Matronics Email Lists Forum Index Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
 
 Get Email Distribution Too!Get Email Distribution Too!    FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

New role for the E-Bus?
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
johnbright



Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Location: Newport News, VA

PostPosted: Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:28 pm    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

ceengland7(at)gmail.com wrote:
RE: the FAR23 issue, I was referring to a drawing posted earlier that had multiple relays fed from a bus which itself was already controlled. Most of the loads could have been handled easily by switches.


Charlie


Thanks Charlie... you are correct.... I removed the coil and pump relays... my latest thinking is in that previous post at http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=16775049&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=05


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

_________________
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
N1921R links


Last edited by johnbright on Sat Feb 29, 2020 6:57 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:56 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Quote:
As I said in the reply to Bob, most of the loads in the drawing are 'artifacts' of copy/paste operations from a basic AEC drawing to my Paint program. The only items of significance for our discussion at the moment are the two alternators and the way they connect to the system, vs connecting both to the main bus as shown in other AEC drawings.

I'll ponder the bus tie issue. The reason it's there is a convenient way to get alternator/battery to the main bus if there's a failure in the master control path causing the master contactor to open.

Is there anyone on this list who has experienced
battery contactor failure in flight? I've had
two or three crap but all manifested during
engine cranking.

Even if you did drop the contactor, the alternator
will continue to supply power to the bus . . .
you wouldn't know it was bad until on the
ground . . . probably at engine shut down
when electro-whizzies go dark with the
battery switch still on.

Just found your drawing . . . my bad.

Was down with the crud last weekend, got behind
in my conversations then we had a REALLY busy day
on the EMS crews yesterday . . . finally had time
this morning to sit at the keyboard and ponder a
drawing that was inspired by this thread and has
roots in the old Z8/20.

Here is the work in progress:

https://tinyurl.com/wvmc68v

Only 2 switches. Airplane flies with either switch
in the full up position. No combination of switch
positions is potentially hazardous.

Switches side-by-side . . . easy full shut down
with one motion.

All normal and abnormal operating modes are
pre-flight testable.

Two engine driven power sources, both capable
of delivering power to both buses depending
on switch positions . . .

No always-hot b-leads while parked . . .

Let's massage this a bit . . . perhaps it
should become the more practical successor
to Z13/20


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
cofford



Joined: 01 Jan 2018
Posts: 9
Location: Puget Sound, WA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2020 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:

Here is the work in progress:

https://tinyurl.com/wvmc68v

Only 2 switches. Airplane flies with either switch
in the full up position. No combination of switch
positions is potentially hazardous.

Switches side-by-side . . . easy full shut down
with one motion.

All normal and abnormal operating modes are
pre-flight testable.

Two engine driven power sources, both capable
of delivering power to both buses depending
on switch positions . . .

No always-hot b-leads while parked . . .

Let's massage this a bit . . . perhaps it
should become the more practical successor
to Z13/20


Bob . . .


Hi Bob,

Thank you for this. I do find it interesting (though not surprising) that my own personal designs for an engine bus have basically come back around to a Z12 with a heavy-duty E Bus, or some variation of the same (such as posted above).

Questions: What is the purpose of the overvoltage protection on the aux alt? If I understand the operation of such things correctly, if both alternators are switched on, and an overvoltage condition occurs on either alternator, both crowbars will activate and both alternators will be taken offline. This would mean that normal operation would be to have the aux alt switched off during flight, and not used unless the main alt is lost. I suppose adding overvoltage protection to the aux alt adds protection for a case in which BOTH alternators suffer an overvoltage event, but this seems highly unlikely on the same flight. On the other hand, it really doesn't add much complexity to have a crowbar on the aux alt, so maybe it is a good idea.

I'm a bit unclear what attaching the aux alternator to the Poly E-Bus buys us in this case. Can you elaborate on your thinking here?

Thanks,
Casey


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fritz



Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 7:49 am    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Moving this to the correct thread. Anyone see any issues with Bob's new/proposed architecture for an IO-360 with one mag and one electronic ignition? Would folks recommend the ignition be on the Battery bus?

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z99P1.pdf

thanks

********************

Bob,
It’s been a while since you posted your Z99P1 and I’ve been having problems posting to the list.

