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Wig-Wag wiring

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JOHN TIPTON

Joined: 17 Sep 2006
Posts: 239
Location: Torquay - England

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:45 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

Hi Guys (Bob)



I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module



Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm 



in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections



John

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:39 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 04:45 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com>



 Hi Guys (Bob)



 I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module



  Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm 



 in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections



 John



 	


 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181110073102.0583fe90(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img] 



   To the best of my knowledge, the device

   depicted does not exist in a toggle switch.

   A 2-10 can be wired for SINGLE pole, three

   position operation which would need a

   couple of diodes added to implement the

   'both-on' function in the center with the

   OFF being full down.



   A 2-1 switch can be used with no added

   diodes but the operation would be BOTH (down),

   OFF (center) and WIGWAG (up).



   I can sketch a schematic for either . . .

   your choice.



   What kind of landing lights are you installing?



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring

I do not trust switches that depend entirely on rivets to conduct current.

http://www.bandc.aero/toggleswitch-doublepole.aspx

Click on the small pictures on the above website.  Notice that the rivets go through plastic.  If that plastic flows over time, the electrical connection could fail.

The most economical and perhaps easiest to wire switch is a DPDT with center off.  ON-OFF-ON  Do NOT buy a switch that has parentheses, for instance (ON)-OFF-ON.  Parentheses indicates a momentary position. 

Once you have the switch in hand, it is easy to figure out how to connect it by using a test light or ohm meter.

DP3T switches are available from electronic parts suppliers like Mouser and Digikey.

https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z28fZ1z0z2o3&Ns=Pricing|0

DPDT switches:

https://www.mouser.com/Electromechanical/Switches/Toggle-Switches/_/N-5g2jZ1yzvvqx?P=1z0z2xkZ1z0z2qcZ1z0z810Z1z0z80lZ1yy48toZ1yyg5u9Z1z0jl5uZ1z0zlgaZ1z0sf9tZ1z0zlgkZ1yzs6ii&Ns=Pricing%7c0

A center off switch could be mounted so that the on positions are left and right instead of up and down.

_________________
Joe Gores

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 8:02 am Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring

Wiring diagram using a DPDT center-off switch.

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_________________
Joe Gores

John M Tipton

Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

Hi Bob



Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the â€˜Duckworksâ€™ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17

Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LEDâ€™s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated

Regards: John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 10 Nov 2018, at 1:38 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 04:45 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "JOHN TIPTON" <jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com (jmtipton(at)btopenworld.com)>



 Hi Guys (Bob)



 I'm going to incorporate the Perihelion design Wig-Wag (c version) module



  Http://www.periheliondesign.com/wigwagmnl.htm 



 in my landing lights, the call out, wiring diagram 'B' for a single switch is a DP3T, I'm trying to relate this to 'Table 11-1' (S700 series toggle switches) is it a 2-10, if so can you help with the connections



 John



 	


 <337ad9d.jpg> 



   To the best of my knowledge, the device

   depicted does not exist in a toggle switch.

   A 2-10 can be wired for SINGLE pole, three

   position operation which would need a

   couple of diodes added to implement the

   'both-on' function in the center with the

   OFF being full down.



   A 2-1 switch can be used with no added

   diodes but the operation would be BOTH (down),

   OFF (center) and WIGWAG (up).



   I can sketch a schematic for either . . .

   your choice.



   What kind of landing lights are you installing?



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:30 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob



 Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the â€˜Duckworksâ€™ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17



 Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LEDâ€™s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated



 Regards: John 	


  Here 'tis . . .



 [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181110122916.05298400(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img] 



 

 

   Bob . . .

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:19 pm Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 09:36 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 I do not trust switches that depend entirely on rivets to conduct current. 	


   It is true that we've chronicled a hand full

   of failures in the S700 series switches here

   on the List over the years . . . but few

   of the total were precipitated by loosening

   of the rivets.



   Here is one failure analysis conducted

   on a Lister's experience:



  https://tinyurl.com/2a2qqp



 



   This style of switch by Carling was used on

   tens of thousands of TC aircraft for a couple

   decades. Aircraft represent a tiny fraction of

   total sales for the product line.



   The failure rate, while not zero, has been

   exceedingly small and driven mostly by

   the latest generation of strobe lights that

   feature constant power high voltage supplies . . .

   they draw substantially more current during

   pre-flight ops with the engine not running.



   I think a search of the List archives will

   turn up some threads on other failures, most

   having root cause OTHER than loose rivets.



   Bottom line is that while there is good

   cause to be skeptical of the rivets-thru-

   plastic joints, experience has demonstrated

   the mechanical stability of Carling's choice

   of plastic.



 



 

 

   Bob . . .

John M Tipton

Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

Brilliant - thank you



John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob



 Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the â€˜Duckworksâ€™ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17



 Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LEDâ€™s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated



 Regards: John 	


  Here 'tis . . .



