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Matt Dralle
Site Admin
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 26320
Location: Livermore CA USA
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 Posted: Mon Jul 17, 2006 8:35 pm Post subject: Open Letter To Michael A. Bigelow... |
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At 10:43 AM 7/17/2006 Monday, Michael A. Bigelow wrote:
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<Matt,>
My post about your forum was meant as a suggestion to you and I had no intent of upsetting you or anyone else with it. Please go back and read my original post, it was just good advice to make this forum a better place for us all. You have put a lot of time into this list, and I obviously touched a soft spot with you. I wish you would have taken the suggestion for what it was rather than taken offense to it. Any improvement to the list is good for all of us, but as the list admin it will benefit you more than anyone else. Bottom line is, I was trying to help you.
<Michael Bigelow>
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Michael Bigelow,
Okay, lets take a look at your original post and see just why so many people including myself found it offensive to one degree or another. Frankly, taken individually, many comments were insensitive and taken as a work, they came off as extremely arrogant and offensive. Some of the following are taken out of context, but the tone is the same:
>Why are we using this antiquated system ?
Use of the word "antiquated" is offensive to the person using the alleged antiquation. In my case, you are talking about something I put a great deal of personal time and financial resources into. For the Listers, its something that they know and use and are comfortable with. What if I said to you, "Why is your car such a piece of shit?" Offensive. I could have said "Hum, have you thought about maybe getting a new car?". I said the same thing, but it was totally not offensive.
>The email system wastes a huge amount of bandwidth...
"Wastes" implies negativity, and total disregard. Why not say "uses a lot of bandwidth"...? And who's to say its being wasted by the email distribution? I run the system and I say it isn't wasted.
>...most of it is never read.
Says who? You? Do you have statistics to back this claim up? Again, it is offensive to tell people what they do or don't do when you really don't have any imperial data.
>The current email list system has so many limitations and drawbacks...
Again, says who? "So many limitations and drawbacks" is like saying "Geez, your girlfriend is so fat, she can't even drive to the store to get beer." That's just not true, and has an exceedingly negative tone and is basically a slap in the face to the person managing said system.
> ..constantly having work around them, even though some may not realize it.
Well, here you just called everyone on the List an idiot. "And, they don't even know they're stupid." I exaggerate for effect, but that's exactly what your saying to 1000 guys that have been around a lot longer that you have. How can that not be taken to be offensive?
>...it is time for us to join the modern world...
Again, "You Listers are just too stupid to join the modern world..." Just plain offensive.
>...they will not like the idea of anything different even if it is better.
"You're too stupid to even know if something is better." Could the Listers somehow not be offended by this? Not likely.
>We should not let them hold improvements...
"You dumb Listers are stupid and we shouldn't let your petty insecurities with something new hold us more knowledgeable people back. Yeah, that would probably piss you off too, wouldn't it?
>...once they get used to a better system...
Better says who? Just because someone likes Red VW Bugs, and you like Yellow Corvettes doesn't lessen the fact that Red VW Bugs are what the other person likes. Why would you insult their preference?
>The current antiquated email list hurts us all by its inherent limitations
>and stifles the potential of your forum.
What? That's just plain bogus. Excepting a few translation gottchas that have been discussed, how is it that integrating what the vast majority of what people prefer (email distribution) with something new (the forum), "stifling" the potential??? That's a totally ridiculous line of reasoning. I have given both groups of users what they want - not just what a few want. How can that be possibly be "stifling potential"?
>...it could be so much better.
What? Again, what is your basis? How is supporting email distribution in addition to forums "so much worse".
>I just wonder why you don't bring us up modern standards here on the list
>like every other forum in the world.
Again, what? How is supporting email distribution in addition to forums a disadvantage? You just don't make any sense. I will admit that much of what I pointed out can be caulked up to semantics, but the point is that you use extremely negative, condescending language and tone to get a point across that isn't valid.
And you assert that web-based forums are "far superior to antiquated email distribution". I flatly, and emphatically disagree with you. I personally hate having to go to a web site for my discussion content. And its not because I'm too stupid to know any better. I've been writing high and low level code and building and using computers for 20 years and have a better understanding of everything about the machine you are reading this email on than most people.
The world is about choices. I have tried to provide as many choices as possible here on the Matronics Email Lists. I could have long ago forced everyone to use a web-forum version of the List content as I know at least a couple of other operators have. But why? Why make people "choose" when there is absolutely no reason to do so.
I put a lot of time, work, and resources (financial and otherwise) into running these Lists and providing the members with the best - and most functionally diverse - system I possibly can. And yes, I do jump on the rabble-rousers like yourself when then come on the List and start making assertions about the quality of experience here on the Lists. I take your offensive and unsubstantiated comments personally. Liken it to calling my kid fat and stupid.
That being said, most everyone on the Lists will attest to my open-mindedness when it comes to adding new services and features to the List experience here. The Forums, the Wiki, the Chat, the Search Engine, the List Browse, and about two thirds of the Lists were all direct responses to *requests from Listers*! When someone makes a useful suggestion, I listen and do my best to implement when possible.
On the other hand, I, like most people, I believe, don't feel particularly motivated by individuals that toss around a bunch of insults and trash talk disguised as supportive and "constructive criticism".
I have Cc:'d the List on this email, because I wanted to make my comments in the public forum. I also wanted to apologize in the public forum for my border-line response to you particularly with respect to my banning comment. It was inappropriate and unjustified. It also stimulated somewhat of a "let's beat up on Michael A. Bigelow" rash of content and for this I apologize as well. That being said, you frankly got, to a great extent, what you deserved. You need to work on your presentation and start stripping out the "offensive" content and condescending attitude. You will always find yourself in the middle of a controversy if you continue with this behavior.
I would like to consider this thread closed. There are a great many people that strongly prefer the Email Distribution method of content distribution - myself included - and there are a great many people that prefer the newer web-forum method of content distribution. Both are available at the Matronics Lists. People like choices. That's what I try to provide. Enough said.
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
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Matt Dralle
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slyck(at)frontiernet.net
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:41 am Post subject: Open Letter To Michael A. Bigelow... |
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I prefer red VW bugs myself.........
40 hp
6 volt
-BB
do not archive
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FS2Kolb(at)aol.com
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| Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:51 am Post subject: Open Letter To Michael A. Bigelow... |
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Matt,
You can't reason with a intransigent person. The plurality of us know there is nothing wrong with this list and the long hours you have spent keeping all the lists running smoothly will always be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Do not archive
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biglar
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457
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