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Oh Dear.

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pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:34 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

Hi all,

  

 Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple  of weeks as I could not face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the  old Challenger is still occupying my hangar.

 Last night the forecast was good for the next 3 or  4 days so I decided to rig, fly, and leave her rigged on tie downs.  Wendy  and I rigged without too much trouble and I decided to taxi from the farm yard  out to my hangar on the strip for some fuel I had stored there.

  

 The weather has been very hot and humid for a week  or more so as I was preparing to start the engine I was thinking about the  need to use choke . Luckily I strapped in   The engine  didn`t fire. Cut mags. Set choke. Push starter. No fire. Cut mags, close choke,  mags. ON, push starter. No luck. Reach around to set choke to half. What I  hadn`t realised was that every time I half turned in my seat to alter the choke  my credit cards etc in my left pocket gently nudged the throttle a bit farther  open. Mags on. choke set, Push starter and as you have guessed by now she fired.  Wow! The throttle must have been almost fully open and the Extra shot off across  the yard like a startled rabbit.

  

 Before I realised what had happened let alone done  anything about it, the port wing just outboard of the strut hit a vertical  RSJ 

  ( I Beam?) which formed the corner of a barn  and the Xtra swung sharply round pushing a long dent in the side of a parked car  with the nose of the pod.

  

 If I had not bothered to strap in I would have been  thrown around quite severely. I cut the mags and the prop didn`t impact anything  so the engine is probably OK but the leading edge of the wing was pushed back in  a big gash 2 or 3 feet long and maybe a foot deep, cracking up all the ribs in  that vicinity and bending the aileron tube. The backward force on the wing has  bent one of the diagonals in the cage slightly so that will need a careful check  along with the wing root fastenings.

  

 The ironic thing is that today it has poured with  rain. If the forecaster had suggested that I would not have rigged. Also I have  sold the Challenger. If that had happened 24 hours before, the Kolb would have  been in the hangar ready to go and my mishandling of the throttle would have  resulted in nothing worse than a dash across the field with no obstacle in the  way.

  

 No flying for Pat in the near future.

  

 One thing. I am very impressed by the STOL  characteristics of the Xtra. Wendy reckoned that I was airborne when I hit the  barn and it could not have been more than 40 yards and certainly my backside  told me that I had left the bumpy ground.

  

 All caused by my stupidity.

  

 My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells  Bloody Bells.

  

 Pat

dhkey(at)msn.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 7:51 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

that's a sad story, good luck getting it back into action.



do not archive

 	  Quote: 	
		  From: "pat ladd" <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com>

Reply-To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

To: <kolb-list(at)matronics.com>

Subject: Oh Dear.

Date: Sat, 22 Jul 2006 16:32:30 +0100



Hi all,



Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple of weeks as I could not 

face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the old Challenger is 

still occupying my hangar.

Last night the forecast was good for the next 3 or 4 days so I decided to 

rig, fly, and leave her rigged on tie downs.  Wendy and I rigged without 

too much trouble and I decided to taxi from the farm yard out to my hangar 

on the strip for some fuel I had stored there.



The weather has been very hot and humid for a week or more so as I was 

preparing to start the engine I was thinking about the need to use choke . 

Luckily I strapped in   The engine didn`t fire. Cut mags. Set choke. Push 

starter. No fire. Cut mags, close choke, mags. ON, push starter. No luck. 

Reach around to set choke to half. What I hadn`t realised was that every 

time I half turned in my seat to alter the choke my credit cards etc in my 

left pocket gently nudged the throttle a bit farther open. Mags on. choke 

set, Push starter and as you have guessed by now she fired. Wow! The 

throttle must have been almost fully open and the Extra shot off across the 

yard like a startled rabbit.



Before I realised what had happened let alone done anything about it, the 

port wing just outboard of the strut hit a vertical RSJ

  ( I Beam?) which formed the corner of a barn and the Xtra swung sharply 

round pushing a long dent in the side of a parked car with the nose of the 

pod.



If I had not bothered to strap in I would have been thrown around quite 

severely. I cut the mags and the prop didn`t impact anything so the engine 

is probably OK but the leading edge of the wing was pushed back in a big 

gash 2 or 3 feet long and maybe a foot deep, cracking up all the ribs in 

that vicinity and bending the aileron tube. The backward force on the wing 

has bent one of the diagonals in the cage slightly so that will need a 

careful check along with the wing root fastenings.



