the ground UAT stations, so that you will continue to get uninterrupted ADSB-IN.  That is WAY cool.  So you have the ability to not lose EVERYTHING if just one thing goes bad.  Down side, it will not work with a transponder that already has Mode-S.  It cannot be used above 18,000 feet, and it is not yet recognized in many countries.  



One more big plus.  It has Anonymous Mode.  Flip this switch, and anytime your transponder is set to VFR 1200 code, it does not send out your "N" number or your special recognition code.  It still meets ADS-B out requirements, but the FAA really can't tell who you are.  Keep something else in mind.  The FAA says that if you equip your aircraft with ADS-B out, IT MUST BE TURNED ON ALL THE TIME!  On the ground and in the air.  ALL the time!  This means that they can see and track every single thing you do, know who you are, how low you went and where, etc., etc., etc.  Meet Big Brother.  I am sorry folks, but having had experience with the FAA, I do not want them pulling up some data file that they recorded from my ADS-B out equipment saying I violated "whatever".  Even the best of pilots are capable of making a mistake now and then, and although this is the new "more friendly FAA" these days, you make up your own mind.  I am going with the GDL-82 because it is cheaper, it doe!



 s not require me to do another transponder/encoder check at the shop, I have a really good Garmin transponder and encoder already, it allows me to continue to operate in reduced capability if just one part goes bad (I don't like "all or nothing"), and it has Anonymous Mode, and it is easier to wire in.  



This does not mean my way is "right" and someone else's way is "wrong".  I am just happy to have a choice, and am listing the thoughts that went through my mind in making the decision.  The GTX-335 remains a terrific piece of equipment, and I might eventually get it.  But not right away.  



Mark



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:13 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.



Mark

--

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:53 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

It is very small about 1/2â€œ x 1/4â€œ and it melts right on the back of the garments and you only need to run the static pressure to it.. I will get the part number and let you know.

George



Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Jun 19, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 George.  Does it plug right in and eliminate the wiring requirement to the main interface plug?  It sounds like that is what you are saying, which would make this an even more simple choice.

 

 But ... "Anonymous Mode" is what lights my bulb.  Just sayin.  

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:56 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/garmin11-14162.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw06LZBRBNEiwA2vgMVf08edRNgbhXNSUh24TmxE8xHaGIQ9BNyAdKLP1ljrsU43qpgkE4lxoCiTcQAvD_BwE

Sent from my iPhone



[quote] On Jun 19, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 George.  Does it plug right in and eliminate the wiring requirement to the main interface plug?  It sounds like that is what you are saying, which would make this an even more simple choice.

 

 But ... "Anonymous Mode" is what lights my bulb.  Just sayin.  

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:04 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

You're right.  The nav lights would have to be on (no big deal in my mind) or as you say, you'd have to run another wire out to the wing tip.

Dennis

       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.

Mark

--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:06 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Thanks George, that makes the Garmin Transponder even more attractive.



I just can't stand the FAA watching my every move though.....  sigh.  Probably just being overly paranoid.



Mark

--

byronmfox(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

See article in recent Red Alert by John Long. He has installed this ADS-B out wingtip device on Nanchang with success.



Blitz Fox

415-307-2405

[quote] On Jun 19, 2018, at 11:56 AM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil> wrote:

 

 

 

 George.  Does it plug right in and eliminate the wiring requirement to the main interface plug?  It sounds like that is what you are saying, which would make this an even more simple choice.

 

 But ... "Anonymous Mode" is what lights my bulb.  Just sayin.  

 

 Mark

 

 

 --

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:28 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Any idea if this encoder would work on the 327?



[quote] On June 19, 2018 at 2:55 PM George Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com> wrote:



http://m.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/avpages/garmin11-14162.php?gclid=CjwKCAjw06LZBRBNEiwA2vgMVf08edRNgbhXNSUh24TmxE8xHaGIQ9BNyAdKLP1ljrsU43qpgkE4lxoCiTcQAvD_BwESent from my iPhone



On Jun 19, 2018, at 2:56 PM, Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)> wrote:

[quote]--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



George.  Does it plug right in and eliminate the wiring requirement to the main interface plug?  It sounds like that is what you are saying, which would make this an even more simple choice.



