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.020 tail feathers from .016

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bicyclop(at)pacbell.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 5:47 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

Howdy, 



Our 6-a (O-320, Sensenich) suffered tail feather damage at the hands of

a drunk (we assume) who wasn't watching where he was going Saturday

night at Shelter Cove, CA. Beautiful place, no security. I'm fixing to

build new elevators and rudder and am looking at using .020 skins in

place of the, rather easily damaged, .016 skins. Has anybody out there

switched skin thickness and how did it affect your CG? Van's tells me

that it's 6 pounds heavier which seems like a lot that far aft. This is

the non-counter balanced rudder. I'm wondering if the 6 pound figure

includes the counterbalance on the later model rudder. It seems like a

lot for .004 worth of sheet metal on the 3 surfaces.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke

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Gary.A.Sobek

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 217
Location: SoCAL USA

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

I changed from 0.016 to 0.025 on the elevators 8 years ago after pushing my 

airplane into a pole.  I found NO weight difference.  Yes the airplane 

weighted 8 pounds more after painting (weighed on calibrated scales) and the 

elevators but I do not know how much of the 8 pounds was just to the 

elevators.  I assumed it was all paint.



Gary A. Sobek

"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,

1,894 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA

http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com



----Original Message Follows----

Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com






Howdy,



Our 6-a (O-320, Sensenich) suffered tail feather damage at the hands of

a drunk (we assume) who wasn't watching where he was going Saturday

night at Shelter Cove, CA. Beautiful place, no security. I'm fixing to

build new elevators and rudder and am looking at using .020 skins in

place of the, rather easily damaged, .016 skins. Has anybody out there

switched skin thickness and how did it affect your CG? Van's tells me

that it's 6 pounds heavier which seems like a lot that far aft. This is

the non-counter balanced rudder. I'm wondering if the 6 pound figure

includes the counterbalance on the later model rudder. It seems like a

lot for .004 worth of sheet metal on the 3 surfaces.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke

- The Matronics RV-List Email Forum -

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

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retasker(at)optonline.net
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:43 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

Six pounds seems reasonably likely for the change in thickness.   Since 

aluminum weighs approximately 0.0955 lbs/cu. in. and you are adding 

0.004" all over the elevator and rudder it follows that the tail surface 

area would calculate to be 15,700 sq. in. or 109 sq. ft. (6 lbs / 0.0955 

lbs/cu / 0.004" = 15707 sq. in.) which certainly seems to be in the ball 

park.



Dick Tasker



Ed Holyoke wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Howdy, 



Our 6-a (O-320, Sensenich) suffered tail feather damage at the hands of

a drunk (we assume) who wasn't watching where he was going Saturday

night at Shelter Cove, CA. Beautiful place, no security. I'm fixing to

build new elevators and rudder and am looking at using .020 skins in

place of the, rather easily damaged, .016 skins. Has anybody out there

switched skin thickness and how did it affect your CG? Van's tells me

that it's 6 pounds heavier which seems like a lot that far aft. This is

the non-counter balanced rudder. I'm wondering if the 6 pound figure

includes the counterbalance on the later model rudder. It seems like a

lot for .004 worth of sheet metal on the 3 surfaces.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke



 

 

 





  




	


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Bob Perkinson

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 51
Location: Hendersonville, Tennessee

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

Doing a quick square measurement of my -9 rudder and elevators ( not taking

in consideration the Rudder taper or counter weight arms) I come up with

6678 sq inches.  (Rudder 53" X 27" X 2 surfaces = 2862 sq. in., Elevators

17" X 56" X 4 surfaces = 3808 sq. in.  total 6678 sq. in.  If you throw in

another 322 sq. in. for good measure and rounding off the total to 7000 sq.

in.,  and using .0955 lbs/cu. in. you would come up with 2.674 lb.  ( 2.674

/ 0.0955 lbs/cu. in./0.004" = 7000 sq. in. or  48.61 sq. ft. )  Of course

the increase in rivet length might bring the weight up slightly. YMMV



Bob Perkinson

Hendersonville, TN.

RV9 N658RP Reserved

If nothing changes

Nothing changes




Six pounds seems reasonably likely for the change in thickness.   Since

aluminum weighs approximately 0.0955 lbs/cu. in. and you are adding

0.004" all over the elevator and rudder it follows that the tail surface

area would calculate to be 15,700 sq. in. or 109 sq. ft. (6 lbs / 0.0955

lbs/cu / 0.004" = 15707 sq. in.) which certainly seems to be in the ball

park.



Dick Tasker



Ed Holyoke wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  



Howdy,



Our 6-a (O-320, Sensenich) suffered tail feather damage at the hands of

a drunk (we assume) who wasn't watching where he was going Saturday

night at Shelter Cove, CA. Beautiful place, no security. I'm fixing to

build new elevators and rudder and am looking at using .020 skins in

place of the, rather easily damaged, .016 skins. Has anybody out there

switched skin thickness and how did it affect your CG? Van's tells me

that it's 6 pounds heavier which seems like a lot that far aft. This is

the non-counter balanced rudder. I'm wondering if the 6 pound figure

includes the counterbalance on the later model rudder. It seems like a

lot for .004 worth of sheet metal on the 3 surfaces.



Pax,



Ed Holyoke






	


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Please Note:

No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message.  We do concede,

however,

that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily

inconvenienced.

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rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

On 21:36:56 2006-07-18 "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Six pounds seems reasonably likely for the change in thickness.

 Since aluminum weighs approximately 0.0955 lbs/cu. in. and you are

 adding 0.004" all over the elevator and rudder it follows that the

 tail surface area would calculate to be 15,700 sq. in. or 109 sq. ft.

 (6 lbs / 0.0955 lbs/cu / 0.004" = 15707 sq. in.) which certainly

 seems to be in the ball park.


	


109 square feet for the elevator and rudder sounds quite high to me. 

You've got about 10' of span, times about 1' of chord (average) times two

surfaces = 20 square feet of area for both sides of the elevator.  Half

again for the rudder would be about 30 square feet total.  So using your

numbers above, you should be looking at something under 2 lb.



-Rob

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rv7(at)b4.ca
Guest

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 10:00 pm Post subject: .020 tail feathers from .016

On 22:37:04 2006-07-18 "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Of course the increase in rivet

 length might bring the weight up slightly. YMMV


	


I just about said that too... But you included the increase as a uniform

increase across all the surfaces, so the increase in rivet length is

already included (if you assume the density of the rivets is comparable to

the density of the skins, which is reasonable in this case).



-Rob

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