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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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 Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:33 pm Post subject: Usa flight question |
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Costa rica and Nicaragua have high winds this time of year.  San Jose is 20G37 today for example.  It is all central and west side so my intention is to stick to the Caribbean side to avoid this, however one never knows.
Fortunately it's all down the runway.  Does anyone have any experience of landing in this sort of wind and any advice?  I've done 16kt straight down the runway which was no drama.
Also Im wondering whether taxing could be an issue.....
Will
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rlborger(at)mac.com
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| Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 5:30 pm Post subject: Usa flight question |
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Will,
I have not landed my Europa as a tri in strong cross winds. Maybe 15 kts of cross wind for the Europa tri is about the max I have had to endure so far. That’s pretty easy. I have landed other aircraft, tri & conventional, in strong cross winds (25-35 kts). The technique I use is a crab into the wind sufficient to maintain a good line to the runway. Add 1/2 the gust value to the normal speed down final. When at the height to flare, use the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway, lower the upwind wing to compensate for drift and land on the upwind wheel first. Maintain runway heading with the rudder as you slow and gently allow the downwind wheel to settle to the runway. Finally, lower the nose wheel to the runway. Brake as needed to your turnoff.
There are other techniques, but this is what works for me. Some folks use upwind wing down on final to maintain centerline rather than crab. That way they are setup for the flare without switching. Others use a little wing down along with a little crab. It’s whatever you find most comfortable.
I’ve not found the Europa tri to be a problem in a cross wind taxi situation. Just keep your controls positioned to pin the aircraft on the ground as you would in any aircraft. I believe that the AOPA has some good videos on cross wind technique.
Blue skies & tailwinds,Bob BorgerEuropa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.3705 Lynchburg Dr.Corinth, TX 76208-5331Cel: 817-992-1117rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)On Dec 26, 2018, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com (wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Costa rica and Nicaragua have high winds this time of year. San Jose is 20G37 today for example. It is all central and west side so my intention is to stick to the Caribbean side to avoid this, however one never knows.Fortunately it's all down the runway. Does anyone have any experience of landing in this sort of wind and any advice? I've done 16kt straight down the runway which was no drama.
Also Im wondering whether taxing could be an issue.....
Will
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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 1:56 am Post subject: Usa flight question |
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Will, I once came back from the Arctic in winds of 30 to 40 kts in air which produced the most turbulent flying conditions I have met Up to around 3000 ft AGL.I landed at Fenland (Norfolk, UK) with actual on final 26 gusting 38 kts fortunately straight down the runway. It wasn’t too troublesome, partly because it is in the middle of a very flat area, but landing in high winds can produce severe turbulence from eddies, if there are nearby high trees, buildings or hills. I would certainly not have attempted to land had it not been very close to runway heading - would have chosen to land in a farm field. There is also increased wind shear to expect on approach - you can suddenly find yourself missing 10+ kts of airspeed, and you should sensibly keep a higher than normal speed until you are fairly close to the ground. Steering a mono was difficult on the ground other than into wind and it was impossible to turn right and only just possible to turn left without someone walking a wing.
Have a good trip. David Joyce, GXSDJ
On 2018-12-26 21:32, William Daniell wrote: | Quote: | Costa rica and Nicaragua have high winds this time of year. San Jose is 20G37 today for example. It is all central and west side so my intention is to stick to the Caribbean side to avoid this, however one never knows. Fortunately it's all down the runway. Does anyone have any experience of landing in this sort of wind and any advice? I've done 16kt straight down the runway which was no drama.
Also Im wondering whether taxing could be an issue.....
Will
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tennant
Joined: 19 Apr 2011
Posts: 121
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| Posted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 5:06 am Post subject: Re: Usa flight question |
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Hi Will,
I have found the Mono to be "relatively good" in side winds. I once landed about vertical in Lydd but with wind down the runway but there was no way I would attempt to taxi back to the runway for a further flight. I was nervous once in Saarbrücken with 18G26 at about 70 deg to runway but she ran straight down the runway, although most uncomfortable in the air!!
Barry
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_________________
Barry Tennant
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At EDLM - Germany |
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budyerly(at)msn.com
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| Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 6:50 am Post subject: Usa flight question |
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Will,
The Trigear is a pussy cat in crosswinds but do consider these things:
The manual says 15 Knots max for cross wind. I have done that on numerous occasions on asphalt and at higher crosswinds.
I will use full flaps up to 15 Knots cross wind. If higher than that, ½ flaps doesn’t increase touchdown speed, but improves roll control somewhat.
Wing low or crab on final is appropriate. Like the mono, a crab approach until the threshold is fine and then a smooth rudder input to align the fuselage with the runway with a touch of aileron to keep the wings at the desired wing low attitude.
One should add ½ the gust factor on final in strong gusty crosswinds for better control. However, that speed must be bled off later.
Touchdown speed is only slightly higher than normal and rarely above 50 unless an unplanned touchdown occurs due to lack of proficiency or turbulence.