But ... "Anonymous Mode" is what lights my bulb.  Just sayin.  



Mark

--

jblake207(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 12:29 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Since I changed to LED, my position lights stay on all the time anyway...



[quote] On June 19, 2018 at 3:03 PM "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:



You're right.  The nav lights would have to be on (no big deal in my mind) or as you say, you'd have to run another wire out to the wing tip.

Dennis



       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com" <yak-list(at)matronics.com> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.



Mark



--

pennington.construction.i
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:23 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

ADSB-out



So I have been looking at this in depth for about 3 weeks.Â  I fly a CJ and love it.

The garmin GDL82 is a good unit, but reading online some of the folks don't like the fact you have to use a computer with Garmin software to configure.Â  And there is a lot of coax to install comparably.

Uavionics has the beacon wing tip light solution and it does fit on the CJ nicely, it how ever does not have the clear position light on the rear of the light to make the Yak guys happy ( based on a conversation with Dennis.)

A couple of things with the beacon units.Â  They do come with a strobe add on so you can have LED position light and a strobe in one unit.Â  Yes it would take a separate switched wire for the strobe as you would guess.Â  Yes the NAV light would be on all the time for ADSB out.Â  Â So running a second wire for the NAV light is not needed if you think you can power the ADSB portion with out a NAV light.Â  Â On is on, you have a light and ADSB out.Â  Â Also if you do just the one light for 1400.00Â  you are flying with a red LED light on the one wing and what every you have on the other.Â  Â For a total of 2100.00 you can have a second matching unit on the right side and you get ADSB in.Â  That gives you weather and traffic from the green light.Â  Â ADSB out of the red light.Â  This unit gets altitude info from "sniffing" your mode C and using the info as needed.

Uavionics has another solution if you like your NAV and strobe lights like I do.

It is the SkyFy-EXT.Â  This is a two part system with small parts.Â  One is a what looks like a Garmin WAAS antenna like all of the white plastic you have seen, that takes power and ground, it has a grey wire that ties in to the second piece called a Echouat which also takes power and ground.Â  The grey wire is GPS position information shared with the Echouat from the GPS receiver antennaÂ  The echouat unit has an antenna connection and it ties to a 978 mhz antenna on the bottom of the airplane and this is also supplied in the kit.Â  The belly antenna sends the ADSB out info and also receives traffic and weather in.Â  This unit also "sniffs" your mode C transponder for altitude information.Â  This unit is 1400 and you get ADSB out and weather and traffic in.Â Â 

The nice thing about the Uavionics units is they are configured using a smart phone app.Â  Both units produce a WIFI signal that is compatible with fore flight etc.Â  It can also be monitored in flight using the app to check and see what is being transmitted in terms of altitude etc.Â  You can also change the configuration in flight with your smart phone if need be.Â  Based on the App you could check your encoder anytime you wanted to confirm accuracy along with what you are squawking.

You can set the unit to go anonymous when youÂ  squawk VFR.Â  In the event you squawk something else based on ATC, it then sends out your tail number etc. as expected, when you switch back to 1200 you go anonymous again.

Everyone is different and I am leaning to using the SkyFy-Ext system.Â  I have a good mode C transponder and alt encoder that was checked out and found to be healthy.

You can call Kurt or Ryan they are both super helpful and knowledgeable about these systems.Â  When you call just push 3 and it will connect you to these guys.Â  The number is 844 827 2372

The web site isÂ https://www.uavionix.com/Â  Â at the top of the menu is General Aviation and you can see the SkyFy-Ext and the Beacon systems.

Hope this helps

Mark Pennington

N621CJ



On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:28 PM, JON BLAKE <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]       Since I changed to LED, my position lights stay on all the time anyway..



[quote] On June 19, 2018 at 3:03 PM "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



You're right.Â  The nav lights would have to be on (no big deal in my mind) or as you say, you'd have to run another wire out to the wing tip.

Dennis



       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>



Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.Â   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?Â  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?Â  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.Â  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.



Mark



--

pennington.construction.i
Guest

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 1:26 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

ADSB-out



So I have been looking at this in depth for about 3 weeks.Â  I fly a CJ and love it.

