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riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:17 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.



GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

ELT: out the top in the tailcone?



ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?



Thanks for the advice!

Steven DeFord



Sent from my iPad

rleffler

Joined: 05 Nov 2006
Posts: 680

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 12:38 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

GPS:  Top on aluminum aft of cabin cover (two)

Com1/Com2:  One under each rear seat

Nav:  whiskers on the bottom of the tail

ELT:  on top, just in front of vertical

Transponder:  tunnel near the exhaust

ADSB: just aft of the second bulkhead behind baggage on the bottom

APRS:  on the bottom just aft of the baggage bulkhead



I've been flying for five years and have not experienced any issues.



--

_________________
Bob Leffler
N410BL - Phase I
http://mykitlog.com/rleffler

phil(at)philyoder.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 1:20 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

XM antenna on top





On Sun, Jul 29, 2018 at 4:44 PM Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com)> wrote:



[quote]--> RV10-List message posted by: Bob Leffler <bob(at)thelefflers.com (bob(at)thelefflers.com)>

 

 GPS:  Top on aluminum aft of cabin cover (two)

 Com1/Com2:  One under each rear seat

 Nav:  whiskers on the bottom of the tail

 ELT:  on top, just in front of vertical

 Transponder:  tunnel near the exhaust

 ADSB: just aft of the second bulkhead behind baggage on the bottom

 APRS:  on the bottom just aft of the baggage bulkhead

 

 I've been flying for five years and have not experienced any issues.

 

 --

dmaib(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:23 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

GPS (2) metal tailcone on top just aft of fiberglass cabin top. ELT further aft on tailcone top. NAV cat whiskers below rudder/horizontal stab on belly. XPDR under LH baggage floor, com2 under RH baggage floor. Access panels in baggage floor allows access to the antennas as well as step bolts. COM 1 under pilot seat. Sirius sat radio on glareshield. ADSB 2 under co-pilot seat. Flawless for 10 years and 1000 hours. 



David Maib

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

 

 GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

 COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

 NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

 ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

 

 ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

 

 Thanks for the advice!

 Steven DeFord

 

 Sent from my iPad

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 2:31 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.



Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.



ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).



Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).



ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.



GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.



Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.



Carl



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

 

 GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

 COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

 NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

 ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

 

 ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

 

 Thanks for the advice!

 Steven DeFord

 

 Sent from my iPad

schmoboy

Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 130

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:36 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

GPS and XM - Under the cowling just forward of the firewall on a custom 

shelf

COM1/COM2 - Right behind each rear seat in the baggage floor next to 

step bolts with access plate in baggage floor.

NAV - wiskers at top of VS.  Initially under fuselage tail under HS, but 

had extreme shadowing there so moved up top.

MKR BCN - inside right wingtip (IMHO no need anymore with 

decommissioning and other legal means of identifying)

ELT- under empennage fairing

XPDR/ADSB-Out (Garming gtx330 with ES conversion) one antenna under 

right front seat floor.



-Sean #40303 (wow, almost time for 5th condition inspection, time flies)



Steven DeFord wrote on 7/29/2018 3:15 PM:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.



 GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

 COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

 NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

 ELT: out the top in the tailcone?



 ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?



 Thanks for the advice!

 Steven DeFord



 Sent from my iPad

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 3:45 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

Note,

Location of IFR WAAS GPS under the cowl is of questionable legality and 

may impair performance. TSO requires full view of horizon in all 

directions, which is hard to do unless it is on top of fuselage or 

cabin. Nobody is going to check whether you follow the instructions for 

install on certified planes...only you have to decide what you are 

comfortable with. I have Dynon VFR GPS under cowl, and Garmin IFR 

antenna on top of the cabin.

Kelly



On 7/29/2018 4:34 PM, Sean Stephens wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 GPS and XM - Under the cowling just forward of the firewall on a custom 

 shelf

 COM1/COM2 - Right behind each rear seat in the baggage floor next to 

 step bolts with access plate in baggage floor.

