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fuel odor in the cockpit

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diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:14 am Post subject: fuel odor in the cockpit

hello,

I’ve leaking fuel lines located there (see attached) I don’t know if I should replace them (I can’t find it in the europa catalog or spruce) or if I can put a loctite fuel sealant (however I'am afraid of contaminating the circuit...)

What do you recommend ?

Emmanuel

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Kelvin Weston

Joined: 14 Apr 2010
Posts: 90
Location: Hampshire, UK

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 10:49 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Hi Emmanuel



This is a known problem and can be fixed by using fuel resistant silicone hose like Samco ProFuel.



You are already half way to the solution by using the alloy bend.  The original fit used an angled rubber hose which was identified as the source of fuel smells and was also found to deteriorate quite badly.



There is a mod issued by the LAA in the UK - copy of the modification attached and a picture of the finished assembly.

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SM14809 XS fuel filler Iss2.pdf

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_________________
Regards

Kelv Weston
Kit 497
kelv@kdweston.co.uk

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:33 pm Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Thanks

Hitchflight

Joined: 22 Feb 2018
Posts: 94
Location: Derbyshire, England

Posted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 11:55 pm Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Hi Emmanuel 



Everyone in the LAA with a Europa received the official notification you have just seen. 



Major alerts are also announced in the Europa Flyer and the Europa Club website. Particularly useful for those Europa owners and builders who are not resident in the UK and not members of the LAA.

Records from the various sources of mandatory and non mandatory modifications are found within the Building section of the club website.



https://www.theeuropaclub.org/building/europa-mods-and-sbs/laa-standard-mods

Europa Club Modifications Officers continue to maintain this useful archive.



There are a number of sources for these modifications held on the website:-



Factory changes and updates are covered in Europa Service bulletins (Europa SB’s) and Factory Newsletters. You must comply with Europa SBs and any mandatory instructions from your regulatory authority. In the UK these are Mandatory Permit Directives (MPDs) and Airworthness Information Leaflets (AILs). 

Europa Modifications (Europa Mods). These are factory options you may wish to fit.

LAA Standard Mods. These are options fully approved by the LAA

Repeat and other useful mods. These are Mods previously made by builders and approved by the LAA for their aircraft.

Obsolete Mods. These are mandatory modifcations which SHOULD have been carried out already. You should only need to check these once, when completing a new aircraft, but it MUST be done. 

Europa Parts. This section contains details of the parts kits for instruments offered Europa.

The Europa Club may also create an Alert in certain circumstances. Often then superseded by an official comment.



Trust that helps

Regards



Bob

rowlandcarson(at)gmail.co
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:38 am Post subject: fuel odor in the cockpit

See this page for how it should look when sorted:

http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/replace_filler_rubber_f.php



In friendship 



Rowland 



sent from Rowland's iPhone



On 2 Aug 2019, at 19:49, Kelvin Weston <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kelvin Weston" <kelv(at)kdweston.biz (kelv(at)kdweston.biz)>



Hi Emmanuel



This is a known problem and can be fixed by using fuel resistant silicone hose like Samco ProFuel.

gilles(at)elixir-aircraft
Guest

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:21 am Post subject: fuel odor in the cockpit

Le 03/08/2019 à           10:37, Rowland Carson a écrit :

         

      	  Quote: 	
		                See this page for how it should look when             sorted:

       

           

       http://www.rowlandcarson.org.uk/aviation/europa_435/replace_filler_rubber_f.php

         

     	
     

Hi all,     

Please pardon this question from an outsider.     

On several Europa pictures some lines and squares can be seen on       the inside skin of the aircraft.

       Are those lines related to some left-over peel ply, or is there       some other purpose, reason, origin for those lines ?     

