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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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 Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 12:33 pm Post subject: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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I have the opportunity to buy either a used DUC or Woodcomp fixed pitch prop for my europa project. They are both very low use time and well priced. I kind of like the wide chord look of the woodcomp but is the DUC Prop really worth looking into?. They look kind of strange with the narrow chord. Is the pseudo good for takeoff and cruise claim they make real?
Chris
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2018 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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Just to clarify a bit,
I am clear as to the great advantages of constant speed props in an airplane like the Europa. I fly a LongEZ which is really limited by the fact that it can only be fitted with a fixed pitch wood prop. I still manage to get 140-150 knots on 115 HP though so not too bad.
But I can't spend $10K right now on a beautiful constant speed prop for my Europa. And the initial mission for my Europa is short flights to grass fields so for now inexpensive fixed pitch will work fine.
The reason for my question is that I have a friend that swapped props twice in his 912 ULS powered LSA aircraft. One is a WoodComp and another is a DUC. He wants to sell them to me quite inexpensively. But I don't want both so just need to decide if I should get the DUC or the WoodComp. I don't like the way the DUC looks (narrow chord) but if all the hoopla about its "constant speed" characteristics is true then maybe is worth consideration. I am hoping some forum members may have experience with the DUC to share.
Thanks,
Chris
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Ivor
Joined: 23 Jul 2015
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 12:58 am Post subject: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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I have a woodcomp SR3000 and delighted with its performance so slightly biased in my reply,
But if you have access to two props why don’t you try them out on your specific Aircraft and engine combination and make a decision on the performance that ticks most of your boxes,
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:29 am Post subject: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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Chris, I dont think there is any hard evidence about relative performance an my suggestion would be to consider buying both, do proper comparison s, give the Europa community the results, keep the one that works best and sell the other. I am personally biased towards Woodcomp, but having said that I have been impressed by the claims of DUC although have also heard rumours about the relative frailty of the blades.
Regards, David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-11-11 01:45, n7188u wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | --> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com (chmgarb(at)gmail.com)>
Just to clarify a bit,
I am clear as to the great advantages of constant speed props in an airplane like the Europa. I fly a LongEZ which is really limited by the fact that it can only be fitted with a fixed pitch wood prop. I still manage to get 140-150 knots on 115 HP though so not too bad.
But I can't spend $10K right now on a beautiful constant speed prop for my Europa. And the initial mission for my Europa is short flights to grass fields so for now inexpensive fixed pitch will work fine.
The reason for my question is that I have a friend that swapped props twice in his 912 ULS powered LSA aircraft. One is a WoodComp and another is a DUC. He wants to sell them to me quite inexpensively. But I don't want both so just need to decide if I should get the DUC or the WoodComp. I don't like the way the DUC looks (narrow chord) but if all the hoopla about its "constant speed" characteristics is true then maybe is worth consideration. I am hoping some forum members may have experience with the DUC to share.
Thanks,
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484767#484767
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| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:00 am Post subject: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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Thanks for the replies to all.
Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a little limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy a prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature 
One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that may not make sense to everyone.
This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar (essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to buy at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased it.
Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually going to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying to build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the performance of airplanes when they are light (no “frufru” as Rutan used to say) so I am trying to see what all that is about
.
The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member and miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new kit and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa project.
One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my kids up and let them fly (I’m a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for that.
So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components and counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have limited the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum (except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in). But that doesn’t mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa comes about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional “frufru” to make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas.
Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members, it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained from having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The gains I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements, but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what I am planning to do. Don’t get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop to me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy (fixed pitch)!!
Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post
Chris
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Corinthian
Joined: 30 Jan 2018
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:22 am Post subject: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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A bit off subject but I have recently changed from one Europa with a C/S prop to one with a Warp Drive fixed pitch prop and I much prefer the fixed pitch prop. It is pitched at 19 degrees which is a cruise setting and I find it very smooth. I get 120 kts at 5250 revs. Saves weight as well.
David Lewendon
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On 12 Nov 2018, at 15:00, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the replies to all.
Very sensible suggestion to try both props (fun and informative). I am just a little limited in funds available for this project and honestly my plane won't be ready for a year (or most probably more). The opportunity came up to buy a prop now so I am considering it. But yes, I will talk to my friend and see if we can reach a deal. I am certainly curious and tempted to try both props but not sure my wife would be as thrilled of my curious nature
One thing I wanted to share with the group (and getting off topic a little) is the reason for me building the Europa and why I am very careful with the money I spend on it. That may explain why I make decisions (or asks questions) that may not make sense to everyone.