 NAV - wiskers at top of VS.  Initially under fuselage tail under HS, but 

 had extreme shadowing there so moved up top.

 MKR BCN - inside right wingtip (IMHO no need anymore with 

 decommissioning and other legal means of identifying)

 ELT- under empennage fairing

 XPDR/ADSB-Out (Garming gtx330 with ES conversion) one antenna under 

 right front seat floor.

 

 -Sean #40303 (wow, almost time for 5th condition inspection, time flies)

 

 Steven DeFord wrote on 7/29/2018 3:15 PM:

> 

>

> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your 

> antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, 

> and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

>

> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do 

> you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope 

> reception too?  Marker beacon?

> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

>

> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

>

> Thanks for the advice!

> Steven DeFord

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

riveteddragon(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:07 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

Thanks!  No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?  I’m planning to go Skyview as well.  No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

Steve

Sent from my iPad

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

 Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

 Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

 ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

 Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

 ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

 GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

 Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

 Carl

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

> 

> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

> 

> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

> 

> Thanks for the advice!

> Steven DeFord

> 

> Sent from my iPad

> 

> 

>

Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:20 pm Post subject: Re: Antenna locations

GPS antenna on top of empenage aft of baggage area.

ELT aft of gps.

Transponder under pilot seat.

COM 1 under right rear passenger seat. (Bent whip).

COM 2 in right wingtip.

VOR/GS in left wingtip.

ADSB-in antennas on forward fiberglass doorposts (just aft of windscreen).

GPS (adsb-in Skyradar) and xm antenna on glareshield.



Belly antenna on the ground? I think one time ground couldn’t hear me, just switched to com 2.



Marker Beacon? Going the way of the Dodo. GPS provides these fixes.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

carl.froehlich(at)verizon
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:50 am Post subject: Antenna locations

No issue with tower hearing me - ever.

The “one antenna on the top and one on the bottom” is a Boeing 747 consideration - and not applicable to RVs.  The common concept is VHF transmissions are line of sight.  This is not exactly correct.  While the antenna radiates in a somewhat Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all surrounded surfaces - like the ground.  A nearby tower or getting clearance from an airport near where you are are not problems. 

As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and there is a hill between the airplane and the airport.

The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports that still have one.  I have never done an instrumented approach that had a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake.  The new RV-8 project will not have one.

The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass).  The GTN-650 can be finicky.  While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield, talking with people who’s opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential RFI issues (the GTN-650 has “known RFI problems” and I chased one myself).  You will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.

Carl

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 Thanks!  No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?  I’m planning to go Skyview as well.  No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

 Steve

 Sent from my iPad

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

> 

> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

> 

> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

> 

> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

> 

> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

> 

> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

> 

> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

> 

> Carl

> 

>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

>> 

>> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

>> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

>> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

>> 

>> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

>> 

>> Thanks for the advice!

>> Steven DeFord

>> 

>> Sent from my iPad

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>

pietflyer

Joined: 19 Jun 2017
Posts: 45

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:02 am Post subject: Antenna locations

The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs  I kind of like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..." as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying the approach correctly.  Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need for MB's.



Jack Phillips

Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year



--

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:47 am Post subject: Antenna locations

I too have GTN650 with Skyview. It seems that the TSO protocol does not 

allow using satellites with signals below some integrity threshold, 

while the Dynon GPS250 can use them. Dynon talks some about this with 

their GPS2020 receiver required for ADSB. The difference is such that my 

GPS 250 locks on location while sitting in hangar with door open, while 

the 650 requires clear view vertically before it will lock on.

A non-aviation GPS will lock while sitting in the back seat of a car.

Just depends on what the integrity of signal and strength of signal 

requirements are for the given application. Best to follow suppliers 

recommendations for GPS antenna placement if you plan on having IFR 

legality or need ADS-B out quality position signals.

I agree that two belly whips works fine. Occasionally a ground control 

or clearance delivery won't hear from one antenna. Switch to other radio 

has taken care of those issues. No problem at home drome calling ground 

from between hangar rows without line of sight.

