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Z-14 Switches Preferred...

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wsimpso1

Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Saline MI

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 9:07 am Post subject: Z-14 Switches Preferred...

My first post. I have to assume this has been checked out before, but could not find it...

From my fresh copy of AeroElectric Connection, I have found some surprises... and I am not accustomed to doing circuit design - I am a Mechanical Engineer. Firstissue:

Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14 (which I plan to use on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship) showing a diode bridge for operation of the cross feed contactor;

Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.

Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same electrically,  but which is the preferred set of parts for this system?

Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:

In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L, yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off both masters? 

Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined starter and cross feed. 

So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit? Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version?

Bill Simpson

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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 11:01 am Post subject: Z-14 Switches Preferred...

On Dec 23, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Bill Simpson <wsimpso1(at)comcast.net (wsimpso1(at)comcast.net)> wrote: 	  Quote: 	
		   

My first post. I have to assume this has been checked out before, but could not find it...

From my fresh copy of AeroElectric Connection, I have found some surprises... and I am not accustomed to doing circuit design - I am a Mechanical Engineer. Firstissue:

Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14 (which I plan to use on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship) showing a diode bridge for operation of the cross feed contactor;

Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.

Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same electrically,  but which is the preferred set of parts for this system?

Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:

In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L, yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off both masters? 

Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined starter and cross feed. 

So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit? Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version?

Bill Simpson

Hi Bill,

I don't have my book handy, but the 5400 diode(s) are rated at 3A, while you can buy almost any rating for the diode block. The block is also easier to mount, and easier to heatsink, if required, while the 5400s must be soldered to some kind of support. Your application would determine what is best for you.

Charlie

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yellowduckduo(at)gmail.co
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Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 2:22 pm Post subject: Z-14 Switches Preferred...

My crossfeed does close automatically during cranking if either (or 

both) batteries are available.



I have an older version of Z-14 which also incorporates a little 30 amp 

automotive relay in the control circuit. It uses a simple ON -OFF switch 

that will close the crossfeed whether the battery master is on or off.  

(My crossfeed contactor is fed by both hot batt buss's and don't require 

the battery master to be on).  I leave that crossfeed switch OFF at all 

times unless one alternator has failed.



I think you are referring to a later circuit utilizing a 3 position 

crossfeed switch. It has a continuous ON,  OFF, or momentary crank the 

engine position. I would leave that switch in the OFF position unless 

cranking or after losing one alternator.  The 3 diodes insure that 

current from either side of Z-14 can close the contactor. Normally 

operating with the crossfeed contactor open insures that your low 

voltage warning devices will immediately warn you if one alternator 

drops offline.

Ken



On 23/12/2018 2:00 PM, Charlie England wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 On Dec 23, 2018, at 12:10 PM, Bill Simpson <wsimpso1(at)comcast.net 

 <mailto:wsimpso1(at)comcast.net>> wrote:



     My first post. I have to assume this has been checked out before,

     but could not find it...

     From my fresh copy of AeroElectric Connection, I have found some

     surprises... and I am not accustomed to doing circuit design - I

     am a Mechanical Engineer. Firstissue:

     Page 11-21, Fig 11-22 is supposed to be an excerpt from Z-14

     (which I plan to use on my electrically dependent engine IFR ship)

     showing a diode bridge for operation of the cross feed contactor;

     Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.

     Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same

     electrically,  but which is the preferred set of parts for this

     system?

     Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:

     In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L,

     yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in

     the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the

     (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit

     self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the

     Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off

     both masters?

     Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined

     starter and cross feed.

     So, which switch is the now current right way to build this

     circuit? Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use

     the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we

     go with each version?

     Bill Simpson



     Hi Bill,

     I don't have my book handy, but the 5400 diode(s) are rated at 3A,

     while you can buy almost any rating for the diode block. The block

     is also easier to mount, and easier to heatsink, if required,

     while the 5400s must be soldered to some kind of support. Your

     application would determine what is best for you.



     Charlie

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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun Dec 23, 2018 6:45 pm Post subject: Z-14 Switches Preferred...

 	  Quote: 	
		  



 Appendix Z-14 in my book shows three 1N5400 diodes.



 

 Tracing the diodes in each case, these appear to be the same electrically,  but which is the preferred set of parts for this system? 	


   Either works fine . . . your choice.



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Second issue. The starter cross feed switch on Z-14:



 

 In Appendix Z-14, the switch is labeled S700-2-7, with a Circle L, yet the drawing shows momentary-on the start side but stays on in the cross feed position. 2-7 is an (ON)-OFF-(ON) switch, not the (ON)-OFF-ON shown which seems to be an S700-2-5. Does the circuit self-energize and so does not need the switch to stay the Crossfeed position? If yes, does it disconnect when we turn off both masters? 



 

 Then on page 17-10, Bob proposes the S700-2-50 for the combined starter and cross feed. 



 

 So, which switch is the now current right way to build this circuit? Do I use a diode bridge or three 1N5400 diodes? Do I use the 2-7, the 2-5, or the 2-50? And "for extra credit", why do we go with each version? 	


   2-50 and 2-7 are errors. The latest drawing on

   the website shows that the error was corrected

   when 2-5 was called out at revision P



  [img]cid:7.1.0.9.0.20181223203444.002beff8(at)aeroelectric.com.0[/img] [/b]



 

   Bob . . .

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