This is not my only plane. I also own a LongEZ which I love and a Kolb Firestar (essentially an ultralight). I really don't need another plane but I love building planes so I asked my wife (and got approval) to find an orphan kit to buy at a relatively low cost and enjoy building it (sorry Marty for calling your plane this but that's how I ended up getting it). I found Europa A291 and purchased it.
Two motivators for this project where that my flying buddies are continually going to grass fields and I can't do that with the LongEZ. Also, most trips are short (less than 100 miles). Too long for the Kolb but short enough not to need a fancy fast plane (much less IFR capable). With that in mind I am trying to build my airplane as light as possible and with almost no instrumentation except for what is absolutely required by law. Designers always rave about the performance of airplanes when they are light (no “frufru” as Rutan used to say) so I am trying to see what all that is about
.
The other motivator, and most important, is that I am a long time EAA member and miss the original's organization charter of constructing a plane for relatively little money. I wanted to demonstrate that there are a number of unfinished projects out there that could be purchased for less than the cost of a new kit and finished for a reasonable amount of money. BTW, it is very hard to beat the price of some good finished airplanes out there. My LongEZ is a fantastic plane and it cost less than what I will have in materials for my low cost Europa project.
One more thing I forgot to mention: I wanted a side by side plane to take my kids up and let them fly (I’m a CFI). The LongEZ is really not a good plane for that.
So there you have it. I have been buying good (and safe) but used components and counting the beans when it comes to how much I spend on the Europa. I have limited the number of mods to keep weight, complexity and build time to a minimum (except for what is mandatory and makes sense once weight is factored in). But that doesn’t mean that once finished, and if the need for a faster Europa comes about, I spend more money on stuff like a CS prop or additional “frufru” to make it as pretty as you guys out there made your Europas.
Regarding speed, and here I may get in trouble with some of the forum members, it seems to me that the biggest gain in performance in the Europa is gained from having a 914 and being able to fly high with the turbocharged engine. The gains I hear from people doing mods, such as CS prop and aerodynamic improvements, but flying the non turbo engine at low altitude are impressive but not sure worth the cost and weight unless you want to fly longer distances than what I am planning to do. Don’t get me wrong, I want a CS prop, just being very pragmatic about making a decision to go that route. the nice thing about CS prop to me is the extra power on takeoff. The LongEZ is a dog on takeoff when heavy (fixed pitch)!!
Now let me see in how much trouble I got for writing this post
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484888#484888
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404
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| Posted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:24 am Post subject: Re: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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Not at all off topic David. And it's great to hear the opinion and experiences form different people. That is what forums are for!
Of course each person's mission is different. Motivations, budgets and opinions also are. And they change over time too.
It's good to hear the warp drive is a good option. They are well priced too. I actually have an IVO prop in my Kolb and I absolutely love the thing. But I heard negative comments in the forum regarding the IVO on the Europa.
Chris
| | - The Matronics Europa-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List |
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Duncan McFadyean
Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219
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| Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:59 am Post subject: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp |
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Chris,
DUC has appeared at the UK LAA rally for the last few years and has been very keen to try the latest type Swirl in a Europa. Initially they were prepared to lend a prop to try, then later wanted full price up front (refundable if returned unmarked as 'unsuitable'); at which point I lost interest.
Your local DUC dealer may be able to offer something better, if you wanted to try first.
Either way, a slippery relatively overpowered aircraft (Europa + 912ULS) can get away easily with a good fixed pitch, unless ultimate short field performance is sought.
Duncan McF.
----Original Message----
From: chmgarb(at)gmail.com
Date: 10/11/2018 20:33
To: <europa-list(at)matronics.com>
Subj: Propeller DUC or Woodcomp
--> Europa-List message posted by: "n7188u" <chmgarb(at)gmail.com>
I have the opportunity to buy either a used DUC or Woodcomp fixed pitch prop for my europa project. They are both very low use time and well priced. I kind of like the wide chord look of the woodcomp but is the DUC Prop really worth looking into?. They look kind of strange with the narrow chord. Is the pseudo good for takeoff and cruise claim they make real?
Chris
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=484755#484755
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n7188u
Joined: 15 Nov 2015
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