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jeffbudner
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Location: Rio Vista airport
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 Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 4:58 pm Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened version?
2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional purpose to it?
My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are relevant to question 1 above.
Thanks,
Jeff
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Robert Reed
Joined: 22 Oct 2009
Posts: 331
Location: Dallas/Ft.Worth
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 5:15 pm Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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I don’t have an answer for you about the TR-1 but your photos look like the gear on the TR-4. The original gear for the TR-4 was linked to rudder pedals and provided nose wheel steering. Those were replaced early on with free castering version.
Bob Reed
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Sep 19, 2020, at 7:58 PM, jeffbudner <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened version?
2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional purpose to it?
My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are relevant to question 1 above.
Thanks,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498455#498455
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1484_706.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7770_401.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1048_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_9845_2_442.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4495_117.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0184_460.jpg
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gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 19, 2020 6:13 pm Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Hi Jeff,
I fly a TR1 .. Your Nose Gear Leg appears to the Good ... and
appears to be the most recent Hendricks version . I know of 4 versions .
First version was round ( approx 1 inch Dia) formed/shaped .. not strong ...
next 2 versions were 'Airfoil Tube' construction .. and lastly the strongest
Round larger Diameter unit u photo'd .
Regarding Flap extension being 1 and a Half inch different ... that would
alarm me ... a suggest investigate why this is so . !!?? ( they should be
rigged to deploy uniformly together ... and so fly straight and true and
controllable ... departure from 'in unison' Flap Deployment ... introduces
controllability issues/concerns )
Luv my TR1 .. good luck,
Graham
Kit #80
--------------------------------------------------
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 10:58 AM
To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
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| Posted: Sun Sep 20, 2020 4:39 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Keep in mind the problem with the nose gear was actually the main gear placement. The nose gear should have between 10% and 25% of the weight of the aircraft from the aft CG to forward CG limits. The main gear in the original location would put well over 35% onto the main gear. The main gear so far behind the CG would not only put more static load on the nose gear but would also put a huge dynamic load when the nose would slam down on landing.
If you correct the main gear location by canting the gear forward any of the nose gears are acceptable.
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
| Quote: | On Sat, Sep 19, 2020 at 10:16 PM, Graham Brighton
<gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au> wrote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: "Graham Brighton" <gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au (gbrighton(at)skymesh.com.au)>
Hi Jeff,
I fly a TR1 .. Your Nose Gear Leg appears to the Good ... and
appears to be the most recent Hendricks version . I know of 4 versions .
First version was round ( approx 1 inch Dia) formed/shaped .. not strong ...
next 2 versions were 'Airfoil Tube' construction .. and lastly the strongest
Round larger Diameter unit u photo'd .
Regarding Flap extension being 1 and a Half inch different ... that would
alarm me ... a suggest investigate why this is so . !!?? ( they should be
rigged to deploy uniformly together ... and so fly straight and true and
controllable ... departure from 'in unison' Flap Deployment ... introduces
controllability issues/concerns )
Luv my TR1 .. good luck,
Graham
Kit #80
--------------------------------------------------
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com (jeffbudner(at)gmail.com)>
Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2020 10:58 AM
To: <kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)>
Subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
| Quote: | Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a
|
| Quote: | couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
|
| Quote: | 1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can
|
| Quote: | you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened
|
| Quote: | 2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the
|
| Quote: | right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional
|
| Quote: | My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are
|
| Quote: | relevant to question 1 above.
|
| Quote: | Read this topic online here:
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| Quote: | This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
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| Quote: |
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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 3:35 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Jeff
I concur with the others , you are looking at the most recent nose gear assembly from Lyle, this was the heaviest version and the strongest . but one thing missing, is the stop pin that prevents the nose wheel pivoting all the way around , its an easy fix and a worthwhile addition . Marks suggestion about tilting the main gear forward was performed by quite a few TR1 owners ( including myself ) so it would be worthwhile doing if, it has not been done already. ( again its a simple fix )
The flaps definitely were not designed to be asymmetric, so that does require some investigation , and i would not recommend deploying them until the issue is fully understood .
[img]cid:1__=4EBB0F79DFAD14858f9e8a93df938690(at)esa.int[/img]"jeffbudner" ---20/09/2020 04:36:31-----> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com> Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pr
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 20/09/2020 04:36
Subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
--> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened version?
2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional purpose to it?
My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are relevant to question 1 above.
