 |
Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
 Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2020 1:04 pm Post subject: Lithium Battery Update |
 |
|
End of test. As of May 2020 the Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery is
no longer reliable. It still starts the engine but the voltage drops. That
is six years of good service. There are a few things I learned that I did
not do that could have made the battery last longer? First Lithium
batteries like to have the voltage lowered to a storage level when not in
use. Second every spring I checked the battery cell level and it was
always close but I think I should have balance charged the battery cells to
the top balance charge once a year.
So I just ordered a new Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. The new
batteries are a bit lower priced and now have a built in battery management
system. I also ordered the next larger battery. I had the 270CCA battery at
1.6 lbs with out the battery management system and shortly will have the
much heaver 330CCA battery at 2.6lbs with the battery management system.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> wrote:
[quote] I purchased a Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery last summer. As I
discussed last summer the battery is incredibly light. I received comments
that lithium batteries needed to be recharged often so I left the battery
in the plane last winter in Michigan. The engine started just fine this
week with no recharging.
I have ordered a balance charger and plan to balance the cell voltages
from time to time.
Last summer there was a discussion about Lithium batteries being sold in
AH equivalent capacities. This is true so if you have concerns about
battery powered devices continuing to run after the alternator quits you
may want to order a larger battery no matter what type of battery you
purchase.
Note! There is a notice on the Areovolts web site warning that Rotax
voltage regulator model 866 080 should not be used with these batteries.
They report that these regulators have been known to fail and over charge
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
gdhelton(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2020 3:18 am Post subject: Lithium Battery Update |
|
|
I’m in full agreement with you Rick. I’ve been running a Aerovoltz 270cca in my Firestar for the pass two years. I do use there balance start charger and balance it once a year.I bought larger 330 cca Aerovoltz for my Hummel Ultracruiser that I’m currently building. It runs a 45 hp 1/2 VW. I guess with the built in management, I don’t need this special charger. The new battery doesn’t have the built in plug input like the 270cca battery.
George Helton
Kolb, original Firestar, 2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jun 2, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com> wrote:
End of test. As of May 2020 the Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery is no longer reliable. It still starts the engine but the voltage drops. That is six years of good service. There are a few things I learned that I did not do that could have made the battery last longer? First Lithium batteries like to have the voltage lowered to a storage level when not in use. Second every spring I checked the battery cell level and it was always close but I think I should have balance charged the battery cells to the top balance charge once a year.
So I just ordered a new Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. The new batteries are a bit lower priced and now have a built in battery management system. I also ordered the next larger battery. I had the 270CCA battery at 1.6 lbs with out the battery management system and shortly will have the much heaver 330CCA battery at 2.6lbs with the battery management system.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I purchased a Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery last summer. As I discussed last summer the battery is incredibly light. I received comments that lithium batteries needed to be recharged often so I left the battery in the plane last winter in Michigan. The engine started just fine this week with no recharging.
I have ordered a balance charger and plan to balance the cell voltages from time to time.
Last summer there was a discussion about Lithium batteries being sold in AH equivalent capacities. This is true so if you have concerns about battery powered devices continuing to run after the alternator quits you may want to order a larger battery no matter what type of battery you purchase.
Note! There is a notice on the Areovolts web site warning that Rotax voltage regulator model 866 080 should not be used with these batteries. They report that these regulators have been known to fail and over charge. Apparently there was no fire but a
melt down.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
|
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 1:31 pm Post subject: Lithium Battery Update |
|
|
Ok one final update on my Lithium Iron Phosphate battery test /experience.
| Quote: | I got the new Areovoltz LiFe battery a few days ago and charged the battery as instructed. The manual said the battery was charged to 70% but with a 2 amp charge rate it went to 14.4 volts in 10 minutes. When it got to 14.4 volts the charger backed off and maintained 14.39 to 14.40 volts, after just a few minutes I got a message "Connection Break". Wow if I had been flying it would have been a second forced landing. The manufacturer said it would not disconnect till it got to 16 plus volts and heated some but it didn't, it disconnected at 14.4 volts! The charger was set for safe charging LiFe batteries and it never exceeded the maximum safe voltage. I can't live with that. I'm returning the battery.
