Matronics Email Lists :: View topic

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

PASS-THROUGH CHARGER
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:36 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Electronics should be making our life and flying easier not more complicated.

I have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.

It is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to be working fine.

The unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.

At some point I hope to install an external antenna for that also.

Here is the frustrating part:

The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.Â  I have battery that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.

Yeah, well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without requiring a charge.

So, here is the rub...Â  I am getting tired of climbing in back of the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the plane and hook itÂ  back up...Â  Well, you get the idea!!!

I would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes power source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery and turn On & Off the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and CHARGE the battery while it is being used to power the RPi.

Would anyone know of a PASS-THROUGH charging circuit that would accomplish this?

My idea is also to use a larger battery.Â  Something like a 12 AH / 12 VDC Battery with a step-down voltage regulator for 5.2 VDC (at) 2.1 Amps.Â  That should give me a current source of about 27 AH and 75 Hours of operation...Â  Not counting re-charging.Â  

The voltage regulator has to be very well regulated in both ripple and constant 5.2 VDC, the RPi is a bit sensitive on those things.Â  Especially the voltage.Â  I know it does notÂ  like a low voltage at all.





Thanks Electron Chasers,

BarryÂ

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:49 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Can you skip the battery and power the RPi directly from the aircraft?

Less weight, simpler installation.



I have had an RPi setup in this manner in my aircraft for a few years

now, also for ADS-B In.



Curious, what are you using for WX (weather)?  I am assuming this is

something different from the weather available via ADS-B since you have

a separate antenna for it.  Would love to learn about alternatives!  



Thanks,



-Dj



On 10/03/2018 02:29 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes power

 source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery and turn On & Off

 the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and CHARGE the battery while it is

 being used to power the RPi.


	




-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Currently Flying: Glastar

Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:08 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

DJ:

The RPi requires 5 VDC so itÂ  can not be powered directly from a plane's system, there has toÂ  be something toÂ  get it down to 5 VDC.

The WX is from UAT on 978 MHz (ADS-B) , that is why the second antenna.

You probably have the same type system.Â Â 

I'm thinking of combing both antennas in the same package and mount it outside. <-- Don't know how as yet.Â  Size is an issue.

Barry

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:27 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.

  



   Can you share a schematic of your present power

   supply and associated conditioning?



   The RPi schematics I've seen all call

   for the legacy 5.0v, digital logic supply

   and the largest power draw I saw for the

   basic Pi board was about 0.7A.



   There's a host of 5v output step-down converters

   that should let you run the 5v system directly

   from a feeder off the ship's bus . . . no

   battery needed.



 

 

   Bob . . .

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:37 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

By "direct", I mean not trying to charge a battery then have the battery

run the RPi.  That eliminates the complication of the charger, dual

switches, extra wiring and weight.



I'm using one of these:



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01511SZYK



I have a switch on the panel that controls 12v going to that unit, with

that unit plugged directly into the RPi.



I built a Stratux system using the instructions from http://stratux.me/

with parts listed under the "Parts List, Dual Band" section.  Both

antennas mount on the Stratux box itself.  It is mounted in my tail

section but since my aircraft is fiberglass I don't need to mount the

antennas outside.  It is a nice compact setup.



They do offer a suction cup option for sticking the entire thing to a

window if you have a metal airplane.  I haven't tried it so I can't

offer a PIREP.



-Dj

On 10/03/2018 03:08 PM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   The RPi requires 5 VDC so itÂ  can not be powered directly from a plane's

 system, there has toÂ  be something toÂ  get it down to 5 VDC.

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 11:46 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

On 10/03/2018 03:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   the largest power draw I saw for the

   basic Pi board was about 0.7A.


	


They recommend a 2.5 amp power supply for the latest models, if you are

going to be powering anything off the USB ports.  A typical Stratux

(ADS-B setup) uses three of the USB ports, one for a GPS, and one for

each of two radio receivers, all getting power from the RPi.