I like your proposed architecture. It appears to be a nice evolutionary step from previous architectures and maintains much of the Z12/8 simplicity. Allowing the backup alternator to bypass the main contactor as you’ve shown appears to me to provide a fully redundant path to powering the Poly E-bus. I’m running one electronic ignition and one mag on my IO-360 with conventional injection. This Z99P1 looks good for my use.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 10:49 AM 4/3/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Fritz" <Dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>

Moving this to the correct thread. Anyone see any issues with Bob's new/proposed architecture for an IO-360 with one mag and one electronic ignition? Would folks recommend the ignition be on the Battery bus?

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z99P1.pdf

That was not so much a 'proposal' as the
seed for the evolution of a replacement
for Z12 . . . dual alternator, single battery,
electrically dependent engine.

The Z99 was a first pass sketch that ultimately
moved to the proposal/discussion stage
with Z01.

Z01P3 as presently posted is the latest iteration
and as Joe noted, still needs the 'nits' combed
out.

https://tinyurl.com/qnzenca

No bus requires more than powering up the aircraft
with DC power master switch to become HOT. Any
time the main bus is up, all busses are up
irrespective the position of any other switch.

Given two, robust alternators, the endurance-
bus function is unnecessary. There is no time
that one might expect to operate battery
only.

There is a 'brownout' bus which is optional
and could be 'boosted' during cranking if
the airplane is fitted with any electro-whizzies
vulnerable to cranking brownout. At a minimum,
this bus might power the #1 comm transceiver
whereupon the crew controlled, alternate feed to this
bus could be used to power up just that radio
to get clearance delivery (an optional feature
going into Bonanzas and Barons while I was
still working there).

If the system supports no devices needing
always hot battery power, the battery bus
can also be eliminated. The minimalist
configuration for Z01 would be a MAIN
and ENGINE bus.

The engine bus also features an crew controlled,
alternate feed directly from the battery. There
is no single failure of the power system that
would cause loss of engine.

There are only 4 switches of which only one
has profound control over the status of ship's
power. The other 3 are normally OFF pending
failures that prompt reconfiguration.

Suggested accessories go to simplifying
installation while minimizing costs
and potential pilot workloads.

If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
to refine this configuration with an eye
to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
Dan Fritz



Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Bob,
Maybe it's in there, but if one has to power down the main bus due to smoke/fumes, is the Engine Bus then relegated to battery duration only? Is this an argument for having the aux alternator feed on the other side of the battery contactor?

Dan


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 2:31 pm    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 04:07 PM 4/3/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Fritz" <Dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>

Bob,
Maybe it's in there, but if one has to power down the main bus due to smoke/fumes, is the Engine Bus then relegated to battery duration only? Is this an argument for having the aux alternator feed on the other side of the battery contactor?

Still ruminating over that issue in Z01 . . .
is Z13/8 too small for you?



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
donvansanten(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2020 4:40 pm    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Bob,
I have a dual EFIS dual P-MAG Z 12 system. My Pmags are wired using
the locking version of the 2-10 switch Switch down, master on,
ignition is powered but shorted, switch centered ignition powered,
not shorted, switch up, ignition not powered not shorted. The aircraft
has flown for years with this setup.
The EFIS's have separate power and standby battery ports. The efis
will not boot if only the standby port is powered.. Once the efis
comes on line it will remain online as long as power is applied to
the standby port. I am currently using a TCW 6 A standby battery to
power the efis standby ports. The switch to backup power is not
automatic, the efis starts a count down when main power fails, any
button on the efis being pusher stops the count down and switches the
efis to backup power. Once this mode is entered there is no way to
shut the efis off without turning the backup battery off. This is done
by a ground switch (separate from the main ground wire that provides
the return to the battery) sorry I can not figure a better way to say
that.
My GPS navigator browns out on each start up.

I never talk to clearance delivery before starting the engine and with
the P-Mags, I do not need an engine bus. I also do not have a battery
bus.
I like the idea of ditching the backup battery and using a backup bus.
I am not familiar with the brown out booster and would like ore
information and possible articles about this device.. Thanks in
advance. Don

On Fri, Apr 3, 2020 at 12:22 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III
<nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Quote:

At 10:49 AM 4/3/2020, you wrote:



Moving this to the correct thread. Anyone see any issues with Bob's new/proposed architecture for an IO-360 with one mag and one electronic ignition? Would folks recommend the ignition be on the Battery bus?

http://www.aeroelectric.com/PPS/Adobe_Architecture_Pdfs/Z99P1.pdf
That was not so much a 'proposal' as the
seed for the evolution of a replacement
for Z12 . . . dual alternator, single battery,
electrically dependent engine.

