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Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

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Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:35 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Good morning gents



Just a quick one to ask what you guys are working to with your FAAâ€™s rules regarding HS6/M14P engine life?



In the UK with have agreed engine hours before their overhaul and possibly some extension on condition (on a case by case basis) but I have recently been advised we have a â€˜discussionâ€™ coming up regarding calendar life being imposed (which will probably mean lots of engines being scrapped).



If you have or can point me in the direction of your authorities rules Iâ€™d be most greatful as i will then sift through your regs and can maybe reason with the rule setters to leave things as they are.

Rgs 

M

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 3:59 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Because our CJ's and Yak's are certified in the Experimental category, 

there are no TBO's or life limits on the engines (Housai or M14).

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 12/3/2018 6:35 AM, Harv wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Good morning gents



 Just a quick one to ask what you guys are working to with your FAAÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s rules regarding HS6/M14P engine life?



 In the UK with have agreed engine hours before their overhaul and possibly some extension on condition (on a case by case basis) but I have recently been advised we have a Ã¢â‚¬ËœdiscussionÃ¢â‚¬â„¢ coming up regarding calendar life being imposed (which will probably mean lots of engines being scrapped).



 If you have or can point me in the direction of your authorities rules IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢d be most greatful as i will then sift through your regs and can maybe reason with the rule setters to leave things as they are.

 Rgs

 M





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486101#486101

Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:16 am Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Thanks Dennis

So that also covers your prop and hub with no TBO or calendar life on those?

Also appreciate anymore comments from around the globe, how about rules in Canada? New Zealand and Australia?



Rgs

Martin

dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 4:37 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

That's correct.

Dennis



A. Dennis Savarese

334-546-8182 (mobile)

www.yak-52.com

Skype - Yakguy1



On 12/3/2018 7:16 AM, Harv wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   



 Thanks Dennis

 So that also covers your prop and hub with no TBO or calendar life on those?

 Also appreciate anymore comments from around the globe, how about rules in Canada? New Zealand and Australia?



 Rgs

 Martin





 Read this topic online here:



 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486103#486103

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:10 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On

Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly

to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified

mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine

and propeller) as airworthy.  

George Coy



--

CarterM

Joined: 31 May 2016
Posts: 5

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:20 am Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

In Canada piston engines can go on condition as long as they're not in commercial operation. 



Constant-speed propellers have to be overhauled either: every 10 years from date of installation, or every 1500 hours (single-acting propellers)/2000 hours (double-acting propellers) - whichever comes first.

gardcycl

Joined: 30 May 2012
Posts: 9
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 7:42 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Some Aussie Warbird Reading material on Yaks and CJ, engines and props

  http://australianwarbirds.com.au/engineering/

 

       Engineering | Australian Warbirds Association Ltd

  I would like to bring to the attention of all T6/SNJ/Havard and Wirraway owners, UK CAA AD G-2013-001. The inspection criteria of this AD is a little more comprehensive than the associated FAA AD.

  australianwarbirds.com.au

     

 

  

 

 Regards Peter Gardiner

 

 BRIBIE ISLAND, 

 Queensland...4507

 0417646838

 

 

  

 

  From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of CarterM <cmann1.cm(at)gmail.com>

 Sent: Tuesday, 4 December 2018 1:20 AM

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P  

 

  --> Yak-List message posted by: "CarterM" <cmann1.cm(at)gmail.com>

 

 In Canada piston engines can go beyond TBO as long as they're not in commercial operation. 

 

 Constant-speed propellers have to be overhauled either: every 10 years from date of installation, or every 1500 hours (single-acting propellers)/2000 hours (double-acting propellers) - whichever comes first.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=486109#486109

 

 

 

 

 

 

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dsavarese0812(at)bellsout
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:28 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

George

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding of the regulations that the mechanic signing off the inspection is certifying the aircraft is "In a condition for safe operation" as it says in the aircraft's Operating Limitation.  Not "Airworthy".   Airworthy, by FAA definitions and regulations means the aircraft meets its original Type Certificate (which of course the Yak and CJ do not have) and any STC's (Supplemental Type Certificates) added or removed from the aircraft during its life, plus any Airworthiness Directives (AD's) have also be complied with.