The new battery has a built in "Battery Management System" that protects the battery and it seems to be doing that but the alternator regulator in my plane regularly charges to about 14 volts in recharge mode then backs off once the battery is charged. The Old LiFe battery without the BMS never had a problem with it. I have an electronic ignition system that requires battery filtered power to operate, it will NOT operate on alternator only power so if the battery disconnects in flight the engine will quit. As the old LiFe aged I would see voltages slightly above 14.0 volts on occasion so having a BMS that disconnects the battery when the operating voltage is just .4 volts away it is just too close.
As usual worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
|
On Wed, Jun 3, 2020 at 7:20 AM George Helton <gdhelton(at)gmail.com (gdhelton(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I’m in full agreement with you Rick. I’ve been running a Aerovoltz 270cca in my Firestar for the pass two years. I do use there balance start charger and balance it once a year. I bought larger 330 cca Aerovoltz for my Hummel Ultracruiser that I’m currently building. It runs a 45 hp 1/2 VW. I guess with the built in management, I don’t need this special charger. The new battery doesn’t have the built in plug input like the 270cca battery.
George Helton
Kolb, original Firestar, 2702 Hirth
14GDH
Mesick, Michigan
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Jun 2, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
End of test. As of May 2020 the Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery is no longer reliable. It still starts the engine but the voltage drops. That is six years of good service. There are a few things I learned that I did not do that could have made the battery last longer? First Lithium batteries like to have the voltage lowered to a storage level when not in use. Second every spring I checked the battery cell level and it was always close but I think I should have balance charged the battery cells to the top balance charge once a year.
So I just ordered a new Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery. The new batteries are a bit lower priced and now have a built in battery management system. I also ordered the next larger battery. I had the 270CCA battery at 1.6 lbs with out the battery management system and shortly will have the much heaver 330CCA battery at 2.6lbs with the battery management system.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Mon, May 18, 2015 at 4:43 PM, Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | I purchased a Aerovoltz Lithium Iron Phosphate battery last summer. As I discussed last summer the battery is incredibly light. I received comments that lithium batteries needed to be recharged often so I left the battery in the plane last winter in Michigan. The engine started just fine this week with no recharging.
I have ordered a balance charger and plan to balance the cell voltages from time to time.
Last summer there was a discussion about Lithium batteries being sold in AH equivalent capacities. This is true so if you have concerns about battery powered devices continuing to run after the alternator quits you may want to order a larger battery no matter what type of battery you purchase.
Note! There is a notice on the Areovolts web site warning that Rotax voltage regulator model 866 080 should not be used with these batteries. They report that these regulators have been known to fail and over charge. Apparently there was no fire but a
melt down.
Again worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
“With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.”
― Steven Weinberg
|
|
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ka5biw(at)swcp.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 6:17 am Post subject: Lithium Battery Update |
|
|
I would do more investigation before returning the battery. The “Connection Break” message was most likely caused by the battery management system tapering the charge current below what the charger needed to believe it was connected to a battery. I suspect the battery was still in the circuit. I would expect the battery management system to maintain 14.4 volts on the battery and drop the charging current to nil.
If I ever saw 16 volts on a lithium battery I would be running away. They get really nasty and can explode if they get pushed to that kind of voltage. Most equipment that is designed for a 12 volt system is only rated to 15 volts maximum. Your electronic ignition system might not survive anything above 15 volts.
My guess is that the batter is fine and the charger’s error message is misleading.
Best Regards,
Paul Littleton
tapped out on an iPad
| Quote: | From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Re: Lithium Battery Update
Ok one final update on my Lithium Iron Phosphate battery test /experience.
I got the new Areovoltz LiFe battery a few days ago and charged the battery
as instructed. The manual said the battery was charged to 70% but with a 2
amp charge rate it went to 14.4 volts in 10 minutes. When it got to 14.4
volts the charger backed off and maintained 14.39 to 14.40 volts, after
just a few minutes I got a message "Connection Break". Wow if I had been
flying it would have been a second forced landing. The manufacturer said it
would not disconnect till it got to 16 plus volts and heated some but it
didn't, it disconnected at 14.4 volts! The charger was set for
safe charging LiFe batteries and it never exceeded the maximum safe
voltage. I can't live with that. I'm returning the battery.