The Z99 was a first pass sketch that ultimately
moved to the proposal/discussion stage
with Z01.

Z01P3 as presently posted is the latest iteration
and as Joe noted, still needs the 'nits' combed
out.

https://tinyurl.com/qnzenca

No bus requires more than powering up the aircraft
with DC power master switch to become HOT. Any
time the main bus is up, all busses are up
irrespective the position of any other switch.

Given two, robust alternators, the endurance-
bus function is unnecessary. There is no time
that one might expect to operate battery
only.

There is a 'brownout' bus which is optional
and could be 'boosted' during cranking if
the airplane is fitted with any electro-whizzies
vulnerable to cranking brownout. At a minimum,
this bus might power the #1 comm transceiver
whereupon the crew controlled, alternate feed to this
bus could be used to power up just that radio
to get clearance delivery (an optional feature
going into Bonanzas and Barons while I was
still working there).

If the system supports no devices needing
always hot battery power, the battery bus
can also be eliminated. The minimalist
configuration for Z01 would be a MAIN
and ENGINE bus.

The engine bus also features an crew controlled,
alternate feed directly from the battery. There
is no single failure of the power system that
would cause loss of engine.

There are only 4 switches of which only one
has profound control over the status of ship's
power. The other 3 are normally OFF pending
failures that prompt reconfiguration.

Suggested accessories go to simplifying
installation while minimizing costs
and potential pilot workloads.

If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
to refine this configuration with an eye
to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.
Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
wsimpso1



Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Saline MI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:


If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
to refine this configuration with an eye
to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.

Bob . . .


Bob,

I would rather you not "retire" Z14. I like it and am planning on using it in my bird - wiring has commenced. My bird is single engine with EFII, glass panel, IFR, night, whole continent capability. Two batteries, two masters, cross-feed, and very low probability of finding myself dark. I am rather attached to that scheme.

Even if it progresses no more because you have a single battery scheme that looks more reliable, I would like to see it remain on-line, perhaps with the caution that another scheme now scores better on FMEA.

Bill Simpson


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
wsimpso1



Joined: 04 Nov 2018
Posts: 33
Location: Saline MI

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:


If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
to refine this configuration with an eye
to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.

Bob . . .


Bob,

I would rather you not "retire" Z14. I like it and am planning on using it in my bird - wiring has commenced. My bird is single engine with EFII, glass panel, IFR, night, whole continent capability. Two batteries, two masters, cross-feed, and very low probability of finding myself dark. I am rather attached to that scheme.

Even if it progresses no more because you have a single battery scheme that looks more reliable, I would like to see it remain on-line, perhaps with the caution that another scheme now scores better on FMEA.

Bill Simpson


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Dan Fritz



Joined: 02 Apr 2020
Posts: 16

PostPosted: Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:12 am    Post subject: Re: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Bob,
I've resumed my build after a 10-year layoff and had installed the 13/8 architecture. Turns our the engine I bought to hand on the firewall already had a B&C 20 Amp alternator hanging on the accessory case. So I've opted to leave it there but keep the 13/8 architecture. I like the Z99 architecture because I can adopt it with very little change to what I've already installed.

Dan


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:51 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 07:30 AM 4/4/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "wsimpso1" <wsimpso1(at)comcast.net>


nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect wrote:
>
>
> If the List is willing, I'd like to continue
> to refine this configuration with an eye
> to retiring Z12 and probably Z14 as well.


I would rather you not "retire" Z14. I like it and am planning on using it in my bird - wiring has commenced. My bird is single engine with EFII, glass panel, IFR, night, whole continent capability. Two batteries, two masters, cross-feed, and very low probability of finding myself dark. I am rather attached to that scheme.

Don't get wrapped around any axles-of-
authority for what's published in the
'Connection. It's your airplane and if
it's performing as-advertised combined
with your complete understanding of it's
operation, then there's no risk for


Our mission here is a compilation
of the best-we-know how to do. To
refine design goals that minimize
complexity, weight, cost of ownership
while minimizing risk.

I suggest that no airplane, motorcycle,
4-wheeler, bass boat or any other high
energy endeavor can be made SAFE.

We can reduce risk through though attention
to history, reverence for good physics,
pride of craftsmanship, a quest for
understanding by all participants and
responsible operation by the pilot.