Kelly

On 7/30/2018 5:48 AM, Carl Froehlich wrote:

 	  Quote: 	

 No issue with tower hearing me - ever.

 The “one antenna on the top and one on the bottom” is a Boeing 747 consideration - and not applicable to RVs.  The common concept is VHF transmissions are line of sight.  This is not exactly correct.  While the antenna radiates in a somewhat Omni directional pattern, some of the RF energy will be reflected off all surrounded surfaces - like the ground.  A nearby tower or getting clearance from an airport near where you are are not problems.

 As example, I pick up the AWOS from a nearby airport while in my hangar, and there is a hill between the airplane and the airport.

 The only time I pick up a Marker Beacon is when I fly over one of the few airports that still have one.  I have never done an instrumented approach that had a marker beacon. I was talked into getting and audio panel with the marker beacon receiver when building and before routinely flying IFR - that was a mistake.  The new RV-8 project will not have one.

 The one change I will do on the RV-8 is to move the GTN-650 GPS antenna to aft of the cockpit on top of the fuselage (under the canopy glass).  The GTN-650 can be finicky.  While it has worked well for me on top of the glare shield, talking with people who’s opinion I value I decided this might reduce any potential RFI issues (the GTN-650 has “known RFI problems” and I chased one myself).  You will find the SkyView GPS antenna/receiver to overall work better - it will go on top of the glare shield like the RV-10.

 Carl

> On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Thanks!  No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?  I’m planning to go Skyview as well.  No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

>

> Steve

>

> Sent from my iPad

>

>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

>>

>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

>>

>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

>>

>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

>>

>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

>>

>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

>>

>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

>>

>> Carl

>>

>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>>>

>>> 

>>>

>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

>>>

>>> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

>>> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

>>> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

>>>

>>> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

>>>

>>> Thanks for the advice!

>>> Steven DeFord

>>>

>>> Sent from my iPad

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>>

>

>

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

Kellym

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:48 am Post subject: Antenna locations

Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you 

to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was 

time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All 

automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to 

maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD 

moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may 

get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old 

land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and 

maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably 

order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to 

pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing 

electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.

Nostalgia mode off.

Kelly



On 7/30/2018 6:00 AM, Jack Philips wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 The FAA is phasing out Marker Beacons, as they are phasing out NDBs  I kind of like Marker beacons - I find it reassuring to hear the steady "Beep, Beep, Beep..." as I fly an approach, just giving a little indication that I am flying the approach correctly.  Of course, with GPS and apps like Foreflight, situational awareness is much easier now than it used to be, hence the lack of need for MB's.

 

 Jack Phillips

 Smith Mountain Lake, Virginia

 Kit # 40610 - on the final push, hoping to fly by the end of the year

_________________
Kelly McMullen
A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor # 5286
KCHD

kdb.rv10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:06 am Post subject: Antenna locations

I have an RV-6A with a com belly ant. Works great most of the time except one time I was on the ground trying to leave the Destin, FL airport. There you have to talk to Eglin departure for clearance to take off, which is located several miles away. I could hear them, but they could not hear me. I had to taxi around the airport until I could find a high enough spot so they could hear me. I put an ant on top of my RV10 to alleviate that problem. Why cause yourself more problems? Just because it works sometimes, doesn’t mean it always will.



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  > On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> 

> 

> Thanks!  No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?  I’m planning to go Skyview as well.  No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?

> 

> Steve

> 

> Sent from my iPad

> 

>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

>> 

>> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

>> 

>> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

>> 

>> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

>> 

>> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

>> 

>> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

>> 

>> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

>> 

>> Carl

>> 

>>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

>>> 

>>> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

>>> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

>>> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

>>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

>>> 

>>> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

>>> 

>>> Thanks for the advice!