WARNING: NO NOT ATTEMPT TO FORCE THE PLANE TO THE GROUND. GO AROUND IF TOO FAST. SET AN APPROACH SPEED, AND USE NORMAL CROSSWIND TECHNIQUES TO ACHIEVE AS CLOSE TO A NORMAL LANDING SPEED AS POSSIBLE.
If unfamiliar with the landing field, plan for a low approach or two to drag the runway to ascertain how the winds will affect your flare and landing. Buildings, trees, ridge lines, burms, and shoreline angles affect the wind direction and even velocity. Landing distances and flare distances are increased in strong crosswinds so plan accordingly.
Note: The roll to yaw coupling in the crab to wing low can be counteracted with a small amount of aileron. Even in a full 15 knot gusty crosswind the transition from crab to wing low is effortless. Turbulence in the flare is another matter. As speed bleeds to touchdown speed, some stirring of the stick is necessary to keep this light airplane precisely aligned and at the desired landing attitude.
I use a crab on final, then approaching the threshold, I transition to my wing low. Rarely do I need to bury the stick into my leg with upwind aileron. About 2-3 inches of stick is all that is required at 50KIAS just prior to touchdown. I plan to land on the upwind wheel and stay on the upwind wheel (yes flying down the runway on one main can be done) increasing the wing low until the plane stops flying and the downwind wheel settles at about 45-50.
After touchdown, hold the nose off until rudder no longer can keep the centerline, which happens very fast. Once the nose wheel is on the ground you are in a steeringless tricycle.
The transition to high speed tricycle must be done instantly when the nose is on the ground. Rudder into the wind and perhaps some upwind brake dragging will be necessary to stay on the centerline until taxi speed. Large rudder inputs are not enough to maintain the centerline as speed decreases, so brake will be required for steering (see taxi below).
Keep some aileron into the wind and increase the amount of aileron into the wind to aid steering as speed decreases. (Some steering can be done with ailerons alone. Try it some time on a nice calm day.)
I keep the stick to neutral to just slightly aft on roll out in gusty conditions to allow the nose gear and brake to do its directional job.
Takeoff is not the reverse.
Take off with 10 degrees of flap minimum for a lower takeoff speed, angle and stall margin. ½ flap is about the max I care to do.
Worst case is left cross, 912S/914, and a constant speed prop for the rudder control during the initial takeoff roll. So some right brake on takeoff roll is necessary for slightly longer than you are used to but only to about 35 Knots.
For very strong cross winds, a good fist full of aileron into the wind is all that is necessary (2-3 inches). In very strong winds, I keep the upwind wheel planted and the aircraft on the centerline until I am above rotation airspeed. Rotation speed is 35 Knots plus ½ gust factor or just rotate at 45 Knots. ROTATE, BUT DO NOT HORSE THE PLANE AIRBORNE. ROTATE ENOUGH TO GET THE NOSE WHEEL OFF THE GROUND AND KEEP THE TAKEOFF ATTITUDE. During the takeoff roll, use rudder and only if needed, a touch of brake to keep the centerline. If you have full aileron in, the plane will roll rapidly up on one wheel which startles many pilots. (The roll rate at 45-50 KIAS in the Europa is quite impressive.) Once the aircraft nose wheel is off the ground at 45, takeoff follows quickly. Allow the aircraft to immediately crab into the wind and neutralize aileron for a wings level climb out. Maintain your takeoff pitch attitude until safely airborne as rollers off of buildings and the like, can cause a downforce that may result in a secondary ground contact immediately after liftoff. Maintain your takeoff attitude and fly the plane out of the turbulence and your gear will take any skips or bumps.
WARNING: DO NOT APPLY FULL AILERON AND HOLD IT ON TAKEOFF IN THE EUROPA UNTIL NOSE ROTATION AS THE AIRCRAFT ROLLS QUITE SHARPLY AT 45 KNOTS AND WILL RAPIDLY PICK UP THE WING. IF YOU HORSE THE PLANE OFF WITH FULL AILERON, IT IS LIKELY YOU WILL STALL THE DOWNWIND WING AND ROLL TO THE OPPOSITE SIDE, THE WIND WILL CONTINUE TO LIFT THE UPWIND WING AND IN A STALLED CONDITION, YOU WILL ENCOUNTER WILD EXCURSIONS AND POSSIBLE LOSS OF CONTROL AND RUNWAY DEPARTURE (CRASH).
Taxi considerations. Long taxi operations in a crosswind with the nose gear shimmy dampener loose will cause the upwind wheel brake to get very hot… Hot enough to melt plastic brake lines that are unprotected or unshielded. A slightly stiff nose gear will allow the wheel to stay in a slight offset to prevent excessive brake use and overheating of your disks and linings. Limit your taxi time in strong cross winds. Taxi using appropriate control for the direction of the crosswind to your taxi. Taxiing downwind leaves you with little or reversed rudder control so your only option is brake steering.