The ironic thing is that today it has poured with rain. If the forecaster 

had suggested that I would not have rigged. Also I have sold the 

Challenger. If that had happened 24 hours before, the Kolb would have been 

in the hangar ready to go and my mishandling of the throttle would have 

resulted in nothing worse than a dash across the field with no obstacle in 

the way.



No flying for Pat in the near future.



One thing. I am very impressed by the STOL characteristics of the Xtra. 

Wendy reckoned that I was airborne when I hit the barn and it could not 

have been more than 40 yards and certainly my backside told me that I had 

left the bumpy ground.



All caused by my stupidity.



My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells Bloody Bells.



Pat

George Myers

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 76
Location: San Marcos, Texas

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:17 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

Did it go something like this?

 OK here we go.....come on......come on.........you stupid bugger........whaaaa.......whoaaaaaa...a...aaaaaa....AAAAAAAAAAAA...uh-oh ooooooooooooshucks....OOF!......DARN......DARN DARN DARN! DARNIT ......(while jumping up & down) PHOOEY, PHOOEY, PHOOEY!!!  HECK, PHOOEY, SHUCKS, DARN, DARNIT, DAGNABIT, DOGGONEIT!! FIDDLESTICKS.........

 Yeah, been there, done that & can sympathize.

 George

  

  

 [i]----

slyck(at)frontiernet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

Pat, incredible sequence of events. I'm sure you have replayed it in

your mind several times since.  Most of us have had similar experiences

in the past with various luck in the outcome.

Fixing the wing will keep you out of trouble this winter.



I remember having the triple carb throttle linkage get stuck full open 

on

an old hot rod many years ago.  It was a LONG 30 seconds or so before

I turned off the ignition.  Going a touch faster than a Kolb at the 

time.



-BB do not archive

On 22, Jul 2006, at 11:32 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,

  

 Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple of weeks as I could 

 not face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the old 

 Challenger is still occupying my hangar.

 Last night the forecast was good for the next 3 or 4 days so I decided 

 to rig, fly, and leave her rigged on tie downs.  Wendy and I rigged 

 without too much trouble and I decided to taxi from the farm yard out 

 to my hangar on the strip for some fuel I had stored there.

  

 The weather has been very hot and humid for a week or more so as I was 

 preparing to start the engine I was thinking about the need to use 

 choke . Luckily I strapped in   The engine didn`t fire. Cut mags. Set 

 choke. Push starter. No fire. Cut mags, close choke, mags. ON, push 

 starter. No luck. Reach around to set choke to half. What I hadn`t 

 realised was that every time I half turned in my seat to alter the 

 choke my credit cards etc in my left pocket gently nudged the throttle 

 a bit farther open. Mags on. choke set, Push starter and as you have 

 guessed by now she fired. Wow! The throttle must have been almost 

 fully open and the Extra shot off across the yard like a startled 

 rabbit.

  

 Before I realised what had happened let alone done anything about it, 

 the port wing just outboard of the strut hit a vertical RSJ 

  ( I Beam?) which formed the corner of a barn and the Xtra swung 

 sharply round pushing a long dent in the side of a parked car with the 

 nose of the pod.

  

 If I had not bothered to strap in I would have been thrown around 

 quite severely. I cut the mags and the prop didn`t impact anything so 

 the engine is probably OK but the leading edge of the wing was pushed 

 back in a big gash 2 or 3 feet long and maybe a foot deep, cracking up 

 all the ribs in that vicinity and bending the aileron tube. The 

 backward force on the wing has bent one of the diagonals in the cage 

 slightly so that will need a careful check along with the wing root 

 fastenings.

  

 The ironic thing is that today it has poured with rain. If the 

 forecaster had suggested that I would not have rigged. Also I have 

 sold the Challenger. If that had happened 24 hours before, the Kolb 

 would have been in the hangar ready to go and my mishandling of the 

 throttle would have resulted in nothing worse than a dash across the 

 field with no obstacle in the way.

  

 No flying for Pat in the near future.