>>> Steven DeFord

>>> 

>>> Sent from my iPad

>>> 

>>> 

>>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

>> 

> 

> 

> 

>

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:19 am Post subject: Antenna locations

I installed and still use the MB in my planes.  I figure when

you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest

levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for

really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool

in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware.  It's just

a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it

didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.

Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon

is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.

It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over

one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting

when flying by any random airport.



So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the

wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.



Tim

On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 

 Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you 

 to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was 

 time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All 

 automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to 

 maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD 

 moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may 

 get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old 

 land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and 

 maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably 

 order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to 

 pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing 

 electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.

 Nostalgia mode off.

 Kelly

digidocs

Joined: 04 Dec 2013
Posts: 59

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:16 am Post subject: Antenna locations

FWIW, I do find sometimes that on ground the top antenna gets through when the belly one wont.



On Mon, Jul 30, 2018 at 9:17 AM, Tim Olson <Tim(at)myrv10.com (Tim(at)myrv10.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> RV10-List message posted by: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>

 

 

 I installed and still use the MB in my planes.  I figure when

 you're in IMC, ILS approaches still give in most cases the lowest

 levels for approach altitudes, so they are a good approach for

 really bad days, and an MB audible alert is just one more tool

 in the toolbox for keeping you situationally aware.  It's just

 a run of coax, and a strip of scrap aluminum in my planes, so it

 didn't really take much effort, time, or weight to add.

 Every tool was designed for a reason, and a marker beacon

 is just a nice way to hear where you are without looking.

 It also gets me to be aware when I inadvertently fly over

 one why x/c to look out for traffic that I may be affecting

 when flying by any random airport.

 

 So I don't really see a downside of having one. On the

 wrong day though, there could be a downside to not.

 

 Tim

 

 

 On 07/30/2018 08:46 AM, Kelly McMullen wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		   --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

 

 Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, because the first told you to compare GS intercept with altitude, and the second told you it was time to go missed if you didn't have the required visual clues. All automatic and audible...no need to watch anything. Also cheap to maintain. The elimination is just budget window dressing. When the DOD moves (probably already has) to a different GPS system, the users may get some reality as to what GPS system really costs, compared to the old land based system. Yes, much more universal coverage..but launching and maintaining 20 some satellites plus a few more for WAAS is probably order of magnitude bigger than land based system IF the FAA ever had to pay the whole bill. But technology moves on and has us replacing electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.

 Nostalgia mode off.

 Kelly

 

 	
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:12 am Post subject: Antenna locations

I have both COM attenna on the bottom, staggered.  I can recall one, 

maybe two situations where I was not able to communicate while on the 

ground.  Switching to the other radio, I was able to communicate.



On 7/30/2018 2:05 AM, Steven DeFord wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks!  No issues with talking to tower on the ground with belly antennas?  I’m planning to go Skyview as well.  No more marker beacons because GPS supplants the need for them?



 Steve



 Sent from my iPad



> On Jul 29, 2018, at 15:29, Carl Froehlich <carl.froehlich(at)verizon.net> wrote:

>

> 

>

> Two bent whip comm antennas on the belly, one behind the other, one on the left side of the tunnel floor and one on the right side of the tunnel floor.  That way you can get to the antennas and the coax feed lines, and they do not interfere with the elevator push tube.

>

> Transponder antenna under the passenger seat.

>

> ADS-B antenna on the belly aft of the baggage compartment bulkhead.  I mount the ADS-B receiver there as well.  It is wired with a single four conductor shielded wire (SkyView system).

>

> Home brew wingtip NAV/LOC/GS antenna (picks up VORs at 100+ miles).

>

> ELT antenna under the empennage fairing.

>

> GTN-650 GPS antenna and SkyView integrated GPS antenna and receiver mounted on top of the glare shield.

>

> Marker beacon antenna is a 31” piece of wire running under the engine with tie wraps, connected at the firewall via a BNC bulkhead connector.  While this works well, I will never again put a marker beacon receiver in an airplane.