-Dj



-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Currently Flying: Glastar

Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

At 02:45 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Dj Merrill <deej(at)deej.net>



 On 10/03/2018 03:26 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:

 > the largest power draw I saw for the

 >   basic Pi board was about 0.7A.



 They recommend a 2.5 amp power supply for the latest models, if you are

 going to be powering anything off the USB ports.  A typical Stratux

 (ADS-B setup) uses three of the USB ports, one for a GPS, and one for

 each of two radio receivers, all getting power from the RPi. 	


   Aha! good data . . . thanks



 

 

   Bob . . .

glastar(at)gmx.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:14 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Barry,



  I have very good experience with Traco Power DC-DC converters, they come

  in all kind of varieties, also high power once, they are clean and work

  perfect since over 15 years in my plane



  Mouser does sell them



  Cheers Werner

 	  Quote: 	
		   

 On 03.10.2018 21:08, FLYaDIVE wrote:

> DJ:

>

> The RPi requires 5 VDC so itÂ  can not be powered directly from a 

> plane's system, there has toÂ  be something toÂ  get it down to 5 VDC.

BARRY CHECK 6

Joined: 15 Mar 2011
Posts: 738

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:16 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Bob:



On Wednesday, October 3, 2018, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    The RPi requires a power source that is a battery.

 Â 



 Â  Can you share a schematic of your present power

 Â  supply and associated conditioning?



Barry - No schematic, it is just a battery.

 Â  The RPi schematics I've seen all call

 Â  for the legacy 5.0v, digital logic supply

 Â  and the largest power draw I saw for the

 Â  basic Pi board was about 0.7A.



Barry - 0.7Amps would work.Â  Iâ€™m guess at the 375 mA.



	
Â The voltage range is 4.9 to 5.2 VDC.Â  So I want to be at the upper limit.

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Â  There's a host of 5v output step-down converters

 Â  that should let you run the 5v system directly

 Â  from a feeder off the ship's bus . . . no

 Â  battery needed.



Barry - I want a battery as back up if I have to shut down the Master.Â  Also the iPad is independent on an internal battery.

That way I will have total backup and even portability.Â  I have a battery system for my Comm radio also.



	




BarryÂ 

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

	
Â 

Â 

Â 

Â 

BÂ 

Â 

BÂ 

Â 

-- 

Barry

"Chop'd Liver"

If you wash your hands before you go to the bathroom you may have the makings of a Crew Chief.

BMC_Dave

Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 1:30 pm Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?



I found this one that's nice and sealed too:



https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06WVLFYJH/ref=sspa_dk_detail_4?pd_rd_i=B06WVLFYJH&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_p=f52e26da-1287-4616-824b-efc564ff75a4&pf_rd_r=M3XWWYVBPFRG1XHN219V&pd_rd_wg=Z6c64&pf_rd_s=desktop-dp-sims&pf_rd_t=40701&pd_rd_w=qoucR&pf_rd_i=desktop-dp-sims&pd_rd_r=427a9c19-c751-11e8-8c11-7fd735fac2a8&th=1

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 2:59 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

At 04:30 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BMC_Dave" <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com>



 I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours? 	


  Unless and until a particular article is TESTED either

  in the lab or in practice, any blanket assertions about

  EMC are without foundation and may cause one to miss

  an opportunity. It is true that many commercial, off the

  shelf products are not particularly EMC friendly . . . in

  aircraft or elsewhere.



  Without running the traps in the EMC lab followed by verification

  in the field, off-hand assertions are without foundation.



  Given the very low cost of these products, the experiment

  is not expensive. In this case, it's not risky either.



  As a side note, I observe that the RPi designers seem

  rather fond of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor as a

  hedge against o.v. condition at the input terminals to

  their product.



 [img]cid:.0[/img]



  This is a GROSS MISAPPLICATION of these devices. Specifications

  for this device tell us . . .