  

 One thing. I am very impressed by the STOL characteristics of the 

 Xtra. Wendy reckoned that I was airborne when I hit the barn and it 

 could not have been more than 40 yards and certainly my backside told 

 me that I had left the bumpy ground.

  

 All caused by my stupidity.

  

 My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells Bloody Bells.

  

 Pat

Richard Pike

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 1671
Location: Blountville, Tennessee

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:21 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

What a bummer, you have our sympathies. But at least it seems someone 

was looking out for you, since you didn't mention the airplane having 

any blood on it -

(that always makes a bad situation worse.)



Is the choke on the Xtra located on the fuselage middle vertical tube 

above shoulder height?



Richard Pike

MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)



pat ladd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,

  

 Sad story. <snip>

_________________
Richard Pike
Kolb MKIII N420P (420ldPoops)
Kingsport, TN 3TN0

Forgiving is tough, being forgiven is wonderful, and God's grace really is amazing.

Dave Pelletier

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 100
Location: Prescott, Arizona

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 9:51 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

No flying for Pat in the near future.

  

 My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells  Bloody Bells.

  	  Quote: 	
		      

   Pat

   

   Dear Pat,

    

       Just don't know what to say    except so sorry to hear about your accident.  On the other hand, thank    God you'd fastened the belts.  .....and as I read the "if only's" in your    report, I think of my many "if only's" and the reports of many other    experienced pilots who have had these types of "happenings."  Yes, we all    get pissed and beat ourselves up with "if only's" and "stupidity" kind of    thinking.  But keep in mind that hindsight is 20 - 20 and these things do    happen.  ....and you're right, No flying for Pat in the NEAR future - but    you will be flying again, just maybe not in the near part of future.     

    

   Good luck my friend.

    

   AzDave

    

   Do Not Archive

_________________
AzDave

Eugene Zimmerman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 392

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 1:12 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

On Jul 22, 2006, at 11:32 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   Hi all,



 Sad story.


	


Oh Pat,

I feel the pain of your regret!

Craig.Nelson(at)heraeus.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 2:17 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

   

Pat  

 I can sympathize with you and feel all your grief and pain after all that work, it goes incredibly wrong in a few short minutes. Took me over a year to get started fixing my plane after my encounter of dumb luck. It was hard to look at her. But in the end all is well. Hope you get yours fixed right away  

Uncle craig  

Do not archive         

  

From: owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-kolb-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of pat ladd

 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:33 AM

 To: kolb-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Oh Dear.  

  

     

Hi all,  

    

   

    

Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple of weeks as I could not face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the old Challenger is still occupying my hangar.  

    

All caused by my stupidity.  

    

   

    

My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells Bloody Bells.  

    

   

    

Pat

Mike Schnabel

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Manchester, TN

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 4:22 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

Pat,<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

   

  Sorry to hear about your incident. We all can have mechanical things happen without our knowledge and the only difference between good or bad is the time we have to react. You just did not have the time to react.

   

  But your sad story really does have a bright message. If we do the things we have been taught to do to be safe, we more times than not will survive the unexpected. You may never have had a reason to choose to strap in that cockpit just to taxi out, but you were taught that it was for your  safety so you did. And that discipline to follow safety instructions allowed you to be here explaining what happened. Rather than someone else writing to inform us of your injuries (or worse).

   

  Now all the mushy stuff is over, so get that baby back flying again!

   

  Mike S

  Manchester TN

  Firestar 2 503

  Do not archive

   

  

pat ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		          Hi all,

   

  Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple of weeks as I could not face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the old Challenger is still occupying my hangar.

  Last night the forecast was good for the next 3 or 4 days so I decided to rig, fly, and leave her rigged on tie downs.  Wendy and I rigged without too much trouble and I decided to taxi from the farm yard out to my hangar on the strip for some fuel I had stored there.

   

  The weather has been very hot and humid for a week or more so as I was preparing to start the engine I was thinking about the need to use choke . Luckily I strapped in   The engine didn`t fire. Cut mags. Set choke. Push starter. No fire. Cut mags, close choke, mags. ON, push starter. No luck. Reach around to set choke to half. What I hadn`t realised was that every time I half turned in my seat to alter the choke my credit cards etc in my left pocket gently nudged the throttle a bit farther open. Mags on. choke set, Push starter and as you have guessed by now she fired. Wow! The throttle must have been almost fully open and the Extra shot off across the yard like a startled rabbit.