 <44257b6.jpg> 



 

 

   Bob . . .

John M Tipton

Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 2:30 pm Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes 



John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob



 Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the â€˜Duckworksâ€™ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17



 Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LEDâ€™s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated



 Regards: John 	


  Here 'tis . . .



 <44257b6.jpg> 



 

 

   Bob . . .

ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 3:15 pm Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

John,Â 

Those are Schottky diodes (which sow up as 'obsolete' on the Digikey web page).

Lots of Shottky dual diodes, and singles as well, on ebay & Amazon.

ex (but no provision for heat sink):

https://smile.amazon.com/AKOAK-Schottky-Blocking-Diodes-15SQ045/dp/B01CXOQMJ8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1541891561&sr=8-4&keywords=schottky+diode



On Sat, Nov 10, 2018 at 4:35 PM John Tipton <john(at)tiptonuk.eu (john(at)tiptonuk.eu)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodesÂ 



John



Sent from my iPad



Â  Â  Â ----x--O--x----

On 10 Nov 2018, at 6:30 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 11:27 AM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hi Bob



 Thank you for your prompt reply: the (ongoing) build is a RV9a currently with the â€˜Duckworksâ€™ standard fit, traditional landing lights, with 100w HID bulbs, through 14awg and a 2-10 (MS spec) switch al a figure: 11-17



 Our intention is to (as technology has moved on) to fit LED landing lights, therefore your wiring of a 2-10 for LEDâ€™s with the Wig-Wag would be appreciated



 Regards: John 	


 Â Here 'tis . . .



 <44257b6.jpg> 



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring

How abouit DSTF3060CR Schottky, 2 diodes in one TO-220-2 package, available at Mouser?  Save on shipping cost by ordering Schottky diodes and current limiters from same source.

_________________
Joe Gores

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:49 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 04:30 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes 	




   Yes. You use the common annode (-) terminal

   as the power input from the switch. Tie the

   AC (~) terminals to each light. Ingnore the

   common cathode (+) termial.



 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 5:52 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 06:10 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com>



 How abouit DSTF3060CR Schottky, 2 diodes in one TO-220-2 package, available at Mouser? 	


   That would work, but the el-cheapo bridge would be good too . . .



  	  Quote: 	
		   Save on shipping cost by ordering Schottky diodes and current limiters from same source. 	




   Current limiters not necessary for anything

   but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and

   even then, their benefit is probably hard

   to quantify.



 

   Bob . . .

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:38 am Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring

 	  Quote: 	
		  Current limiters not necessary for anything 

but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and 

even then, their benefit is probably hard 

to quantify. 	


I only mentioned current limiters because a highly respected contributor to this forum had included them in his drawing posted above.

_________________
Joe Gores

John M Tipton

Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

Hi Bob



Thank you: and for LED landing lights just a simple swap over - yes

John



Sent from my iPad



     ----x--O--x----

On 11 Nov 2018, at 1:49 pm, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    At 04:30 PM 11/10/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  PS: I have a spare Bridge Rectifier, can I use two of the diodes 	




   Yes. You use the common annode (-) terminal

   as the power input from the switch. Tie the

   AC (~) terminals to each light. Ingnore the

   common cathode (+) termial.



 

   Bob . . .

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 2:07 pm Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 > Current limiters not necessary for anything 

 > but the really BIG incandescent lamps . . . and 

 > even then, their benefit is probably hard 

 > to quantify.



 I only mentioned current limiters because a highly respected

 contributor to this forum had included them in his drawing posted above.  	


   Yeah, my bad. The conditional callout

   for current limiters got cropped off

   the original art from Eric's website.



   Did some dynamic studies of the current draw

   by incandescent lamps in wig-wag systems

   about a decade back. Seems 55w and larger

   lamps don't have time to cool off between

   flashes. The only time they present the

   typical cold-lamp inrush is on first

   light . . . every subsequent flash is

   quite benign for 'start up' current.



 

   Bob . . .

John M Tipton

Joined: 07 Aug 2018
Posts: 45
Location: Devon - England

Posted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Wig-Wag wiring

Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a permanently live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would it not be better (good practice) to put this lead on terminal 1, making that lead 'hot' only when the switch is in one of it's two 'on' states - Regards: John

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Nov 18, 2018 5:52 am Post subject: Wig-Wag wiring

At 05:38 PM 11/17/2018, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John M Tipton" <john(at)tiptonuk.eu>



 Hi Bob - Further to your diagram (2-10, Off-Both-Wig-wag) you have a permanently live lead (terminal 2) going to the wig-wag unit, would it not be better (good practice) to put this lead on terminal 1, making that lead 'hot' only when the switch is in one of it's two 'on' states - Regards: John



 	


   The artifact you've cited was left

   over from Eric's original drawing, but

   your suggested modification sure wouldn't hurt . . .



 

   Bob . . .

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