The new battery has a built in "Battery Management System" that protects
the battery and it seems to be doing that but the alternator regulator in
my plane regularly charges to about 14 volts in recharge mode then backs
off once the battery is charged. The Old LiFe battery without the BMS never
had a problem with it. I have an electronic ignition system that requires
battery filtered power to operate, it will NOT operate on alternator only
power so if the battery disconnects in flight the engine will quit. As the
old LiFe aged I would see voltages slightly above 14.0 volts on occasion so
having a BMS that disconnects the battery when the operating voltage is
just .4 volts away it is just too close.
As usual worth what you paid for it.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
neilsenrm(at)gmail.com
Guest
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2020 7:20 am Post subject: Lithium Battery Update |
|
|
Thanks for the input.
First LiFe batteries don't normally explode. I'm sure there are exceptions even for lead acid but normally high voltage just causes a melt down. Was the battery still in the circuit? I took the battery to my volt meter and it showed 13.5 volts about 15 minutes later and when I tried charging the battery again the BMS had reset and I could charge it again.
Was the battery still in the circuit enough to provide usable power to my electronic ignition system? I'm not willing to test that situation. I already purchased a replacement lead acid battery. Wow it is a good 12lbs heavier than the old LiFe with no where near the same power. Maybe in two - three years when this one dies I will find a better replacement. I had a forced landing with my current plane actually three in my flying years and walked away. I'm learning what not to do. I'm not going to press my luck.
Rick Neilsen
Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
On Thu, Jun 11, 2020 at 10:21 AM Paul Littleton <ka5biw(at)swcp.com (ka5biw(at)swcp.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> Kolb-List message posted by: Paul Littleton <ka5biw(at)swcp.com (ka5biw(at)swcp.com)>
I would do more investigation before returning the battery. The “Connection Break” message was most likely caused by the battery management system tapering the charge current below what the charger needed to believe it was connected to a battery. I suspect the battery was still in the circuit. I would expect the battery management system to maintain 14.4 volts on the battery and drop the charging current to nil.
If I ever saw 16 volts on a lithium battery I would be running away. They get really nasty and can explode if they get pushed to that kind of voltage. Most equipment that is designed for a 12 volt system is only rated to 15 volts maximum. Your electronic ignition system might not survive anything above 15 volts.
My guess is that the batter is fine and the charger’s error message is misleading.
Best Regards,
Paul Littleton
tapped out on an iPad
> From: Rick Neilsen <neilsenrm(at)gmail.com (neilsenrm(at)gmail.com)>
> Subject: Re: Re: Lithium Battery Update
>
> Ok one final update on my Lithium Iron Phosphate battery test /experience.
>
> I got the new Areovoltz LiFe battery a few days ago and charged the battery
> as instructed. The manual said the battery was charged to 70% but with a 2
> amp charge rate it went to 14.4 volts in 10 minutes. When it got to 14.4
> volts the charger backed off and maintained 14.39 to 14.40 volts, after
> just a few minutes I got a message "Connection Break". Wow if I had been
> flying it would have been a second forced landing. The manufacturer said it
> would not disconnect till it got to 16 plus volts and heated some but it
> didn't, it disconnected at 14.4 volts! The charger was set for
> safe charging LiFe batteries and it never exceeded the maximum safe
> voltage. I can't live with that. I'm returning the battery.
>
> The new battery has a built in "Battery Management System" that protects
> the battery and it seems to be doing that but the alternator regulator in
> my plane regularly charges to about 14 volts in recharge mode then backs
> off once the battery is charged. The Old LiFe battery without the BMS never
> had a problem with it. I have an electronic ignition system that requires
> battery filtered power to operate, it will NOT operate on alternator only
> power so if the battery disconnects in flight the engine will quit. As the
> old LiFe aged I would see voltages slightly above 14.0 volts on occasion so
> having a BMS that disconnects the battery when the operating voltage is
> just .4 volts away it is just too close.
>
> As usual worth what you paid for it.
>
> Rick Neilsen
> Redrive VW Powered MKIIIC
===========
-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List
===========
FORUMS -
eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
|
| | - The Matronics Kolb-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Kolb-List |
|
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
Get Email Distribution Too!
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