   

  Before I realised what had happened let alone done anything about it, the port wing just outboard of the strut hit a vertical  RSJ 

   ( I Beam?) which formed the corner of a barn and the Xtra swung sharply round pushing a long dent in the side of a parked car with the nose of the pod.

   

  If I had not bothered to strap in I would have been thrown around quite severely. I cut the mags and the prop didn`t impact anything so the engine is probably OK but the leading edge of the wing was pushed back in a big gash 2 or 3 feet long and maybe a foot deep, cracking up all the ribs in that vicinity and bending the aileron tube. The backward force on the wing has bent one of the diagonals in the cage slightly so that will need a careful check along with the wing root fastenings.

   

  The ironic thing is that today it has poured with rain. If the forecaster had suggested that I would  not have rigged. Also I have sold the Challenger. If that had happened 24 hours before, the Kolb would have been in the hangar ready to go and my mishandling of the throttle would have resulted in nothing worse than a dash across the field with no obstacle in the way.

   

  No flying for Pat in the near future.

   

  One thing. I am very impressed by the STOL characteristics of the Xtra. Wendy reckoned that I was airborne when I hit the barn and it could not have been more than 40 yards and certainly my backside told me that I had left the bumpy ground.

   

  All caused by my stupidity.

   

  My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells Bloody  Bells.

   

  Pat

kfackler(at)ameritech.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:02 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

I had an incident similar to poor Pat's, though much less intense, just  about a week ago. Fortunately there was no damage to me, my plane, or anyone or  anything else. As I was getting out, the edge of my pants pocket caught the  T-handle to my BRS 'chute. The handle popped out of the little cylinder it  normally sits in but didn't pull strongly enough or far enough to deploy it.  Whew! As they say, lesson learned.

  

 Good luck and good speed with your repairs, Pat!

  

 -Ken Fackler

 Kolb Mark II / A722KWF

 Rochester MI

tkrolfe(at)usadatanet.net
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:03 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

pat ladd wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		              Hi all,

    

   Sad story. I have not flown the Xtra for a couple of weeks as I could not face rig, fly, de-rig just for an evening flight and the old Challenger is still occupying my hangar.

 	
 

 Pat,

 

 Oh the pain of it all !!!!!!!!!!  Been there and it isn't a good feeling.

 

 Give yourself some time and then get back at it.   The time is for

 beating yourself up which we all tend to do after something like this!

 

 You "will" fly it again,

 

 Terry -  FireFly #95

beauford(at)tampabay.rr.c
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 22, 2006 5:49 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

Pat:

 Sorry to hear about it...   but,to echo  some of the other Listers, being unhappy and disgusted sure beats the hell out  of being chewed up by that big fan immediately to your rear...or leaving  portions of your anatomy smeared on that automobile it dented...  Good on  'ya for having the discipline to buckle up...

  

 Once she's back on line and you're in the air  again, this will fade to a fine tale to be recounted on winter evenings down at  your favorite watering hole...you'll get many a mile out of  it...     Most of us who have been fooling around  with mechanical thingys for a while have at least one of these episodes  under our belt... Good luck with the repairs.

  

 Are the local bureaucrats likely to give you any  flak over this?

  

 Beauford

 FF #076

 Do not archive

 [quote]   ---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 12:45 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

Is the choke on the Xtra located on the fuselage middle vertical tube

above shoulder height?>>



Yep, and as I am holding the stick back with my right hand I reached across 

with my left to reach the choke. i am pretty sure that it was that twisting 

motion that nudged the throttle forward..

Now it will be left hand on throttle, stick in the crook of my arm somehow 

and press the starter with my big toe.



Thanks everyone for your sympathy. It really helps



Cheers



Pat



--

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

Hells Bloody Bells, indeed.  What a crying shame,  Pat.  Sorry to hear  it.                          Lar.                   Do not Archive.

 [quote]   ---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:05 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

 And that discipline to follow safety  instructions allowed you to be here>>

  

 Hi Mike,

 thanks for your comments. One other thing which has  only occured to me recently is that there was no reason for the engine to stop,  the prop didn`t impact anything so I must have switched the mags off. Can`t  remember doing it but there it is. Training is a wonderful thing.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

Mike Schnabel

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 114
Location: Manchester, TN

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 6:01 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

Cheers back at you Pat!<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" />

   

  Heck, I even gladly hold a toast for your textbook reaction to your unfortunate situation!

