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Starter Problem - update

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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 4:36 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch each other without engaging.  No cracks, etc.  I’ve attached a couple pictures in case that helps someone decipher what’s going on.  

   

It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5.  I was wondering if there’s any chance the starter comes with different size gears and perhaps I got the smaller version?  The odd thing is it worked great for awhile.  I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized fuel wasn’t getting to the engine yet and it spun great.  Then it worked a few more times before the engine came to life.  After that it was nothing but trouble.  

   

Thanks,  

Marcus  

   

Do not archive  

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From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Starter Problem  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		    

I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was quite motivational.  However, after letting it run for a couple minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.  This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not spinning as fast as before while starting.  I shut it all down and it appears the starter is no longer engaging properly.  It wore a little of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.  The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are still in place so I am stumped.  With the starter gear retracted it looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.  

   

I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.  

   

Thanks,

 Marcus  

(was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend – possibly more pending the engine issue)  

   

   

   

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jim(at)CombsFive.Com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:11 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Marcus,



It's hard to tell but the gear pitch does not look the same.



I went to the Skytech Web site and found a PDF showing the correct starter for a given engine.



http://www.skytecair.com/Fit_Guide.htm



You might check this out.



Jim Combs

N312F

#40192

Tdawson(at)avidyne.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

I do know that in general there are different numbers of teeth, depending on your flywheel . . .



TDT

40025



--

coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2006 5:32 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Thanks for the effort, very helpful.  Mine is a model 149-12LSX which

(except for the X which I assume is for experimental) it should be good to

go.



Marcus



Do not archive



--

AV8ORJWC

Joined: 13 Jul 2006
Posts: 1149
Location: Aurora, Oregon "Home of VANS"

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:55 am Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Marcus, I am at OSH and the connection is poor but your picture indicates the starter is mounted about 0.25" low of the flywheel.  With the mount the way it is, I would think this starter gear has a smaller diameter than necessary. Aerosport should be good about a correction.

 

John Cox



________________________________



Sent: Sun 7/23/2006 5:29 PM



I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch each other without engaging.  No cracks, etc.  I've attached a couple pictures in case that helps someone decipher what's going on.



 



It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5.  I was wondering if there's any chance the starter comes with different size gears and perhaps I got the smaller version?  The odd thing is it worked great for awhile.  I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized fuel wasn't getting to the engine yet and it spun great.  Then it worked a few more times before the engine came to life.  After that it was nothing but trouble.



 



Thanks,



Marcus



 



Do not archive



th 



 



 



________________________________



[mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM



 



	I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was quite motivational.  However, after letting it run for a couple minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.  This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not spinning as fast as before while starting.  I shut it all down and it appears the starter is no longer engaging properly.  It wore a little of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.  The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are still in place so I am stumped.  With the starter gear retracted it looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.



	 



	I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.



	 



	Thanks,

	Marcus



	(was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend - possibly more pending the engine issue)



	 



	 



	 



	Do Not Archive

Vern(at)teclabsinc.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 11:32 am Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Hi Marcus,  

   

Starter and ring gears do come with different tooth counts. If memory serves me correctly it is 122 or 149 tooth count. This refers to the number of teeth on the ring gear. By counting the teeth you can confirm the ring gear. For the starter you will need to refer to the manufacture for the tooth count. Obviously mixing a ring gear for one count/pitch and the starter for the other count/pitch is a bad thing.  

Hope this helps,  

   

Vern (#40324 shoulder deep in proseal)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 5:30 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Starter Problem - update  

  

   

I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch each other without engaging.  No cracks, etc.  I’ve attached a couple pictures in case that helps someone decipher what’s going on.  

   

It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5.  I was wondering if there’s any chance the starter comes with different size gears and perhaps I got the smaller version?  The odd thing is it worked great for awhile.  I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized fuel wasn’t getting to the engine yet and it spun great.  Then it worked a few more times before the engine came to life.  After that it was nothing but trouble.  

   

Thanks,  

Marcus  

   

Do not archive  

th[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C6AF1C.D5DB9340[/img]  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C6AF1C.D5DB9340[/img]  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Starter Problem  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		    

I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was quite motivational.  However, after letting it run for a couple minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.  This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not spinning as fast as before while starting.  I shut it all down and it appears the starter is no longer engaging properly.  It wore a little of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.  The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are still in place so I am stumped.  With the starter gear retracted it looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.  

   

I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.  

   

Thanks,

 Marcus  

(was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend – possibly more pending the engine issue)  

   

   

   

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coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:18 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Thanks to all for the inputs.  I spoke to Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and he said that if there was a kickback then the starter is designed to bend the shaft and will result in my situation.  They are paying for overnight FedEx for a quick repair and back to me hopefully in time to have the airplane inspected on Sunday.  FWIW everyone I spoke to at Aero Sport about this was absolutely fantastic.  

   

Marcus  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vern W. Smith

 Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 3:30 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: RE: Starter Problem - update  

  

   

Hi Marcus,  

   

Starter and ring gears do come with different tooth counts. If memory serves me correctly it is 122 or 149 tooth count. This refers to the number of teeth on the ring gear. By counting the teeth you can confirm the ring gear. For the starter you will need to refer to the manufacture for the tooth count. Obviously mixing a ring gear for one count/pitch and the starter for the other count/pitch is a bad thing.  

Hope this helps,  

   

Vern (#40324 shoulder deep in proseal)  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2006 5:30 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Starter Problem - update  

  

   

I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch each other without engaging.  No cracks, etc.  I’ve attached a couple pictures in case that helps someone decipher what’s going on.  