Dennis



       From: George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com>

 To: yak-list(at)matronics.com 

 Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:20 AM

 Subject: RE: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

  

 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "George S. Coy" <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>



Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On



Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly



to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified



mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine



and propeller) as airworthy.  



George Coy



--

GeorgeCoy

Joined: 02 Dec 2010
Posts: 310

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:37 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

While the owner or operator is primarily responsible by this rule it does not relieve the pilot from the responsibility of determining the airworthiness of the aircraft prior to and during a flight (Ref: Section 91.7) or a mechanic from performing airworthy repairs (Ref: Section 43.13).

 

That is what the FARâ€™s say. 

I think the airworthiness with respect to experimental have to do with the special airworthiness certificate not the type certificate, but you could be right as well. Â 

 

Anyway we can split hairs with the lawyers all day, but the point I was making that our experimental aircraft are â€œon conditionâ€ and that is determined by the owner and the person signing it off, not by a set of rules offered up by a government body. 

 

George Coy

 

From: owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-yak-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of A. Dennis Savarese

Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 12:28 PM

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

 

George



Correct me if I'm wrong, but it is my understanding of the regulations that the mechanic signing off the inspection is certifying the aircraft is "In a condition for safe operation" as it says in the aircraft's Operating Limitation.  Not "Airworthy".   Airworthy, by FAA definitions and regulations means the aircraft meets its original Type Certificate (which of course the Yak and CJ do not have) and any STC's (Supplemental Type Certificates) added or removed from the aircraft during its life, plus any Airworthiness Directives (AD's) have also be complied with.



Dennis



 

From: George S. Coy <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>

To: yak-list(at)matronics.com (yak-list(at)matronics.com) 

Sent: Monday, December 3, 2018 10:20 AM

Subject: RE: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P



 

--> Yak-List message posted by: "George S. Coy" <george.coy(at)gmail.com (george.coy(at)gmail.com)>



 



Martin, Just to be clear, the U.S experimental Exhibition category uses "On



Condition" for the life of the engines and propellers. It does NOT mean "Fly



to Failure". The aircraft requires an annual inspection and a FAA certified



mechanic has to sign that he or she considers the aircraft (including engine



and propeller) as airworthy.  



George Coy



 



--

wlannon(at)shaw.ca
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 11:11 am Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Harv.



Canada is different than the US.   There is no Experimental/ Exhibition 

category.  The CJ and other similar aircraft (ex-military and certain other 

aircraft which have never carried a Civil Type Certificate) are licensed 

under a Special C of A, Limited Category.



Maintenance and Inspection requirements are the same as any other Privately 

Registered, Type Certificated aircraft of similar type. ie: Annual 

inspection and certification by a Licensed AME.



As with any other PRIVATELY registered aircraft with a piston type engine 

the engine is automatically On Condition upon aircraft registration.  The 

engine life is governed by condition determined at each Annual.



Not so simple with the propellor!  Transport Canada did us all a big favor 

(according to them) years ago by mandating a 10 year calendar overhaul of 

ALL variable pitch propellors, whether certificated aircraft or not.

The favor was to the owners of cert. types with McCauley or Hartzell props. 

who in the US are subject to manufacturers Service Bulletins recommending 

calendar overhaul at five and six years for various models.  This was not a 

mandated requirement in the US but of course could considered as such by 

insurance companies.  In Canada that was overridden by a 10 year legal 

mandate.



Walt



--

Harv

Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 172

Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2018 5:36 pm Post subject: Re: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

Naturally I do not expect to fly the aircraft until the engine or prop fails. We currently perform in depth annual inspections every 50hrs, annually and every 3 years in accordance with an agreed schedule (mine is specific to my cj6 which was agreed against using the translated Chinese maint document for the required periodic inspections). 



I will look further into the links supplied, with many thanks

Martin

jlpartington(at)reagan.co
Guest

Posted: Wed Dec 12, 2018 2:34 pm Post subject: Engine calendar life HS6/M14P

anyone got a stock CJ-6 engine or two?

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