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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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 Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:23 am Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection
behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator
(Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since
then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed
on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the
insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely
gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident
before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or
is a crimp connector required?
Thanks,
john
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John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:15 pm Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com>
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . .
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 2:10 pm Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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On 12/20/2018 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> (john(at)morgensen.com)
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . . |
Sounds like the failure was in the joint, so... Less than perfect crimp, followed by years of increasing corrosion in the joint, causing resistance heating in the joint?
I solder/heatshrink my fuselinks, but I trust my soldering skills (a couple of careers that required a decent skillset).
Charlie
 Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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I'll fish it out of the trash and send it to you.
john
On 12/20/2018 2:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> (john(at)morgensen.com)
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . . |
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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_________________
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 4:05 pm Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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I forgot to mention that this is a pretty faithful Z13/8 with dual pmags and an S700-2-10 for off/battery/alternator.
john
On 12/20/2018 3:11 PM, Charlie England wrote:
| Quote: | On 12/20/2018 3:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> (john(at)morgensen.com)
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . . |
Sounds like the failure was in the joint, so... Less than perfect crimp, followed by years of increasing corrosion in the joint, causing resistance heating in the joint?
I solder/heatshrink my fuselinks, but I trust my soldering skills (a couple of careers that required a decent skillset).
Charlie
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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_________________
John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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JohnInReno
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 150
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:08 am Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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Bob,
I sent you the old parts minus the "sleeve" and I fabricated a new fuse-link that worked for about 2 flight hours with a new Plane Power 60amp alternator. It failed and when I pulled on the wire, it separated in the middle of the fuse link 22ga. A picture is attached.
The old Plane Power Alternator was retained as a working spare.
I don't know what to do next. It is not popping the 5amp circuit breaker but it is "frying" the 22ga wire.
600 hours on the plane. Originally, a PC680 battery replaced with an EarthX900 two years ago. Plane Power 60amp internally regulated with built in crowbar.
Z-13/8 architecture and the wire that is failing is from the "Main Power Distribution Bus" bolt to pin 5 on the S700-2-10 switch.
At this point, I don't understand what is purpose the fuse-link and why it has started failing.
Thanks for any help,
John Morgensen
On 12/20/2018 2:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> (john(at)morgensen.com)
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . . |
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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John Morgensen
RV-9A - Born on July 3, 2013
RV4 - for sale |
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:33 am Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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On 12/29/2018 12:06 PM, John Morgensen wrote:
| Quote: |
Bob,
I sent you the old parts minus the "sleeve" and I fabricated a new fuse-link that worked for about 2 flight hours with a new Plane Power 60amp alternator. It failed and when I pulled on the wire, it separated in the middle of the fuse link 22ga. A picture is attached.
The old Plane Power Alternator was retained as a working spare.
I don't know what to do next. It is not popping the 5amp circuit breaker but it is "frying" the 22ga wire.
600 hours on the plane. Originally, a PC680 battery replaced with an EarthX900 two years ago. Plane Power 60amp internally regulated with built in crowbar.
Z-13/8 architecture and the wire that is failing is from the "Main Power Distribution Bus" bolt to pin 5 on the S700-2-10 switch.
At this point, I don't understand what is purpose the fuse-link and why it has started failing.
Thanks for any help,
John Morgensen
On 12/20/2018 2:14 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III wrote:
| Quote: | At 01:23 PM 12/20/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: John Morgensen <john(at)morgensen.com> (john(at)morgensen.com)
Two years ago I had an over-voltage event and the crowbar protection behaved as expected. It popped the 5amp breaker. I had the alternator (Plane Power 60amp internal) repaired and it has behaved normally since then. The alternator stopped working this Sunday. The crimp had failed on the 18ga to 22ga fuse-link. Closer inspection revealed that the insulation under the heat shield on the fuse-link was almost completely gone.
Questions:
1. Should I have inspected the fuse-link after the over-voltage incident before putting the plane back in service?
2. Is it acceptable to solder the joint between the 18ga and the 22ga or is a crimp connector required? |
I would really like to have that fusible link
assembly. Can you cut it out and fabricate
a new one?
When you say "gone" . . . is it melted, charred,
evaporated? Was it Tefzel wire?
That link normally carries 3A or less. I've
demonstrated that 22AWG Tefzel will carry
20A indefinitely in the open air.
Some combination of factors stacked up to
cause this particular link to suffer
damage. A good place to start is careful
examination of the link.
Bob . . . |
|
John,
When you said, ' "Main Power Distribution Bus" bolt to pin 5 on the S700-2-10 switch', did you mean literally, or was that just shorthand for fuselink>18ga>breaker>20ga>pin5 ?
Are you absolutely certain that your wiring is an *exact* match for what's shown in Z-13/8?
Any chance your OV crowbar got tied to the supply side of the CB, instead of the load side?
Are you absolutely sure that nothing whatsoever got tied to that feed, somewhere ahead of the CB?
Just spit balling here, but:
22ga wire will carry quite a bit more current than 5A without even damaging the insulation, much less the wire. Burning it twice implies either a much higher load on that wire, or (more likely) a dead short to ground prior to the CB (if the CB is in the circuit). The crowbar circuit could likely survive long enough to fry the wire without damaging the crowbar. If that's happening, that implies either the crowbar is misadjusted, or it's setpoint is drifting, or you're having actual overvoltage events. Do you have data logging of your instruments? Can you check the log for voltage levels over time?
Charlie
(BTW, top-posting after a bottom-posted reply makes for really hard reading)
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1926
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 7:03 pm Post subject: Re: Fuse-able link |
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That wire did not burn open from an overload. There was a dead short to
ground. Either a wire is shorted to ground or else the Over Voltage Module is
tripping (shorting to ground). And that short circuit is upstream from the circuit
breaker. In other words, something is wired incorrectly. Or else the circuit
breaker is defective.
If the wire is connected from the main power bus to pin 5 on the switch, then
it is NOT wired according to Z-13/8. The circuit breaker needs to be between
the fuselink and the over-voltage module.
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:56 pm Post subject: Fuse-able link |
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At 12:06 PM 12/29/2018, you wrote:
| Quote: | Bob,
I sent you the old parts minus the "sleeve" and I fabricated a new fuse-link that worked for about 2 flight hours with a new Plane Power 60amp alternator. It failed and when I pulled on the wire, it separated in the middle of the fuse link 22ga. A picture is attached. |
[img]cid:.0[/img]
The guys are right. There is a hard-fault
condition that is taking out the fusible
link. Somewhere between your bus bar
and the panel mounted circuit breaker.
Bob . . .
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