Thanks,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498455#498455
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1484_706.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7770_401.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1048_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_9845_2_442.jpg
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personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo(at)esa.int).
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jeffbudner
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Location: Rio Vista airport
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:39 am Post subject: Re: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Thanks very much for the feedback on the nose gear identification, as for the placement I understand the theory behind canting the main gear, but I'm not clear as to what's involved in doing so. I'll search the threads in this group but if anyone knows of a link where canting the gear forward is discussed in more detail that would be really helpful.
As for the flap issue, we're hoping that it's something that can be corrected at the bellcrank. Clearly this is at the top of the squawk list, so for now we're moving forward with the rest of the plane to complete the squawk list, and then circle back to the flaps issue.
Jeff
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Keith.Miller(at)esa.int
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:10 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Jeff
its probably listed somewhere in the threads , but basically all you would do is after jacking up the plane is to loosen the main gear bolts and insert a hard wedge between the fuselage and the top of the sprung gear , From memory i made mine ( 2 off ) about a 1/4" over the width of the gear and about 5 " x width of the gear to spread the load, which corresponded to the size of the layups in the fuselage . ( the larger side of the wedge at the back to angle the gear forward)
I hope you have downloaded the build manual as this will help a lot with understanding the flap assembly. But can you confirm it is the original mechanical flap assembly or send a picture ( i e without any electric motors ) , in theory the original flap assembly is so simple its impossible for the flaps to go asymmetric . can you also measure the flap angles ? in the two positions.
[img]cid:1__=4EBB0F79DFDF2E9D8f9e8a93df938690(at)esa.int[/img]"jeffbudner" ---21/09/2020 15:43:26-----> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com> Thanks very much for the feedbac
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 21/09/2020 15:43
Subject: Re: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
--> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
Thanks very much for the feedback on the node gear identification, as for the placement I understand the theory behind moving the nose gear forward, but I'm not clear as to what's involved in doing so. I'll search the threads in this group but if anyone knows of a link where moving the gear forward is discussed in more detail that would be really helpful.
As for the flap issue, we're hoping that it's something that can be corrected at the bellcrank. Clearly this is at the top of the squawk list, so for now we're moving forward with the rest of the plane to complete the squawk list, and then circle back to the flaps issue.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498477#498477
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matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
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| Quote: | This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or
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this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect
personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo(at)esa.int).
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jeffbudner
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Location: Rio Vista airport
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:07 am Post subject: Re: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Keith, thanks for the details, this is really helpful. Here are the two pics taken regarding the flap extension issue. As you'll see there is nothing scientific about how the measurement was done but it was intended to get general guage of the uniformity of the flaps. Essentially I locked the ailerons at a neutral position and the flaps fully extended. I then measured from the flap edge to the aileron edge. Hopefully my measurements are flawed to the extent that no real issue exists with the flaps.
Jeff
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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:34 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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Jeff,
I suggest pulling up on the flaps to simulate a wind load while you measure the deployment. I also suggest measureing the angle. Most smart phone will do this with an app like "Clinometer".
Mark
On Monday, 21 September 2020, 11:12:47 am GMT-4, jeffbudner <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com> wrote:
--> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com (jeffbudner(at)gmail.com)>
Keith, thanks for the details, this is really helpful. Here are the two pics taken regarding the flap extension issue. As you'll see there is nothing scientific about how the measurement was done but it was intended to get general guage of the uniformity of the flaps. Essentially I locked the ailerons at a neutral position and the flaps fully extended. I then measured from the flap edge to the aileron edge. Hopefully my measurements are flawed to the extent that no real issue exists with the flaps.
