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601XL Build Time
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LHusky(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 2:44 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

I forgot to mention that I have never built anything out of metal  before.  I cut a piece of tin off the roof of the barn once.  I have  92 hrs in the tail section and half of the fuselage.  For me, it is the  quality of parts I am receiving that makes my build go quickly.  Mine is  truly a match and rivet quality.  My rivet lines are laser straight, rivets  are flush and everything is square.  No smiles in the skins.  (Knock  on wood.)  I have only had one piece that did not match up.  Below is  a picture of my stabilizer rear attachment.  I did not have to drill one of  those holes, nor did I have to fabricate the rear attachment.  All this was  done on the machine.  You can see the time savings here alone.  My  whole plane is like this.  I don't think I had to drill one hole in my  firewall either.  You can see that the corners are rounded and all I had to  do was clean up a few edges.  If ZAC could put out parts like this, they  could hit their mark of 500 hrs.  Again, I am LUCKY in having access to the  CNC machine.  Having built from these parts and the rudder from ZAC  parts.  I could see that someone like myself, it would take longer than 500  hrs. 

  

 

 Larry Husky  

 Lakeview, OR  

601XL / Corvair

Building Fuse



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John Bolding

Joined: 23 May 2006
Posts: 281

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 3:55 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

But how many second time builders of the SAME plane would there be...!

Most folks move to something different - usually higher performance or

different mission oriented when they do a second plane.

Next door neighbor scratch built two T-18's, said that the second was about

3/4 the hours of the first. He just finished a scratch built Bearhawk (4000

hrs) said he WASN'T going to do another one of those!!



I've welded up about 2 dozen fuselages for one of the popular ultralights

and there is about a 25% reduction in manhours between the first and the

latest one. I'm a slow learner I guess.



LOW&SLOW   John Bolding

marinegunner(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:06 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

Bob,

 Amazing that security would tell anyone to move on during an open house. Why would they do something like that?

-- 

Semper Fi,

Steven R. Hulland

CH 600 Taildragger

Amado, AZ



This and all other incoming/outgoing email, attachments and replies scanned prior to opening/sending and uses an external firewall to help insure virus free email and attachments.

LHusky(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 4:18 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

I was at the factory in Missouri at the end of May.  They just started  using a CNC router.  It is just for cutting blanks out and drilling some  holes. All the bends and everything else is still done by hand.  I was  amazed to find the same forming blocks that I made at home.  All those  wing ribs and everything else in your kit is still being hand made.  The  only difference is that the flat blanks are cut out with the CNC router  now.  One of the guys told me that up until recently, they were hand  cutting out all the parts.  I took some video of these guys working making  ribs and various other parts.  I do have to commend the factory as being a  first class act.  I arrived and took my demo ride.  Roger then let me  have the plane and I took pictures of anything I wanted.  They then gave me  free range in the factory without an escort.  I enjoyed it a lot.   Learned some interesting things and a few tricks while I was there.  I  would recommend a visit to anyone interested in ZAC.  I have had nothing  but a great experience with the factory in Missouri and thier new shop in  Cloverdale, CA.  

  

 Larry Husky  

Lakeview, OR 

601XL / Corvair

Building Fuse



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ding(at)tbscc.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:28 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

Phyrcooler,

                    I've built the 601xl empennage and wings so far (got a

kit in February), and have found only a couple very minor errors in the

prints that were of little concern. I've found the kit to be very accurately

made, excellent quality. The weakest area is the photo assembly guide, but

it gets the job done. With the kit, you receive a CD with hundreds of pics.

I chose the sections that I needed and Kinko's printed it all out double

sided on punched paper. You can then get index tabs and make your own

ringbound photo assembly manuals. Cost about $50.

                                    Lynn

                                    Corry  PA

                                    601XL

pmoore505(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 7:21 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

Like Jay in Dallas, I'm not building best of show,  but a solid safe aircraft. Builders log filled in daily with accurate time spent  in the shop. All essential building time included but reading  this list and browsing supply catalog time not included. Times are from start to  finish on each section.

  

 Started Sept. 2004

 Rudder = 17  hours

 Stab = 17 hours

 Elevator and trim tab = 27 hours

 Flaps and ailerons w/electric trim = 21  hours

 RH wing = 150 hours (2 leading edge tanks, wing  locker, nav lights, pitot, lift reserve)

 LH wing = 83 hours (2 leading edge tanks, wing  locker, landing/taxi/nav lights)

 Fuse, gear, canopy, motor mount, 0-200 rebuild  = 330 hours

 645 hours total to this point

 Remaining - cowl fitting and most FWF work,  instruments and sensors, interior finish, mounting wings & tail parts,  paint, fitting = another 700 hours!

  

 Airframe construction complete, lacking assembly of  flying surfaces to fuselage. Working on panel layout, instruments in hand. I  would have easily been finished 6 months ago if I would have just done something  every day. But, this IS a hobby, right??

  

 If any of you guys (and gals!) are just aching to  pull another rivet or scuff something up with some Scotchbright (your choice of  colors) come on over! The beer's cold and the chile's hot (your choice of  colors)!!

  

 Paul Moore

 Silver City, NM

 XL - 0200

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frank.hinde(at)hp.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:20 pm Post subject: 601XL Build Time

Like I said when you have the airframe completely finished you are anout

half way there...That puts Ed in about the same place as the rest of us.



Frank



HDS 400 hours

RV7a...Fuse now at the airport! 



