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IMC Night application - Propeller
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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Wed May 31, 2017 3:05 am Post subject: IMC Night application - Propeller

Just had a letter from the LAA about my application for IFR/night. Its not been forwarded to the specialist team apparently.

It implies that mine might be first of type - is anyone else downwind or in the circuit?

One of the issues to resolve is my woodcomp prop though; "needing to satisfy the LAA that the leading edge protection qualifies as adequate protection from erosion by rain"

Its certainly got a big fat plastic leading edge well sealed in.

But as far as I am aware I am not forbidden from flying in rain in VFR am I?

I have done fairly often; obviously avoiding where possible. I haven't seen any damage these last 300 hours with my SR3000/3/1625/R/T. I have asked kevin and the factory and await a response. The web site says "environmental tests for determination of propeller resistance against the atmospheric effects as are for example dampness, dustiness etc." 

Rain is a kind of extreme dampness 



Has anyone seen any damage from rain.

Even with IFR on the plaque, I am going to avoid where possible.

_________________
Graeme Bird
kit4 (Wagstaff) TBD
Kit3 G-CLXU (Gregory) mono 914 xs Woodcomp
Kit2 G-PATS - (kesterton) Mono Classic 912 warpdrive
Kit 1 G-UMPY - Mono Classic/XS 912S, Woodcomp G(@)gdbmk.co.uk

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2017 11:42 pm Post subject: IMC night application - propeller

<<..Has anyone seen any damage from rain.>>

Not on Warp Drive blades with metal LE protection, which are sold as being suitable for seaplanes.

Arplast (which don't take kindly to LE protection) is another matter and a (2-pack) paint film comes off pretty quickly.

Does clean the bugs off too!

Duncan McF

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Graeme,



I've just finished (I hope) kitting my plane out for the IFR certification. I'm in the same hangar as Peter Pengilly who is one of the LAA chaps that's made all this possible. I'm waiting for him to get some time and then the next step if for a test pilot to check if the Europa is going to be a suitable model. 



I sounds like you may be a little further along the process than me. Also, I have a Warp Drive carbon(?) prop, so I'm not sure if I'll have the same issue as you regarding the prop.



Perhaps we should compare notes, etc? Two heads and all that. Email or call me if you'd like to chat.



Regards

Carl

07810 565196

cparkinson(at)cisc-uk.com

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Mon Nov 27, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Just thought I'd post an update on the progress towards getting the VFR restriction removed from my Tri-Gear. 



Well, I'm afraid there has been no progress so far. I'm still waiting for the test pilot to get approved by the LAA. I'll let you know when something happens. I'm keeping my fingers crossed it'll be soon.

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 6:16 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Good luck, Carl. I'm curious, how you get on with the IFR-clearance of your bird. That shouldn't be too much of an issue, since our US-Europa friends are flying their Europas in IMC for several years now, I suppose. Well okay - they don't have to deal with the LAA  But to be fair, the LAA is one of the pioneers in Europe on this sector and that deserves my respect. Hopefully others will follow, soon!



So I'm counting on meeting you at Texel next year, no matter what the weather will be like   



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

I'll be there Roland. No problem.

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 6:46 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi All,



A quick update for you.



I am in the very final stages (I hope) of completing the preparation of my Europa (G-URMS) for IMC. I've been in touch with the LAA. Their chief test pilot is planning to test fly it in the next few weeks. All being well it will then be down to just paperwork. Hopefully there will be no changes required to the plane. I'll be writing an article about it for the LAA magazine with details of the whole process once it's complete.



Keep your fingers crossed!



All the best.

Carl

Hitchflight

Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Looking forward to that article!

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:00 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Well. It's happened. My Europa was test flown for IMC and passed. Just the slog of the paperwork to go through now. Common!

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:18 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Great, Carl! Congratulations! I envy you for that.



Now you can visit any fly-in, no matter what the weather is like 



Roland (still limited to day-VFR with the Europa, although in the process for the EIR).

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Thu Nov 15, 2018 7:45 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Unfortunately I still have the slog of the paperwork to get through, and with the LAA having limited resource I'm not sure how long that will take. Just waiting to get it approved for night too.



I had to add a flap position indicator that I could see at night too, so I added the one in the attached picture. It works like a dream and drives the flap input on the Skyview system.