Best regards,

          -- 

              

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[b]Gilles THESEE             

Avionics & Systems             

+33 6 61 93 29 74             

 gilles(at)elixir-aircraft.com (gilles(at)elixir-aircraft.com)

                            

[img]cid:part3.FC91ABF6.DE671031(at)elixir-aircraft.com[/img]

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BobD

Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 112
Location: Sheffield UK

Posted: Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:38 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Hi Emmanuel,

 The previous advice from Kelvin, Rowland and Bob is good. The approved LAA Modification can be found here:

http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/TADs/247/MOD80.pdf

I sourced my silicon hoses and clamps  from this UK outfit:

https://www.merlinmotorsport.co.uk/s?search=Samco+ProFue

 However, I found it difficult to tighten the hoses sufficiently to stop a small amount of fulel seeping out. The solution was to spread a thin layer of Hylomar blue on the outside of the aluminium tube where it connects with the silicon tubing, under the clamps. This gives a fuelproof seal to the connection. The sealant can be found here:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0064M6A6G/ref=pe_3187911_189395841_TE_3p_dp_1



Hope this helps

_________________
Bob Dawson
Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:21 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Many thanks

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Sun Sep 15, 2019 1:08 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

I come back because I didn’t solve the problem.

I have a big leak at the ventling outlet. The diameter at the tank outlet is 

2,75-2,82 (it is a little bit ovalised) and the diameter of the outlet aluminium tube is 2,54...

So I don’t know which fuel tube I should use (25, 28?)



Very surprised not to to have a standart tank output diameter...

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 11:06 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Hi, some news...

I purchased a reducer hose 28/25, but couldn’t stop the fuel leaks...

That’s now a mistery... I pray to don’t have a cracked gas tank... I can see no cracks but how to be sure...

I want to try a sealant, what should I use, epoxy resin?

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SwiftTG

Joined: 01 Oct 2018
Posts: 3

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:34 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Emmanuel, Be advised that you can change out the tank. We have a standard scheme that no longer requires the tank to be bonded into the fuselage. This minimises the possibility of cracking in the walls of the tank.



Regards,

_________________
David Stanbridge

Europa Aircraft (2004) Limited
www.europa-aircraft.com

technical@europa-aircraft.com

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 1:43 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Thank you for your reply. I contact you by email.

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:02 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

To locate exactly where your leak is, purchase a kit that has dye that you put into the fuel.  You then use a black light and goggles to find exactly where the  leak is located.  The kit is not expensive and works well.  In the states,  you purchase the kit from an auto parts store.



Jim & Heather

roddyeuropa(at)aol.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 8:05 pm Post subject: fuel odor in the cockpit

Something else you can try is pressurise the tank (a very small amount!) and

listen for leaks, assuming you can do this in a quiet place. This worked for

me, Turned out to be the gasket on the fuel sender. At about .5 psi you

could hear the hiss of escaping air. I think I did this using a valve from a

bike tyre, connected to the vent with some rubber tubing. 

Roddy Kesterton

G-IKRK



--

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:50 pm Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

I must admit l read Roddy's post twice before realising he states 0.5 psi (not 5 psi).  



For reference the CS-VLA requirement is 2.03psi (non-metallic, supported fuel tank).  This is normally factored up by 1.5 for testing purposes, although l don't know what pressure Europa used for their compliance demonstration.  



I think Roddie's advice is sound, however, l found the fuel smell was not a leak but porosity (at a vapour orifice size) which can be cured using a suitable sealer.  Caution is needed to ensure the sealer is MOGAS and Ethanol resistant. Apply on the outside of tank filler trunk and fittings.



Using Super Unleaded with zero ethanol helps reduce the tank porosity derived smell (regional variations exist, check the manufacturer's technical specification and regional delivery guidelines).

_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

diamond

Joined: 21 Apr 2019
Posts: 25

Posted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 4:49 am Post subject: Re: fuel odor in the cockpit

Hi, 

I searched for this kind of sealant but didn’t find...

Though, maybe I solved the leaks issue (not odor) with use of a new hose, and understanding that the little cylinder of the aluminium tube vent must be placed INSIDE the tank vent output (the picture above with the blue hoses is wrong because the tube is not inserted into the tank!!!)

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