Quote:
Even if it progresses no more because you have a single battery scheme that looks more reliable,
I would like to see it remain on-line, perhaps with the caution that another scheme now scores better on FMEA.

. . . not 'more' reliable from a performance
perspective but from a cost of ownership
and operations perspective. I don't think I've
every heard of a systems guy getting hammered
'cause he took out things that reduced weight,
cost of ownership and/or simplified system
operation . . . you won't have a failure or
maintenance burden from a part that isn't
installed!

Z-14 performs as advertised but in my never
humble opinion, it is too complex. It served a
purpose of limited utility that is quickly
passing. Electrical power needs are changing
while the reliability of all components
is going up. If N811HB had been fitted with
Z01PX . . . that fine machine might still
be in service with nobody getting hurt.

Revision 12 is in wide distribution both
in print and digitally. Z14 isn't 'going
away.' But if it can be replaced with greater
elegance of design and purpose, then so be it.



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:57 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 10:12 AM 4/4/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Fritz" <Dfritzj(at)yahoo.com>

Bob,
I've resumed my build after a 10-year layoff and had installed the 13/8 architecture. Turns our the engine I bought to hand on the firewall already had a B&C 20 Amp alternator hanging on the accessory case. So I've opted to leave it there but keep the 13/8 architecture. I like the Z99 architecture because I can adopt it with very little change to what I've already installed.

Dan

Watch this space. From my current digs which
I refer to as '100 miles from everywhere', I
have a lot of opportunity for what I call
'asphalt engineering'. Did about 6 hours
of that exercise over the past week.

Had a bit of an epiphany about the evolution
of Z01 (the technical term is brain f(at)&t).
I'm working on the next submission for
everyone's input . . . I think you'll
find it compatible with your desires
cited above.




Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly what I would be looking for on my next aircraft. 

1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost, weight, and maintenance point of view. 
2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8 there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining deems it necessary.
3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup batteries that will power essential systems only for flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut down it's usually fine but every once in a while the engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets, clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself would be something I would use just about every flight.
4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming the norm rather than the exception for new amateur built aircraft.
Regards,
Sebastien
On Sun, Apr 5, 2020 at 9:02 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 10:12 AM 4/4/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Dan Fritz" <Dfritzj(at)yahoo.com (Dfritzj(at)yahoo.com)>

Bob,
I've resumed my build after a 10-year layoff and had installed the 13/8 architecture.  Turns our the engine I bought to hand on the firewall already had a B&C 20 Amp alternator hanging on the accessory case.  So I've opted to leave it there but keep the 13/8 architecture.  I like the Z99 architecture because I can adopt it with very little change to what I've already installed.

Dan

   Watch this space. From my current digs which
   I refer to as '100 miles from everywhere', I
   have a lot of opportunity for what I call
   'asphalt engineering'. Did about 6 hours
   of that exercise over the past week.

   Had a bit of an epiphany about the evolution
   of Z01 (the technical term is brain f(at)&t).
   I'm working on the next submission for
   everyone's input . . . I think you'll
   find it compatible with your desires
   cited above.
 



  Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:08 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote:
Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly
what I would be looking for on my next aircraft.

1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost,
weight, and maintenance point of view.

Probably true for 95+ percent of all
OBAM aircraft.

2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure
will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8
there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that
aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining
deems it necessary.

Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden
the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.
The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,
a significant fraction of SD8 output. That
amount of current would be better used to
keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies
lit up . . . but if your load analysis says
that contactor loads can be handily support
as part of your plan-b loads, then no
problem!

3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup
batteries that will power essential systems only for
flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout
bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your
flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut
down it's usually fine but every once in a while the
engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets,
clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be
useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the
nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus
with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself
would be something I would use just about every flight.

Brown out/endurance/clearance are one
and the same bus. Why nav lights?

4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming
the norm rather than the exception for new amateur
built aircraft.

Yup, the seeds were already in the ground
at my first trip to OSH in '86. There
were a couple electronic ignitions being
offered that year not the least of what
would become LightSpeed.


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Several times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery.

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020, 09:14 Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote:
Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly
what I would be looking for on my next aircraft.

1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost,
weight, and maintenance point of view.

  Probably true for 95+ percent of all
  OBAM aircraft.

2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure
will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8
there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that
aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining
deems it necessary.

  Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden
  the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.
  The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,
  a significant fraction of SD8 output. That
  amount of current would be better used to
  keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies
  lit up . . . but if your load analysis says
  that contactor loads can be handily support
  as part of  your plan-b loads, then no
  problem!