The garmin GDL82 is a good unit, but reading online some of the folks don't like the fact you have to use a computer with Garmin software to configure.Â  And there is a lot of coax to install comparably.

Uavionics has the beacon wing tip light solution and it does fit on the CJ nicely, it how ever does not have the clear position light on the rear of the light to make the Yak guys happy ( based on a conversation with Dennis.)

A couple of things with the beacon units.Â  They do come with a strobe add on so you can have LED position light and a strobe in one unit.Â  Yes it would take a separate switched wire for the strobe as you would guess.Â  Yes the NAV light would be on all the time for ADSB out.Â  Â So running a second wire for the NAV light is not needed if you think you can power the ADSB portion with out a NAV light.Â  Â On is on, you have a light and ADSB out.Â  Â Also if you do just the one light for 1400.00Â  you are flying with a red LED light on the one wing and what every you have on the other.Â  Â For a total of 2100.00 you can have a second matching unit on the right side and you get ADSB in.Â  That gives you weather and traffic from the green light.Â  Â ADSB out of the red light.Â  This unit gets altitude info from "sniffing" your mode C and using the info as needed.

Uavionics has another solution if you like your NAV and strobe lights like I do.

It is the SkyFy-EXT.Â  This is a two part system with small parts.Â  One is a what looks like a Garmin WAAS antenna like all of the white plastic you have seen, that takes power and ground, it has a grey wire that ties in to the second piece called a Echouat which also takes power and ground.Â  The grey wire is GPS position information shared with the Echouat from the GPS receiver antennaÂ  The echouat unit has an antenna connection and it ties to a 978 mhz antenna on the bottom of the airplane and this is also supplied in the kit.Â  The belly antenna sends the ADSB out info and also receives traffic and weather in.Â  This unit also "sniffs" your mode C transponder for altitude information.Â  This unit is 1400 and you get ADSB out and weather and traffic in.Â Â 

The nice thing about the Uavionics units is they are configured using a smart phone app.Â  Both units produce a WIFI signal that is compatible with fore flight etc.Â  It can also be monitored in flight using the app to check and see what is being transmitted in terms of altitude etc.Â  You can also change the configuration in flight with your smart phone if need be.Â  Based on the App you could check your encoder anytime you wanted to confirm accuracy along with what you are squawking.

You can set the unit to go anonymous when youÂ  squawk VFR.Â  In the event you squawk something else based on ATC, it then sends out your tail number etc. as expected, when you switch back to 1200 you go anonymous again.

Everyone is different and I am leaning to using the SkyFy-Ext system.Â  I have a good mode C transponder and alt encoder that was checked out and found to be healthy.

You can call Kurt or Ryan they are both super helpful and knowledgeable about these systems.Â  When you call just push 3 and it will connect you to these guys.Â  The number is 844 827 2372

The web site isÂ https://www.uavionix.com/Â  Â at the top of the menu is General Aviation and you can see the SkyFy-Ext and the Beacon systems.

Hope this helps

Mark Pennington

N621CJ

  

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:28 PM, JON BLAKE <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]       Since I changed to LED, my position lights stay on all the time anyway..



[quote] On June 19, 2018 at 3:03 PM "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



You're right.Â  The nav lights would have to be on (no big deal in my mind) or as you say, you'd have to run another wire out to the wing tip.

Dennis



       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy1162699808772324132yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1529438477963_2872">Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.Â   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?Â  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?Â  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.Â  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.



Mark



--

Clouddog

Joined: 02 Jun 2016
Posts: 119
Location: Lebanon, TN

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

In my original email, I did say the Garmin encoder (size if a quarter) snaps into the back of the new tray. When you slide in the xponder,Â  you connect the encoder. The static source does not have to be removed hence no recheck for leaks. Yes if something goes bonkers in the GPS, encoder, xponder, you pull the unit and loose everything! When was the last time a new technology radio had given up the ghost? Yes it happens but this new stuff if pretty incredible. I agree if you have a new exponder and encoder the GDL may be a better way to go.Â My exponder is ancient (still works) but it's time for upgrade. The GTX335 has a slew of wires. They are there for hooking up to other Garmin devices such asÂ  their glass units where you can change the xponder code from the glass screen. If you a only need the xponder and use the snap on encoder, two wires, ground and positive coming from the breaker. As far as the USvionics, check on there delivery dates of the units. Sun n Fun folks indicated they were taking orders but no confirmation on when the units would be available. Things might have changed since then. They rely on WIFI to do the talking . The power source comes from your NAV light switch. Like Jon, my lights are on including LED landing light whenever I fly. We all have cammo airplanes for the most part and hard to see (cammo)!! There is a lot of stuff out there. Status had an excellent package for both ADS-B in and out. All excellent points by all. Y'all are a great group. Keep it up!!