 [img]cid:.1[/img]



 

  These devices BEGIN to conduct at 6.4 to 7.0 volts.

  When subjected to fault currents up to an including the

  device's peak power rating of 600W, they may clamp-off

  the supply voltage at 9.2 volts or so.



  The RPi will be toast at considerably less voltage. The Transorb

  is designed to stand off fast rise, relatively short transient

  events . . . not hard regulation failures in the input supply.

  Further, the equipment they are intended to 'protect' must

  stand off an over-shoot greater than or equal to the

  clamping voltage of the protective device.



  Virtually ALL of the commercial, off-the-shelf down-converter

  products have a failure mode that includes application of

  ship's bus voltage to the 5.0v output rail . . . with an

  impressive peak fault current.



  If anyone is interested in applying a COTS down-converter to

  their RPi (or any other system with a 5.0v operating bus),

  I can offer an ov protection system that far exceeds the

  capability of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor.



   



 

 

   Bob . . .

27efcb.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

70.38 KB

Viewed:

16282 Time(s)

27efea.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

114.29 KB

Viewed:

16282 Time(s)

BMC_Dave

Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Just going off people complaining about it interfering with their radios, figured I'd ask the guy who's actually using one in his airplane. Hopefully he'll chime in

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:26 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

At 06:20 PM 10/3/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "BMC_Dave" <bmcdave85(at)gmail.com>



 Just going off people complaining about it interfering with their radios, figured I'd ask the guy who's actually using one in his airplane. Hopefully he'll chime in 



 	


   Good idea . . . 



 

 

   Bob . . .

csmale(at)bak.rr.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:50 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch       screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just       turning off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating       system.     

One such programmable control is the Petrockblock Powerblock.       There are others as well just do a search for Raspberry pi power       control or power switch.Â Â  csmale(at)bak.rr.com (csmale(at)bak.rr.com)

          

     On 10/03/2018 11:29 AM, FLYaDIVE wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                         Electronics           should be making our life and flying easier not more           complicated.

         I           have a Raspberry Pi (RPi) configured for ADS-B In and WX.

         It           is displaying the information on a iPad and so far it seams to           be working fine.

         The           unit is hooked to an external belly mounted antenna for the           ADS-B In and an internal antenna for WX.

         At           some point I hope to install an external antenna for that           also.

         Here           is the frustrating part:

         The           RPi requires a power source that is a battery.Â  I have battery           that is suppose to store 12,000 mA.

         Yeah,           well, I'll believe that when it runs for 34 Hours without           requiring a charge.

         So,           here is the rub...Â  I am getting tired of climbing in back of           the plane to Install and Remove the battery for Charging and           to remember to charg the battery and bring it back to the           plane and hook itÂ  back up...Â  Well, you get the idea!!!

         I           would like to hook up a battery, connect it to the planes           power source, have a means of turning On & Off the battery           and turn On & Off the RPi [that is easy a DPST switch] and           CHARGE the battery while it is being used to power the RPi.

         Would           anyone know of a PASS-THROUGH charging circuit that would           accomplish this?

         My           idea is also to use a larger battery.Â  Something like a 12 AH           / 12 VDC Battery with a step-down voltage regulator for 5.2           VDC (at) 2.1 Amps.Â  That should give me a current source of about           27 AH and 75 Hours of operation...Â  Not counting re-charging.Â            

         The           voltage regulator has to be very well regulated in both ripple           and constant 5.2 VDC, the RPi is a bit sensitive on those           things.Â  Especially the voltage.Â  I know it does notÂ  like a           low voltage at all.

         

         

         

         

         Thanks           Electron Chasers,

         BarryÂ

BMC_Dave

Joined: 04 Jul 2018
Posts: 40

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:00 pm Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

 	  csmale(at)bak.rr.com wrote: 	
		  unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch       screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just       turning off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating       system.     