   

  What makes knowledge of training mean anything is that when your are in distress, you act with instinct. You do not "think", your training takes over, and it is all "instinct" or natural reaction. You most likely will not remember each move, because it was all so natural thanks to your dedication to your training.

   

  None of us were born with the instinct to shut down a roaring airplane engine, that is something we were taught to do if the situation did not call for the engine to be roaring. And if we were good students, when serious trouble arose, we reacted accordingly, as you did.

   

  THAT reaction that you displayed is a wonderful example of someone who took their training serious. You are here today to expound on your experience ONLY because you were a student who listened and learned. God knows we need more students like you Pat!

   

  The fact a few aluminum tubes were  bent, some fabric torn and needs some mending are minuscule compared to the fact you did the things we ALL should do to preserve the most fragile element, our lives.

   

  You may not feel much joy as you gather your thoughts on your Xtra's repairs, but me for one, I rejoice that you are the one contemplating her repairs, and no one else!

   

  Training saved my behind one time as well, on my first real “round the patch” flight in my new UL the engine died... but thanks to my training, I made a textbook landing, less than 30 seconds after I had no intention to land. Never gave it a thought, just followed my procedures as I was  trained.

   

  Lifting a toast for ya Pat... Cheers!

   

  Mike S

  Manchester TN

  Firestar 2 503 

   

   

  do not archive

  



pat ladd <pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com> wrote:

   	  Quote: 	
		           And that discipline to follow safety instructions allowed you to be here>>

   

  Hi Mike,

  thanks for your comments. One other thing which has only occured to me recently is that there was no reason for the engine to stop, the prop didn`t impact anything so I must have switched the mags off. Can`t remember doing it but there it is. Training is a wonderful thing.

   

  Cheers

   

  Pat

   

  do not  archive

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 8:02 pm Post subject: Oh Dear.

Are the local bureaucrats likely to give you any  flak over this?>>

  

 Hi ,

  

 Dont think so. Private strip and no grief from the  farmer, who saw it all. The plane was legal and insured. No one was hurt,  luckily.

 Scares me to think that Wendy or any of the other  fliers, there are around 10 on site, could have been standing in front instead  of behind. Their machines as well. The mind boggles.

 The guy whose car I hit was away flying his plane  and landed about  5 mins later to find his car dinged. He is happy if I  cover the bodywork repairs.

 Been to the strip this morning. Drained the carb  and the fuel tanks and will remove battery tomorrow and make the first moves  into laying up the engine for a few months.

  

 Thanks for your comments. Everyone on the list has  been very supportive and sympathetic. `There but for the grace of God...`  etc

  

 Isnt it silly that probably for about 10 cents a  relay could be fitted that cut out the starter if the throttle was advanced. In  my car I cannot move the gear lever out of `Park` unless the ignition is  switched on AND I have my foot on the brake.

  

 A similar thing happened here a few years ago when  `The Spirit of Free Enterprise,` a cross Channel roll-on roll-off ferry came out  the harbour in France with the nose still raised. A flood of water came into the  car decks and she rolled over and sank with considerable loss of life. The  owners had been asked several times to fit a camera so that the bridge could see  that the bow was closed but a small relay would have done the job infallibly and  automatically.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 2:24 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

Cheers back at you Pat!>>

  

 Thanks.

 Now I am trying to convince the insurers that  taxying from the rigging point to my hangar for fuel is different to taxying for  take off. Apparently the first is covered but the second is not. Because I  described moving the aircraft as `taxying` that totally confused them. Heigh Ho.  looks like the beginning of a hard trail.

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 dp not archive

John Hauck

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 4639
Location: Titus, Alabama (hauck's holler)

Posted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 10:38 am Post subject: Oh Dear.

All caused by my stupidity.



My lovely newly painted, shiny new plane. Hells Bloody Bells.



Pat

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Hi Pat:



Welcome to the club.



john h



mkIII

_________________
John Hauck
MKIII/912ULS
hauck's holler
Titus, Alabama

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