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018, 4:30 PM Mark Pennington <pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com (pennington.construction.inc.1(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



[quote]  ADSB-out



So I have been looking at this in depth for about 3 weeks.Â  I fly a CJ and love it.

The garmin GDL82 is a good unit, but reading online some of the folks don't like the fact you have to use a computer with Garmin software to configure.Â  And there is a lot of coax to install comparably.

Uavionics has the beacon wing tip light solution and it does fit on the CJ nicely, it how ever does not have the clear position light on the rear of the light to make the Yak guys happy ( based on a conversation with Dennis.)

A couple of things with the beacon units.Â  They do come with a strobe add on so you can have LED position light and a strobe in one unit.Â  Yes it would take a separate switched wire for the strobe as you would guess.Â  Yes the NAV light would be on all the time for ADSB out.Â  Â So running a second wire for the NAV light is not needed if you think you can power the ADSB portion with out a NAV light.Â  Â On is on, you have a light and ADSB out.Â  Â Also if you do just the one light for 1400.00Â  you are flying with a red LED light on the one wing and what every you have on the other.Â  Â For a total of 2100.00 you can have a second matching unit on the right side and you get ADSB in.Â  That gives you weather and traffic from the green light.Â  Â ADSB out of the red light.Â  This unit gets altitude info from "sniffing" your mode C and using the info as needed.

Uavionics has another solution if you like your NAV and strobe lights like I do.

It is the SkyFy-EXT.Â  This is a two part system with small parts.Â  One is a what looks like a Garmin WAAS antenna like all of the white plastic you have seen, that takes power and ground, it has a grey wire that ties in to the second piece called a Echouat which also takes power and ground.Â  The grey wire is GPS position information shared with the Echouat from the GPS receiver antennaÂ  The echouat unit has an antenna connection and it ties to a 978 mhz antenna on the bottom of the airplane and this is also supplied in the kit.Â  The belly antenna sends the ADSB out info and also receives traffic and weather in.Â  This unit also "sniffs" your mode C transponder for altitude information.Â  This unit is 1400 and you get ADSB out and weather and traffic in.Â Â 

The nice thing about the Uavionics units is they are configured using a smart phone app.Â  Both units produce a WIFI signal that is compatible with fore flight etc.Â  It can also be monitored in flight using the app to check and see what is being transmitted in terms of altitude etc.Â  You can also change the configuration in flight with your smart phone if need be.Â  Based on the App you could check your encoder anytime you wanted to confirm accuracy along with what you are squawking.

You can set the unit to go anonymous when youÂ  squawk VFR.Â  In the event you squawk something else based on ATC, it then sends out your tail number etc. as expected, when you switch back to 1200 you go anonymous again.

Everyone is different and I am leaning to using the SkyFy-Ext system.Â  I have a good mode C transponder and alt encoder that was checked out and found to be healthy.

You can call Kurt or Ryan they are both super helpful and knowledgeable about these systems.Â  When you call just push 3 and it will connect you to these guys.Â  The number is 844 827 2372

The web site isÂ https://www.uavionix.com/Â  Â at the top of the menu is General Aviation and you can see the SkyFy-Ext and the Beacon systems.

Hope this helps

Mark Pennington

N621CJ

  

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 4:28 PM, JON BLAKE <jblake207(at)comcast.net (jblake207(at)comcast.net)> wrote:

[quote]       Since I changed to LED, my position lights stay on all the time anyway..



[quote] On June 19, 2018 at 3:03 PM "A. Dennis Savarese" <dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net (dsavarese0812(at)bellsouth.net)> wrote:



You're right.Â  The nav lights would have to be on (no big deal in my mind) or as you say, you'd have to run another wire out to the wing tip.