>

> Carl

>

>> On Jul 29, 2018, at 4:15 PM, Steven DeFord <riveteddragon(at)gmail.com> wrote:

>>

>> 

>>

>> For those of you who equipped for IFR, where did you put your antennas?  I’m getting to the point where I’m closing up the floors, and so want to get my coax run to the right places.

>>

>> GPS:  into/through the fiberglass canopy cover?

>> COM1/COM2:  bottom somewhere?  One on top and one on bottom?  Where do you put it to avoid interfering with others and so you have access later?

>> NAV:  whiskers on the VS?  Wingtip?  Does this cover glide slope reception too?  Marker beacon?

>> ELT: out the top in the tailcone?

>>

>> ADS-B/Transponder?  Bottom below the pilot footwell or something?

>>

>> Thanks for the advice!

>> Steven DeFord

>>

>> Sent from my iPad

>>

>>

>>

>

>






	




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Bob Turner

Joined: 03 Jan 2009
Posts: 885
Location: Castro Valley, CA

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Antenna locations

 	  Kellym wrote: 	
		  Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...



But technology moves on and has us replacing 

electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.

Nostalgia mode off.

Kelly



	




I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There aren’t any left around here.

As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics choices. My home field had an “ADF required” ILS. I seriously considered not buying a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldn’t have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today, 10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now “DME required”. So now, if I had gone the ADF route 10 years ago, I’d be looking at a major panel upgrade. I think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.

_________________
Bob Turner
RV-10 QB

tsts4

Joined: 06 Aug 2007
Posts: 167
Location: Tampa, FL

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:13 pm Post subject: Re: Antenna locations

- My cat whisker VOR antenna is mounted on the bottom of the tailcone under the HS



- My #1 COM antenna is mounted right behind the seam of the cabin top and tailcone on the tailcone top skin. I did extend a ground-plane onto the cabin top using 3 strips of copper foil embedded into the fiberglass. My ELT antenna is roughly 2 feet behind it.



- My #2 COM is a bent whip under my right wing under the first inboard bay at the wing root. 



- My transponder antenna is right behind the baggage bulkhead on the bottom of the tailcone (my transponder (a GTX 23ES) is back there too)



- I have my GTN 650 and one of my G3X GPS antennas mounted between the doors on the cabin top.  The 650 antenna is ahead of the G3X antenna and offset right of centerline; the G3X is offset left. The coax runs through my overhead console.

_________________
Todd Stovall
aka "Auburntsts" on EAA and VAF
RV-10 N728TT -- Flying

Tim Olson

Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 2878

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:51 pm Post subject: Antenna locations

It must be region dependent. (ILS with MB).  I just flew one at OSH a couple weeks ago and flew over it a couple days ago, and there is one 15 miles from my home airport as well. We aren’t decommissioning all

That fast around me.

Tim

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Jul 30, 2018, at 2:55 PM, Bob Turner <bobturner(at)alum.rpi.edu> wrote:

 Kellym wrote:

> Yes. I loved both outer and middle markers, ...

> 

> But technology moves on and has us replacing 

> electronics every 10-15 years instead of every 30 years.

> Nostalgia mode off.

> Kelly

> 

> 

 I loved the MBs too, especially the MM, since it was a good reminder to not fixate just when the workload was highest. But try to find one these days. I currently have two instrument students who, so far, have never heard a MB. There aren’t any left around here.

 As to the 10 year life cycle: Ten years ago I was still contemplating avionics choices. My home field had an “ADF required” ILS. I seriously considered not buying a GPS (to save money) and instead buying a used ADF, which were dirt cheap and plentiful. But I found that used ADF antennas were hard to find - people were pulling their ADFs but leaving the antennas, I presume so they wouldn’t have to patch and paint the hole left behind. So I ended up with a 420W. Today, 10 years later, the LOM is gone; the ILS is now “DME required”. So now, if I had gone the ADF route 10 years ago, I’d be looking at a major panel upgrade. I think your ten year life cycle comment is correct.

 --------

 Bob Turner

 RV-10 QB

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