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cluros(at)gmail.com
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 Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 4:02 pm Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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The alternator on our O-200 intermittently died on a flight today. In total it quit 4 times, the longest for almost 4 minutes. After landing we wiggled all the wires, checked several for continuity, everything looks good. We have no cooling air going to the alternator at the back of the engine and it was a warm day and the engine compartment was very hot.
Is it possible this is a heat problem or definitely wiring / regulator / alternator?
Thank you,
Sebastien
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user9253
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:29 pm Post subject: Re: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Not enough information is given.
How many hours on the alternator?
13.8 volts is low.
One possibility is worn brushes.
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Joe Gores |
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cluros(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2019 9:13 pm Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new.
On Fri, Jul 12, 2019 at 6:35 PM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>
Not enough information is given.
How many hours on the alternator?
13.8 volts is low.
One possibility is worn brushes.
--------
Joe Gores
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=490233#490233
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:34 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:.0[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 7:59 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16bec0e377cd9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
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cluros(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Operating is 14.1, not operating is about 12.7. Please see the link below which I should have sent to start with. I find it strange the way the voltage slowly drops rather than a sharp on/off drop. Maybe I'll try the switch to see what that looks like on the graph.
I will place a voltmeter on the field line next flight.
https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/3309601/fa4df24a-e512-4297-bf73-2a797c6ab36b
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:05 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16bec0e377cd9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
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cluros(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 8:16 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Ford style external regulator wired as per AEC.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:14 Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Operating is 14.1, not operating is about 12.7. Please see the link below which I should have sent to start with. I find it strange the way the voltage slowly drops rather than a sharp on/off drop. Maybe I'll try the switch to see what that looks like on the graph.
I will place a voltmeter on the field line next flight.
https://www.savvyanalysis.com/flight/3309601/fa4df24a-e512-4297-bf73-2a797c6ab36b
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 09:05 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16bec0e377cd9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 9:18 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:part2.E777B17F.1749D556(at)gmail.com[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
 Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:17 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16becc23da6d9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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ceengland7(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 11:57 am Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Hi Ken,
I highlighted & underlined what I thought was Bob's meaning when I read it; the 2nd noun definition. Perhaps the highlight/underline didn't show up in your email client.
If a signal (or power level) is switching on/off rapidly, it's a 'transient' (short term event).
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:22 PM Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
- 949200549652384023lr_dct_sf_subsen" id="gmail-m_263918708704238526gmail-m_-949200549652384023_hAcqXbWIObmF9PwP8JOsMA21" style="display:list-item;list-style-type:disc;font-size:xx-small;margin-left:25px;padding-top:5px">
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16becc23da6d9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_263918708704238526_m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:23 pm Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Thanks Charlie. I think I understand now what Bob is saying.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 12:02 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Ken,
I highlighted & underlined what I thought was Bob's meaning when I read it; the 2nd noun definition. Perhaps the highlight/underline didn't show up in your email client.
If a signal (or power level) is switching on/off rapidly, it's a 'transient' (short term event).
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 2:22 PM Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
- 949200549652384023lr_dct_sf_subsen" id="gmail-m_263918708704238526gmail-m_-949200549652384023_hAcqXbWIObmF9PwP8JOsMA21" style="display:list-item;list-style-type:disc;font-size:xx-small;margin-left:25px;padding-top:5px">
|
|
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16becc23da6d9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
949200549652384023DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2">
Virus-free. www.avast.com [url=#m_1840038890319382137_m_263918708704238526_m_-949200549652384023_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2] [/url]
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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subknave
Joined: 17 Jun 2013
Posts: 17
Location: portsmouth, va
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 3:37 pm Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
|
|
I don't know if it is significant but it seemed to be offline for longer periods each time during the flight. Going by the download you linked to.
| Quote: | On July 13, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England < ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16becc23da6d9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
|
|
Virus-free. www.avast.com
|
|
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cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Sat Jul 13, 2019 5:40 pm Post subject: Alternator Dropping Off Line |
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Yes I found that strange. Each cycle was longer both in duration and in time before the next one. Probably random though.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019, 19:44 r.r.hall(at)cox.net (r.r.hall(at)cox.net) r.r.hall(at)cox.net (r.r.hall(at)cox.net) <r.r.hall(at)cox.net (r.r.hall(at)cox.net)> wrote:
| Quote: |
I don't know if it is significant but it seemed to be offline for longer periods each time during the flight. Going by the download you linked to.
| Quote: | On July 13, 2019 at 3:16 PM Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
Wow, that is certainly an all-inclusive definition.
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 9:24 AM Charlie England < ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | adjective
- 1.
lasting only for a short time; impermanent.
"a transient cold spell"
noun
- 1.
a person who is staying or working in a place for only a short time.
- 2.
a momentary variation in current, voltage, or frequency.
On 7/13/2019 10:58 AM, Ken Ryan wrote:
| Quote: | Bob, what is a "transient" ?
On Sat, Jul 13, 2019 at 7:39 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III < nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | At 12:12 AM 7/13/2019, you wrote:
| Quote: | That 13.8 is at the start of a failure cycle. Normal bus voltage has been 14.1 on the last several flights.
The engine was recently overhauled, I'm trying to find out if the alternator was as well. It looks new. |
Okay, it sounds like this alternator
has no known track record.
[img]cid:16becc23da6d9a3031f1[/img]
I put a 'ruler' on a piece of your
data plot and it appears that alternator
OPERATING is on the order of 13.7v, alternator
OFF is 12.4v or battery only. you've got a
LOT of on/off transients.
Does this alternator have a built in
regulator or external regulator?
If INTERNAL regulator, the alternator
is defective. If EXTERNAL reguator,
you need to put a voltmeter on the
Field terminal during a flight to
see if the transient is upstream
(in the regulator or associate
wiring) or downstream (in the
alternator).
Bob . . .
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