--

lgingell

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 50
Location: Lake California Airpark 68CA

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: 601XL Build Time

Airframe took me about 500 hours. 

FWF/Interior/Panel/Wiring too about 200 hours.



..lance

http://lancegingell.com/plane.asp

Zodiac XL/Jabiru 3300

_________________
Zodiac XL/Jab 3300
http://lancegingell.com

dredmoody(at)cox.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 3:52 am Post subject: 601XL Build Time

First, a warning..... none of this is technical info so if it bores you or 

annoys you, hit delete now.



Since I try to answer when think I can help it would be a good idea to state 

my qualifications and lack of same. I've been a pilot for 24 years now but 

still very low time.... 300 hours total. The first 100 in GA, mostly Cessna, 

and the last 200 in an Excalibur ultralight.



I built the Excalibur side by side with a friend building his Excalibur in 

the same workshop (helping each other and learning as we went along). Both 

of us were first time builders. My friend decided last year to build an 

RV7-A and I agreed to be his helper. The learning curve was steep at first 

but another friend who had built an RV7-A offered help, loaned tools etc. 

That was a great help to us both.



Last year I decided that as "WOW" as the RV performance is, I didn't need 

all that. The 601XL does what I want and does it on about 5 gph premium auto 

fuel with a Jabiru 3300 according to some listers who are already flying 

that combo. I attended a rudder workshop in December '05 and flew the demo. 

I was pleased with the entire experience and placed the order for the entire 

kit which arrived 15MAR06. The rest you already know.



Background..... My education is heavy on the math and science end. I've been 

a general dentist for almost 30 years now. As a kid (back in the dinosaur 

days) I followed my dad to work at his truckline whenever I could. I'm not 

half the mechanic he is but I get by. My dad (age 7 is my building partner 

for this plane. My woodworking and other "fix-it" experience probably helps 

some but most of what I know about building airplanes I learned from local 

friends, from research, and from the folks on this and other lists.



All my opinions are just that. None of them have been lab tested but most 

are backed by some experience and have been tested in real life which is 

almost as good (albeit obviously subjective).



Ed



Do Not Archive



PS: I also play guitar and bagpipes if that helps.

 	  Quote: 	
		  

 I am curious however, if Ed Moody could summarize his previous builder 

 experience, if any.  He seems to be on track if he can build both wings 

 and tail in 250 hours...

Phyrcooler

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 9

Posted: Thu Jul 20, 2006 10:27 pm Post subject: Re: 601XL Build Time

Ed - thank you for taking the time you did for your reply.  I was curious as to what type of builder you were - and the relationship between experience and build time.  As noted in another post with someone reporting quite short build times - they appeared to be fairly knowledgeable in the process.  (OK - probably a gross understatement if they have their own CNC equipment!!).    



And while I myself cannot play the bagpipes... my Scottish heritage makes me greatly appreciate those who can make music come out of those instruments!



dj

steveadams

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 191

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 3:53 am Post subject: Re: 601XL Build Time

Comparing build times from different builders is really of little value because everybody compiles their times differently and with varied diligence. It's the same as asking how many years did it take to build the plane. It took me 1 year working regularly, it may have taken someone else 5 years working intermitantly. Who took longer to build their plane? For example, I built my CH640 in about 750 hours from a quickbuild kit. This is from recieving the kit all the way to painted and flying. But what I logged as building time is only time spent in the garage or hanger with my hands on the plane. Every day I went in there I knew what I was going to do, had already reviewed and marked relevant drawings, knew I had everything available to do that portion of the build etc. If I included all the time spent reviewing the plans, tracking down parts and supplies, planning my panel, planning what I was going to do during my next time in the shop, planning the paint scheme, researching paints and avionics, corresponding with Zenair etc etc etc, I could probably at least double the build hours and be pretty accurate. Which number is my build time? 



It is even less reliable in predicting the build quality of the plane. One builder may have a short build time because he was organized, knew and understood the drawings and the procedures during the build, and made few mistakes. On the other hand, the builder with a short build time may have just cruised through the build with the idea of getting it done with little eye for detail. Another builder with a long build time may be reading along as he works, disorganized, not have a good overall concept of the job at hand, make a lot of time consuming mistakes etc. Another builder with a long build time may be so meticulous everything is absolutely perfect. Which one is going to build a better aircraft? It's impossible to say for sure, but overall build time will not be a factor.

Phyrcooler

Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 9

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 2:26 pm Post subject: Re: 601XL Build Time

 	  steveadams wrote: 	
		  Comparing build times from different builders is really of little value because everybody compiles their times differently and with varied diligence. . 	




You bring up many valuable points.  A person with great skills may whip out a kit in 400 hours, and have done a beautiful job.  My brother is so talented with his hands - he'd probably be one to do so.  Conversely, some folks spend so much time overanalyzing things - and coupled with their lack of skills - may take 2000 hours and 5 years to put out a crude product.  



However, my reason for asking hours - and not years, and to also listen to folks' build experiences, is to try to read between the lines on this and other models and get a sense of the product and its relative build time.  I am looking at the various kit build options, both LSA and "standard" experimental aircraft, and trying to get a good sense of how much elephant I am willing to commit to.  I have learned that some are much bigger elephants than others.  And while you eat an elephant one bite at a time... if I can find a junior sized one that meets all my other needs/criterion - than that will be my first kit.



Again - thanks to all of you who have provided feedback.  I know that I and many others who lurk these posts appreciate you taking the time to share your experiences.



dj

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