One such programmable control is the Petrockblock Powerblock.       There are others as well just do a search for Raspberry pi power       control or power switch.Â Â  csmale(at)bak.rr.com (csmale(at)bak.rr.com)

          

     	




That's something I hadn't considered, and you're right. But there are a lot of Stratux users out there, myself included, who just plug in and unplug the unit when we need it. Hasn't been an issue, though I'm not saying it can't be. But I'll flash another SD card and keep it as a spare now, thanks!

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:32 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

The Stratux software has a web interface with a "shutdown" button.Â  I 

have a shortcut on my iPad right next to the Foreflight icon which takes 

me directly to that web page, and you can click shutdown and wait 30 

seconds or so until you cut power.



However, I almost always forget to do that and haven't corrupted the SD 

card on the RPi yet.Â  Probably a good idea to carry a spare SD card 

already pre-programmed with the Stratux software in case it does happen 

though.



-Dj

On 10/3/2018 7:50 PM, chris wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   unless you have a touch screen and turn off the RPI via the touch 

 screen, you need some kind of programmable power control. Just turning 

 off the power to the unit risks corrupting the operating system.


	




-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Currently Flying: Glastar

Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B

deej(at)deej.net
Guest

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:44 pm Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

I am not aware of any interference from the one I am using 

(https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01511SZYK).



It is located in the tail section far away from my panel radios, 

although I do have one COM antenna in the vertical stabilizer which is 

about 3 feet behind where the power converter is mounted.



No noticeable interference.



For the cheap $12 price, give it a try and see how it works for you.



-Dj

On 10/3/2018 5:30 PM, BMC_Dave wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   I'm needing to do the same for my Stratux. Looking at these converters it seems they like to belt out the EMI. Have you had any issues with yours?


	




-- 

Dj Merrill - N1JOV - EAA Chapter 87

Currently Flying: Glastar

Previously: Cessna 150 - Glasair 1 FT - Grumman AA1B

Eric Page

Joined: 15 Feb 2017
Posts: 247

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2018 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

 	  nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote: 	
		  If anyone is interested in applying a COTS down-converter to their RPi (or any other system with a 5.0v operating bus), I can offer an ov protection system that far exceeds the capability of the SMBJ5.0A transient suppressor. 	




Bob, I'd be interested to see your OV protection circuit.  I don't have an immediate need for it, but it sounds like something useful to add to my toolbox.  Thanks.



Eric

Tundra10

Joined: 14 Jun 2010
Posts: 102
Location: Scarborough, Ontario

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 4:58 am Post subject: Re: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

I once read a modification that changes the file system of the Stratux to read only, which mostly requires turning off logging.  This will pretty much eliminate problems corrupting the file system by powering off without a shutdown.

I just use whatever cheap cigarette lighter 5V USB adapter is handy and unplug the Pi at the end of the flight. I have done  this for probably 50 flights by now. None of the USB adapters has caused EMI problems.

When the file system gets corrupted, I will try the read only modification.



Jeff Page

Dream Aircraft Tundra #10

yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2018 5:41 am Post subject: PASS-THROUGH CHARGER

Same here except I don't even unplug it but just let it go on and off 

with the battery master. I've had the original cobbled together stratux 

for several years so I don't know if later versions are less tolerant or 

I'm just lucky. Cheap USB adapters have been OK.Â  I suspect that since 

we mostly hear from folks who have a problem, we tend to over estimate 

how frequent the problems actually are.



Ken

On 04/10/2018 8:58 AM, Tundra10 wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 I once read a modification that changes the file system of the Stratux to read only, which mostly requires turning off logging.  This will pretty much eliminate problems corrupting the file system by powering off without a shutdown.

 I just use whatever cheap cigarette lighter 5V USB adapter is handy and unplug the Pi at the end of the flight. I have done  this for probably 50 flights by now. None of the USB adapters has caused EMI problems.

 When the file system gets corrupted, I will try the read only modification.



 Jeff Page

 Dream Aircraft Tundra #10





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=483600#483600

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum