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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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 Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 3:39 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Been spending a lot of time under Dr. Dee's
pick-em-up truck lately . . . about 3 weeks
ago it 'died' in front of the post office.
Dug out the meters and poked around in the wiring
to the tank-mounted fuel pump. Voltage at the end
of the wire feeding the pump read battery volts,
but when connected to the pump, the pump was silent
and a clamp-on ammeter showed zero current.
The obvious conclusion was that the pump was
bad . . . fortunately it 'broke' 1/2 mile from
the house and not out in the hinterlands.
Ordered in new tanks, hangar straps and pump-sender
assemblies. The left side tank has never been
useful since we got the truck. With all the
parts in hand and truck up on jacks I launched
into a task in which I had zero experience.
Two weeks later with numerous breaks due
to weather, missing parts and creaky bones,
the new tank is in all wired and plumbed up. But
pressing the magic go-button produced no
result.
Got out the voltmeter and got the SAME
measurements as before ????? Okay, good
volts open circuit, zero volts closed circuit,
what COULD it be? Hmmmm . . . high resistance
in the source lead?
Yup, tried to load the 12v measurement at
the pump end of the wire and the reading went
to zero. Tracking back through the wiring
with various connectors I arrived at the
tank-select switch on the dash to find that
the +supply wire to the switch was just 'stuck'
into the wire grip of a fast-on terminal.
The terminal was black. There was just enough
conduction across the failed joint to offer
a 'good' voltage reading into a high impedance
voltmeter but way too high resistance to power
a pump.
Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel!
I'm wondering if I had trouble-shot the original
diagnosis with my antique Simpson 260 multimeter,
I might have spotted the hi-resistance joint.
Oh well, gonna be up and running soon with some
fine new tanks and pumps!
Had the terminal been properly crimped in the
first place . . .
At least the second tank is going to go in
a lot smoother. Let's hear it for steep
learning curves!
Bob . . .
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rv8iator
Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 145
Location: Newberg, OR
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 4:01 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Bob...
The beauty (not so much) of hi impedance volt meters. Even the good ol' Simpson might not have loaded it enough to see the fault. An incandescent lamp would have saved the day and $$ and pain... but hindsight is alwAYS 20/20.
chris stone
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 4:45 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
Been spending a lot of time under Dr. Dee's
pick-em-up truck lately . . . about 3 weeks
ago it 'died' in front of the post office.
Dug out the meters and poked around in the wiring
to the tank-mounted fuel pump. Voltage at the end
of the wire feeding the pump read battery volts,
but when connected to the pump, the pump was silent
and a clamp-on ammeter showed zero current.
The obvious conclusion was that the pump was
bad . . . fortunately it 'broke' 1/2 mile from
the house and not out in the hinterlands.
Ordered in new tanks, hangar straps and pump-sender
assemblies. The left side tank has never been
useful since we got the truck. With all the
parts in hand and truck up on jacks I launched
into a task in which I had zero experience.
Two weeks later with numerous breaks due
to weather, missing parts and creaky bones,
the new tank is in all wired and plumbed up. But
pressing the magic go-button produced no
result.
Got out the voltmeter and got the SAME
measurements as before ????? Okay, good
volts open circuit, zero volts closed circuit,
what COULD it be? Hmmmm . . . high resistance
in the source lead?
Yup, tried to load the 12v measurement at
the pump end of the wire and the reading went
to zero. Tracking back through the wiring
with various connectors I arrived at the
tank-select switch on the dash to find that
the +supply wire to the switch was just 'stuck'
into the wire grip of a fast-on terminal.
The terminal was black. There was just enough
conduction across the failed joint to offer
a 'good' voltage reading into a high impedance
voltmeter but way too high resistance to power
a pump.
Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel!
I'm wondering if I had trouble-shot the original
diagnosis with my antique Simpson 260 multimeter,
I might have spotted the hi-resistance joint.
Oh well, gonna be up and running soon with some
fine new tanks and pumps!
Had the terminal been properly crimped in the
first place . . .
At least the second tank is going to go in
a lot smoother. Let's hear it for steep
learning curves!
  Bob . . .
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_________________
C. Stone (RV8iator) |
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kenryan
Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 4:13 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Even the gods are fallible! Great story.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 3:45 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)>
Been spending a lot of time under Dr. Dee's
pick-em-up truck lately . . . about 3 weeks
ago it 'died' in front of the post office.
Dug out the meters and poked around in the wiring
to the tank-mounted fuel pump. Voltage at the end
of the wire feeding the pump read battery volts,
but when connected to the pump, the pump was silent
and a clamp-on ammeter showed zero current.
The obvious conclusion was that the pump was
bad . . . fortunately it 'broke' 1/2 mile from
the house and not out in the hinterlands.
Ordered in new tanks, hangar straps and pump-sender
assemblies. The left side tank has never been
useful since we got the truck. With all the
parts in hand and truck up on jacks I launched
into a task in which I had zero experience.
Two weeks later with numerous breaks due
to weather, missing parts and creaky bones,
the new tank is in all wired and plumbed up. But
pressing the magic go-button produced no
result.
Got out the voltmeter and got the SAME
measurements as before ????? Okay, good
volts open circuit, zero volts closed circuit,
what COULD it be? Hmmmm . . . high resistance
in the source lead?
Yup, tried to load the 12v measurement at
the pump end of the wire and the reading went
to zero. Tracking back through the wiring
with various connectors I arrived at the
tank-select switch on the dash to find that
the +supply wire to the switch was just 'stuck'
into the wire grip of a fast-on terminal.
The terminal was black. There was just enough
conduction across the failed joint to offer
a 'good' voltage reading into a high impedance
voltmeter but way too high resistance to power
a pump.
Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel!
I'm wondering if I had trouble-shot the original
diagnosis with my antique Simpson 260 multimeter,
I might have spotted the hi-resistance joint.
Oh well, gonna be up and running soon with some
fine new tanks and pumps!
Had the terminal been properly crimped in the
first place . . .
At least the second tank is going to go in
a lot smoother. Let's hear it for steep
learning curves!
  Bob . . .
===========
-
Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
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art(at)zemon.name
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 5:46 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Bob,
Ugh! That's the story of my life. At least you didn't break something else in the process, requiring a hired $3000 repair.
  -- Art Z.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:56 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel! |
Â
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
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neal.george(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:25 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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I’m happy to hear I’m not the only one…
Neal
| Quote: | On May 14, 2020, at 6:34 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:
Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel!
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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jluckey(at)pacbell.net
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 6:27 pm Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Of course, stuff like that never happens to me....NOT! So glad to hear that I'm not the only one 
War story:
I remember waaayyy back when I was in my 20's and my dad had a set of 12, 24, 32 volt test lamps in is diagnostic kit (along with the Simpson 260, which I have now) and I used to tease him that "it was the digital age" and he was using dinosaur tools. (this was just about the time digital VOM meters were coming out)
Fast forward and my dad just keeps getting smarter & smarter. (he's gone now, but truly wonderful memories!)
-Jeff
On Thursday, May 14, 2020, 06:57:48 PM PDT, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> wrote:
Bob,
Ugh! That's the story of my life. At least you didn't break something else in the process, requiring a hired $3000 repair.
-- Art Z.
On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:56 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Soooo . . . 4 weeks, $300 and lots of uncomplimentary
words later, it appears that root cause was a $1 fix
behind the panel! |
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/If I am not for myself, who will be for me? If I am only for myself, what am I? If not now, when?
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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johnbright
Joined: 14 Dec 2011
Posts: 165
Location: Newport News, VA
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| Posted: Thu May 14, 2020 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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Ha ha... that reminds me of one of my recent diagnostic errors with a gas hot air furnace. Installed new furnace and it was short cycling, it would run for eight minutes and turn off for over temperature then come back on and repeat. Maybe it's a little large for the house and ductwork, same size as the one that came out (input BTU) but maybe more efficient. I've heard this is commonly caused by return duct too small and mine was flex duct which is not smooth inside so I installed 2" larger and metal, smooth on inside. Not fun crouching in attic, assembling sections, screws and aluminum tape on joints, then insulation. The result... same thing, run eight minutes, cool, repeat. OK, I'm not replacing the supply ductwork! Three overtemp sensors, burner, heat exchanger, fan box. A voltmeter across them tells me it's the heat exchanger thermostat that is opening. So I have a bright idea, what if I up the temperature rating of the thermostat? Eight minutes is a long time so it seems it is only barely tripping. That or replace the furnace with a smaller one. I changed the thermostat from 200F to 220F, $15, no more short cycling.
Maybe one of these days I'll replace the fuel tanks/pumps/senders on the 1995 dual tank F150. It runs well on one tank and not so well on the other and the gauge on the good tank does not work.
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_________________
John Bright, RV-6A, at FWF, O-360
Z-101 single batt dual alt SDS EM-5-F.
john_s_bright@yahoo.com, Newport News, Va
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nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2020 11:01 am Post subject: For want of 'gas tight' . . . |
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| Quote: | | I changed the thermostat from 200F to 220F, $15, no more short cycling. |
My momma told me there would be days like that . . .
| Quote: | Maybe one of these days I'll replace the fuel tanks/pumps/senders on the
1995 dual tank F150. It runs well on one tank and not so well on
the other and the gauge on the good tank does not work. |
That's how we've been running Dr. Dee's truck too . .
for about the last 13 years!
Got the 'primary' tank running last night 'hard
plumbed' to the engine as a single tank. Got
a young man coming over Monday to pull the
remaining 'dead' tank. The new 'secondary'
will go back in easy now that I've been-there-
done-that.
I'm going to use the secondary pump to
transfer to the 'primary' tank . . . no
monkey-motion valves and switches. I'm
wanting to play with some po' boy's
capacitance fuel gaging systems. The
'secondary' tank will be available
when I want the long haul capability
but set up with threaded bungs for installation/
removal of various sensor experiments.
Bob . . .
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