Although the trigear can be planted in a crab at 55 Knots and the nose wheel lowered, and brakes applied as necessary to lower the heart rate, I find it easier to drag the field, ascertain the winds in a very low approach, find where the air is smooth for touchdown, and set up my approach again for the conditions. Crab on final, kick it out prior to the flare, and concentrate on keeping the centerline and achieving that slow flight wing low attitude prior to touchdown about 50 KIAS in a gusty 15 -25 knot cross. HOLD THE WING LOW IN THE ONE WHEEL LANDING ATTITUDE TO KEEP ALIGNMENT UNTIL THE SPEED BLEEDS OFF, THEN DROP TO A TWO POINT, AND ROLL IN THE CROSSWIND RUDDER, KEEPING THE AILERON INTO THE WIND AND SET THE NOSE DOWN USING ONLY NEUTRAL TO SLIGHT BACK PRESSURE ON THE STICK FOR NOSE WHEEL GROUNDING. THEN IMMEDIATELY PUT YOUR HAND ON THE BRAKE HANDLES FOR THAT MOMENT WHEN FLYING CONTROLS WILL NOT MAINTAIN RUNWAY ALIGNMENT.
After landing, check for tire wear and brake heat and if hot, allow to air cool. Tires deflect and in very strong cross winds will drag on a tight fitting pant. (Vibration and tire drag stress the wheel pants so look for cracks as well.) I haven’t had to flip up my main wheel pants for brake cooling , but I did route my brake lines so as to avoid heat from the disk affecting my cheap plastic brake lines. Shielding the brake line is a consideration for those who are frequently faced with long taxi and high cross winds where the brake lines loop inside the wheel well parallel to the brake disk.
Best Regards,
Bud Yerly
Sent from Mail for Windows 10
From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of William Daniell <wdaniell.longport(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, December 26, 2018 4:32:17 PM
To: europa-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Usa flight question
Costa rica and Nicaragua have high winds this time of year. San Jose is 20G37 today for example. It is all central and west side so my intention is to stick to the Caribbean side to avoid this, however one never knows.
Fortunately it's all down the runway. Does anyone have any experience of landing in this sort of wind and any advice? I've done 16kt straight down the runway which was no drama.
Also Im wondering whether taxing could be an issue.....
Will
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wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
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| Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 1:00 pm Post subject: Usa flight question |
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bob,
thanks. Luckily the wind in Central America is very consistent (the trade winds) and 99% of the time aligned straight down the runway. However due to terrain I believe that the approach and subsequent climb out could be pretty uncomfortable with winds at 3000 sometimes reaching 40kt. MROC (sanjose Costa Rica) is 18G36 today for example. Managua which I dont intend to land at is 22kt down the runway. Whereas on the east cost MRLM is 6kt.
Ive landed in 12kt at 90deg and it wasnt an issues. Also I think that with most airports the wind is measured at the tower and once you get close to the ground the friction slows it down quite a bit
yours
Will
William Daniell
LONGPORT
+57 310 295 0744
On Wed, Dec 26, 2018 at 8:32 PM Robert Borger <rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Will,
I have not landed my Europa as a tri in strong cross winds. Maybe 15 kts of cross wind for the Europa tri is about the max I have had to endure so far. That’s pretty easy. I have landed other aircraft, tri & conventional, in strong cross winds (25-35 kts). The technique I use is a crab into the wind sufficient to maintain a good line to the runway. Add 1/2 the gust value to the normal speed down final. When at the height to flare, use the rudder to align the aircraft with the runway, lower the upwind wing to compensate for drift and land on the upwind wheel first.  Maintain runway heading with the rudder as you slow and gently allow the downwind wheel to settle to the runway. Finally, lower the nose wheel to the runway. Brake as needed to your turnoff. Â
There are other techniques, but this is what works for me. Some folks use upwind wing down on final to maintain centerline rather than crab. That way they are setup for the flare without switching. Others use a little wing down along with a little crab. It’s whatever you find most comfortable.
I’ve not found the Europa tri to be a problem in a cross wind taxi situation. Just keep your controls positioned to pin the aircraft on the ground as you would in any aircraft. I believe that the AOPA has some good videos on cross wind technique.
Blue skies & tailwinds,
Bob Borger
Europa XS Tri, Rotax 914, Airmaster C/S Prop (130 hrs).
Little Toot Sport Biplane, Lycoming Thunderbolt AEIO-320 EXP, Hercules Prop.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX Â 76208-5331
Cel: 817-992-1117
rlborger(at)mac.com (rlborger(at)mac.com)
On Dec 26, 2018, at 3:32 PM, William Daniell <Costa rica and Nicaragua have high winds this time of year.  San Jose is 20G37 today for example.  It is all central and west side so my intention is to stick to the Caribbean side to avoid this, however one never knows.
Fortunately it's all down the runway.  Does anyone have any experience of landing in this sort of wind and any advice?  I've done 16kt straight down the runway which was no drama.
Also Im wondering whether taxing could be an issue.....
Will
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