   

It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5.  I was wondering if there’s any chance the starter comes with different size gears and perhaps I got the smaller version?  The odd thing is it worked great for awhile.  I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized fuel wasn’t getting to the engine yet and it spun great.  Then it worked a few more times before the engine came to life.  After that it was nothing but trouble.  

   

Thanks,  

Marcus  

   

Do not archive  

th[img]cid:image001.jpg(at)01C6AF66.21273360[/img]  

[img]cid:image002.jpg(at)01C6AF66.21273360[/img]  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus Cooper

 Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Starter Problem  

  

    	  Quote: 	
		    

I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was quite motivational.  However, after letting it run for a couple minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.  This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not spinning as fast as before while starting.  I shut it all down and it appears the starter is no longer engaging properly.  It wore a little of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.  The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are still in place so I am stumped.  With the starter gear retracted it looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.  

   

I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.  

   

Thanks,

 Marcus  

(was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend – possibly more pending the engine issue)  

   

   

   

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pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 5:51 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Marcus Cooper wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		                  v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);} .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  <![endif]-->     st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }  <![endif]-->                    

Thanks to all for the inputs.  I spoke to Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh  and he said that if there was a kickback then the starter is designed to bend the shaft and will result in my situation.  They are paying for overnight  FedEx for a quick repair and back to me hopefully in time to have the airplane  inspected on Sunday.  FWIW everyone I spoke to at Aero Sport about this was absolutely fantastic.      

       

Marcus   

 	
 Do you remember any kickback???

 The most common cause of kickback is the non-impulse mag firing 25 DBTDC (or whatever your engine is set at) so you might want to check your mag wiring.  If you only have a OFF/L/R/BOTH switch and a starter button ..... start on the left mag and switch to both after it's started.  Standard switches with OFF/L/R/BOTH/START disable the right mag ...... if you have it wired up correctly.

 Linn

 do not archive

  	  Quote:

coop85(at)bellsouth.net
Guest

Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Linn,  

    I think I heard it kickback, but it was all kind of a blur to be honest.  I have an impulse mag on the left and a Lightspeed system on the right.  I plan to double check the wiring and mimic what several (Tim Olson, etc) mentioned in a previous post.  

   

Any and all kickback preventative measures relating to this setup would be welcome.  

   

Thanks,

 Marcus  

   

Do not archive  

         

  

From: owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of linn Walters

 Sent: Monday, July 24, 2006 9:52 PM

 To: rv10-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Starter Problem - update  

  

   

Marcus Cooper wrote:

 

   

Thanks to all for the inputs.  I spoke to Bart from Aero Sport at Oshkosh and he said that if there was a kickback then the starter is designed to bend the shaft and will result in my situation.  They are paying for overnight FedEx for a quick repair and back to me hopefully in time to have the airplane inspected on Sunday.  FWIW everyone I spoke to at Aero Sport about this was absolutely fantastic.  

   

Marcus  

Do you remember any kickback???

 The most common cause of kickback is the non-impulse mag firing 25 DBTDC (or whatever your engine is set at) so you might want to check your mag wiring.  If you only have a OFF/L/R/BOTH switch and a starter button ..... start on the left mag and switch to both after it's started.  Standard switches with OFF/L/R/BOTH/START disable the right mag ...... if you have it wired up correctly.

 Linn

 do not archive

Tim(at)MyRV10.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:50 pm Post subject: Starter Problem - update

Yeah, it looks like not much gear meshing going on.  I saw

the other posts about talking to aerosport and the bent shaft

thing.  I'll have to catch up on the thread, but if the shaft

isn't bent, my next step would be to make sure it's mounted as

close as it needs to be.

Tim Olson - RV-10 N104CD - Flying

do not archive

John W. Cox wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Marcus, I am at OSH and the connection is poor but your picture

 indicates the starter is mounted about 0.25" low of the flywheel.

 With the mount the way it is, I would think this starter gear has a

 smaller diameter than necessary. Aerosport should be good about a

 correction.

 

 John Cox

 

 ________________________________

 

 Sent: Sun 7/23/2006 5:29 PM

 

 

 

 I took a hard look at the starter again and there appears to be no

 damage anywhere, other than what you get when spinning parts touch

 each other without engaging.  No cracks, etc.  I've attached a couple

 pictures in case that helps someone decipher what's going on.

 

 

 

 It is a Sky-tec starter on an Aerosport IO-540A4D5.  I was wondering

 if there's any chance the starter comes with different size gears and

 perhaps I got the smaller version?  The odd thing is it worked great

 for awhile.  I cranked it for almost 10 seconds before I realized

 fuel wasn't getting to the engine yet and it spun great.  Then it

 worked a few more times before the engine came to life.  After that

 it was nothing but trouble.

 

 

 

 Thanks,

 

 Marcus

 

 

 

 Do not archive

 

 th

 

 

 

 

 

 ________________________________

 

 [mailto:owner-rv10-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Marcus

 Cooper Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2006 8:07 PM

 

 

 

 I finally got to start my engine today for the first time which was

 quite motivational.  However, after letting it run for a couple

 minutes and checking it over for leaks I tried to start it again.

 This time I was greeted by a horrendous squeal and the prop not

 spinning as fast as before while starting.  I shut it all down and it

 appears the starter is no longer engaging properly.  It wore a little

 of the outside aft edge of the flywheel and looks like either the

 starter gear is too small, or somehow it suddenly was able to drift a

 little further from the flywheel and no longer mates up properly.

 The starter mount nuts look secure and the factory paint cues are

 still in place so I am stumped.  With the starter gear retracted it

 looks like the gears will just barely overlap when it extends.

 

 

 

 I am open to any and all thoughts, theories and suggestions.

 

 

 

 Thanks, Marcus

 

 (was hoping to get inspected today, delayed until next weekend -

 possibly more pending the engine issue)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Do Not Archive

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