Dennis



       From: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil (mark.bitterlich(at)navy.mil)>

 To: "yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)" <yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com)> 

 Sent: Tuesday, June 19, 2018 3:15 PM

 Subject: Re: Re: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "Bitterlich, Mark G CIV NAVAIR, WD" <mark.bitterlich(at)navy1162699808772324132yui_3_16_0_ym19_1_1529438477963_2872">Dennis, looked at that option too, since it would fit right on my 1019.Â   If you wire them into the existing wing lighting wires, doesn't that mean you would have to have those lights turned on all the time?Â  Or else run a new wire out to the end of the wing?Â  They are another way cool option though, and since they too are a UAT transmitter on 978, they have Anonymous Mode as well.Â  It was a hard choice between that and the Garmin UAT.



Mark



--

mark.bitterlich(at)navy.m
Guest

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2018 6:52 am Post subject: ADS-B out in a CJ6...

Comments: 



Yes, you need a laptop or some kind of computer to program the GDL82.  Anything that has a USB port will work.  The software is free, and it is simple.  If you put in your N number, it automatically looks up the proper code to program the unit.  All ADS-B out units require programming.  Some allow it by pushing buttons on the front panel in "programming mode", some (as you mentioned) with a Smart Phone.   By having a computer connected to the Internet, this task is actually simplified.  So it is a matter of perspective.  Using a computer with internet actually is a plus, and not a minus.  Just another matter of perspective.  



No, there really is not a lot of coax to add with a GDL82, and I'm kind of lost as to why you might think so.  The unit goes between your existing transponder and your existing transponder antenna.  There should already be coax there.  It is true that you might have to add a short jumper as in my case about 12 inches.    Again, if you have old crap in the airplane, it makes no sense to use a GDL82 or any UAT for that matter.  Buy a totally new ES transponder, put in totally new coax, and a totally new antenna.  In any case, the GDL82 uses an internal diplexer, and thus your one existing transponder antenna is used for 1030/1090 and 978 Mhz.  That's not the  case with the SkyFy-EXT, where you are adding a totally new 978 antenna and coax.  Soooo..... maybe I am missing your point here?  



A word about "sniffing" out the code your transponder is transmitting, meaning your mode 3A and C outputs.  There is a requirement for a ADS-B Out transmission every second.  That works out great as long as a ground radar is interrogating your transponder and you have the UAT system.  But what if it is not, meaning what if you are out of range of ground based interrogation RADARS?  You still have to send a ADS-B Out transmission.  If you are using a complete 1030/1090 ES transponder, this is a piece of cake, because the unit already knows your squawk and also your Mode C Pressure Altitude.  The UAT systems don't have that info and have to get it.  If the aircraft transponder is not transmitting, the GDL82 actually interrogates the transponder itself, making it transmit, and then "sniffs" out the necessary data.  This means that UAT systems "sniff" out, or in reality the proper description is:  Interrogate the transponder, and read the reply.  But the interesting thing here is to realize that the Universal Access Systems have to either figure out a way to interrogate the existing transponder, or just use the last code they got when it transmitted.  One of the thoughts that goes through my mind is what happens when you are parked right next to another aircraft?  Could any of these remotely mounted systems (wing-tip mounts, etc.) "sniff out" the Mode 3 code of the aircraft sitting right next to them and then send the wrong data?  There is no way to discriminate or differentiate your transponder, from another one sitting 15 feet away.  The only way to prevent this is to base what you "sniff" based on how strong the signal is to begin with.  With the GDL82 connected directly to the transmit coax itself, this is easy.  But try to do with a remote system, and I can see where it might get fooled.  Time will tell, and there is not a lot of feedback from current users of these systems.  



The Uavionics group is a start-up company and they have some really ingenious and brilliant engineers in my opinion.  The dead simplicity of their designs (regarding install, etc.) are very attractive.  Programming via Smart Phone is leading edge, and just replacing wing tip lights makes it very simple.  To me it remains very tempting, and it is a good product that needs a good review.  Hope you will do that after you install it.   Different people have different requirements.  Mine are technically based more than anything else, but I have this nagging feeling that no matter what choice I make, I am going to feel I could have made a better one down the road!  



Mark

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