3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup
batteries that will power essential systems only for
flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout
bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your
flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut
down it's usually fine but every once in a while the
engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets,
clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be
useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the
nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus
with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself
would be something I would use just about every flight.

  Brown out/endurance/clearance are one
  and the same bus. Why nav lights?

4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming
the norm rather than the exception for new amateur
built aircraft.

  Yup, the seeds were already in the ground
  at my first trip to OSH in '86. There
  were a couple electronic ignitions being
  offered that year not the least of what
  would become LightSpeed.


  Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 8:46 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden  the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.  The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,  a significant fraction of SD8 output. That  amount of current would be better used to  keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies  lit up . . . but if your load analysis says  that contactor loads can be handily support  as part of  your plan-b loads, then no  problem!

Are solid state contactor loads significantly less than the traditional contactors?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:14 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 12:13 PM 4/5/2020, you wrote:
Bob from what I have seen Z01 would be exactly
what I would be looking for on my next aircraft.

1. Z-14 is too complex for me from a cost,
weight, and maintenance point of view.

  Probably true for 95+ percent of all
  OBAM aircraft.

2. I have no need for an e-bus since an alternator failure
will be detected right away and after switching to the SD-8
there is plenty of time to shut down individual loads that
aren't required at that time if the flight time remaining
deems it necessary.

  Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden
  the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.
  The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,
  a significant fraction of SD8 output. That
  amount of current would be better used to
  keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies
  lit up . . . but if your load analysis says
  that contactor loads can be handily support
  as part of  your plan-b loads, then no
  problem!

3. Since both Garmin and Dynon have excellent backup
batteries that will power essential systems only for
flight and navigation, I was never interested in a brownout
bus. Last year I discovered that if you program your
flight plan into the GPS navigator with the engine shut
down it's usually fine but every once in a while the
engine cranking takes a bit too long and the navigator resets,
clearing out the flight plan. Preventing this would be
useful so now I'm a fan of the brownout bus. Having the
nav lights, one COM and the GPS navigator on that bus
with a clearance delivery switch to power it by itself
would be something I would use just about every flight.

  Brown out/endurance/clearance are one
  and the same bus. Why nav lights?

4. I think electrically dependent engines are becoming
the norm rather than the exception for new amateur
built aircraft.

  Yup, the seeds were already in the ground
  at my first trip to OSH in '86. There
  were a couple electronic ignitions being
  offered that year not the least of what
  would become LightSpeed.


  Bob . . .

--
Stay strong. Read books. Listen to music. Ignore the orange psychopath.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:17 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 11:32 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
I have the Nav lights on anytime the aircraft is electrically powered. Several
times it has saved me from walking away to come back to a dead battery.

You don't have obnoxious notification of low volts?


Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest





PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:19 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

At 11:41 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden
 the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.
 The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,
 a significant fraction of SD8 output. That
 amount of current would be better used to
 keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies
 lit up . . . but if your load analysis says
 that contactor loads can be handily support
 as part of your plan-b loads, then no
 problem!

Are solid state contactor loads significantly less than the traditional contactors?

Yes. I'm not yet convinced that going
solid-state has a useful return on
investment . . . what are you planning
to spend on an SS battery contactor?



Bob . . .


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
kenryan



Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2020 9:35 am    Post subject: New role for the E-Bus? Reply with quote

I'm not planning on an SS contactor, just wondering if that info was factored into the decision of e-bus/no e-bus?

On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 9:26 AM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:

Quote:
At 11:41 AM 4/6/2020, you wrote:
Quote:
Another feature of the e-bus was to unburden
  the SD8 of carrying a battery contactor load.
  The battery contactor is about a 0.7A load,
  a significant fraction of SD8 output. That
  amount of current would be better used to
  keep a couple of solid state electro-whizzies
  lit up . . . but if your load analysis says
  that contactor loads can be handily support
  as part of  your plan-b loads, then no
  problem!

Are solid state contactor loads significantly less than the traditional contactors?

  Yes. I'm not yet convinced that going
  solid-state has a useful return on
  investment . . . what are you planning
  to spend on an SS battery contactor?



  Bob . . .

--
Stay strong. Read books. Listen to music. Ignore the orange psychopath.


- The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum -
 

Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> AeroElectric-List All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 2 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group