See you in the new year



Carl

Flap-sensor.jpg

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graeme bird

Joined: 15 Jul 2010
Posts: 434

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 12:44 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Wow, that's brilliant. Well done. I'd be interested to know about the hoops and the jumping. I thought I would wait for you to finish as the bold first of type before refreshing my application. Presumably you needed flap position as its trigear?

Was carb heat essential? and you used a standard heated pitot?

I have a mod3 in for some combined strobe/nav lights but its very slow progress on responses (partly by accident I think).

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:01 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Here's the night view of the cockpit.

Cockpit lighting.jpg

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carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:41 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Graeme, 



I'll go into more detail about the hoops once I've jumped through them all, but to answer your other questions:



I fitted a Dynon regulated heated pitot because I've fitted the Dynon systems in the plane, but also because it only pulls the power it needs to reach and maintain temperature. 



I fitted an aux battery that I can cross feed all the avionics from if I have a main battery failure. The heated pitot is fed from this battery, not the main one and a diode arrangement prevents power from being pulled from the main battery whilst still allowing it to be charged from the engine's alternator. 



I fitted a flap sensor as I need to be able to tell their position at night. You'll probably not require that for a monowheel. 



I also fitted a nav radio so I can train for my IR(R) rating in it. I'm unlikely to need it again once I've got it, but it will save me a lot money being able to train in G-URMS.



Regards

Carl

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:33 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

So.G-URMS was tested for night flying tonight. All went well. Touch and go's and a full stop at Blackbushe completed. This should be the final step in the IMC certification. Only the pa paperwork left ( I  hope ).



ATB

Carl

Hitchflight

Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:26 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Congratulations Carl! G-URMS has joined a select group!



Would she also become IR certified on the Permit in addition to the night at the same time? 



Regards



Bob

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:50 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Bob.



Now the night test has been completed a d with the IMC testing passed, the plan is to put the paperwork in for both night and IMC at the same time.



Regards

Carl

Roland

Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 334
Location: EDLE

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Carl,



what will be the the decision hight during ILS-approaches? Any specific limitations in the LAA-Permit? 



Regards

Roland

PH-ZTI

XS TG 914

carlp101

Joined: 07 Mar 2016
Posts: 120

Posted: Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Roland,



The decision height, as I understand, it will depend on the equipment and the rating of the pilot. I think even with the best kit if you have an IR(R) you are limited to 600 feet, but I may be wrong. I'm told that If I have a certified GPS that has WAAS (mine does but is not certified) and a DME the plane can do any approach all the way down to 200', but again I could be wrong. I can change my GPS receiver to a certified version reasonably cheaply, but a DME is costly and may not be worth it. All this is the next stage in the IMC 'adventure'.



ATB



Carl

Hitchflight

Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:22 am Post subject: Re: IMC Night application - Propeller

Hi Carl, Hi Roland



Trust this helps



UK IMC Rating / EASA Instrument Rating  (Restricted) Holder in Current Practice

4.8.2.1 Pilots with a valid Instrument Meteorological Conditions (IMC) Rating or Instrument Rating (Restricted) (IR(R)) are recommended to add 200 ft to the minimum applicable DH/MDH, but with absolute minima of 500 ft for a precision approach and 600 ft for a non-precision approach. The UK IMC Rating / IR(R) may not be valid outside UK territorial airspace, therefore such pilots should check the validity of their rating for the State in which they intend to fly. If the rating is not valid pilots must comply with the basic licence privileges, subject to the regulations of that State.



 The opportunity to obtain a EASA BIR  should make IFR more accessible for Europe. There are many changes coming in 2019. It is important to have the correct licence. At the moment an EASA IR(R) is for EASA PPL only with a Class 1 or 2 medical. It is not available for the EASA LAPL. Noting that the EASA PPL is also an ICAO licence.  



Noting that the basic privileges includes the SVFR which potentially allows flights in a Control zone in poor weather. Coincidently this features on this weeks Europa website Front Page. https://www.theeuropaclub.org The lower limits offered under a SVFR are similar but less “safe” . SVFR requests are less certain to be granted by ATC than an instrument approach.



It’s very different in the United States. Read Jim Butcher's useful opinions on US & UK/Europe here. https://www.theeuropaclub.org/the-europa/ifr-aircraft



Good luck with the training and thanks for persevering with the IFR ambition.



Regards



Bob

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