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498482#498482
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/right_wing_flap_859.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/left_wing_flap_630.jpg
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-Listp; - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
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wschertz343(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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The flaps issue is concerning. I built a TR-4, and the flaps used a nylon block sliding in a "U" channel at the flap root. Adjustment to the flaps was by drilling the block offcenter, then rotating it to get the desired setting. This did not allow for fine adjustments if needed, so I designed a 'split flap' by splitting the torque tube and using two arms in the center of the plane. This allowed VERY SMALL adjustments to be made. Details are on Bob Reeds website.Â
1.5 inches when extended is huge -- what is the difference when retracted?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 5:36 AM <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int (Keith.Miller(at)esa.int)> wrote:
| Quote: |
Jeff
I concur with the others , you are looking at the most recent nose gear assembly from Lyle, this was the heaviest version and the strongest .  but one thing missing,  is the stop pin that prevents the  nose wheel  pivoting all the way around , its an easy fix  and a worthwhile addition . Marks suggestion about  tilting the main gear forward was  performed by quite a few  TR1 owners ( including myself )  so it would be worthwhile doing if, it has not been done already.  ( again its a simple fix  )
The flaps definitely were not designed to be asymmetric, so that does require some investigation , and  i would not recommend deploying them until  the issue is  fully understood . Â
[img]cid:174b1f2529c308fca931[/img]"jeffbudner" ---20/09/2020 04:36:31-----> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com (jeffbudner(at)gmail.com)> Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pr
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com (jeffbudner(at)gmail.com)>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com (kis-list(at)matronics.com)
Date: 20/09/2020 04:36
Subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com)
--> KIS-List message posted by: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com (jeffbudner(at)gmail.com)>
Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened version?
2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional purpose to it?
My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are relevant to question 1 above.
Thanks,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498455#498455
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1484_706.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7770_401.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1048_188.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_9845_2_442.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_4495_117.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_0184_460.jpg
===========
matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?KIS-List
===========
MS -
ms.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
.matronics.com">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
e -
     -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
===========
| Quote: | This message is intended only for the recipient(s) named above. It may contain proprietary information and/or
protected content. Any unauthorised disclosure, use, retention or dissemination is prohibited. If you have received
this e-mail in error, please notify the sender immediately. ESA applies appropriate organisational measures to protect
personal data, in case of data privacy queries, please contact the ESA Data Protection Officer (dpo(at)esa.int (dpo(at)esa.int)).
|
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aeromomentum(at)yahoo.com
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:04 am Post subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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The TR1 flaps have a different linkage than the TR4 with each side having a push rod with adjustable rod ends on both ends so adjustment is fairly easy.
On Monday, 21 September 2020, 02:44:18 pm GMT-4, William Schertz <wschertz343(at)gmail.com> wrote:
The flaps issue is concerning. I built a TR-4, and the flaps used a nylon block sliding in a "U" channel at the flap root. Adjustment to the flaps was by drilling the block offcenter, then rotating it to get the desired setting. This did not allow for fine adjustments if needed, so I designed a 'split flap' by splitting the torque tube and using two arms in the center of the plane. This allowed VERY SMALL adjustments to be made. Details are on Bob Reeds website.Â
1.5 inches when extended is huge -- what is the difference when retracted?
On Mon, Sep 21, 2020 at 5:36 AM <Keith.Miller(at)esa.int> wrote:
Jeff
I concur with the others , you are looking at the most recent nose gear assembly from Lyle, this was the heaviest version and the strongest .  but one thing missing,  is the stop pin that prevents the  nose wheel  pivoting all the way around , its an easy fix  and a worthwhile addition . Marks suggestion about  tilting the main gear forward was  performed by quite a few  TR1 owners ( including myself )  so it would be worthwhile doing if, it has not been done already.  ( again its a simple fix  )
The flaps definitely were not designed to be asymmetric, so that does require some investigation , and  i would not recommend deploying them until  the issue is  fully understood . Â
"jeffbudner" ---20/09/2020 04:36:31---
From: "jeffbudner" <jeffbudner(at)gmail.com>
To: kis-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 20/09/2020 04:36
Subject: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear?
Sent by: owner-kis-list-server(at)matronics.com
Hi all, I'm in the midst of a pre-buy inspection for a TR-1, and have a couple of questions, that hopefully you can help me answer:
1. Posted below are pics of the nose gear assembly, from these pics can you determine if this is an original model nose gear or a more hardened version?
2. Regarding the flaps, the left flap extends down 1.5" lower than the right. Is this an adjustment issue or could there be some intentional purpose to it?
My apology is I've posted too many pics, I wasn't sure which pics are relevant to question 1 above.
Thanks,
Jeff
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=498455#498455
Attachments:
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_1484_706.jpg
http://forums.matronics.com//files/img_7770_401.jpg
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jeffbudner
Joined: 20 Aug 2020
Posts: 18
Location: Rio Vista airport
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| Posted: Tue Sep 22, 2020 12:36 pm Post subject: Re: Can you identify this TR-1 nose gear? |
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So it appears that the right flap has some kind of slack issue. In the pick below the right flap is fully retracted but is not flush. The left flap is flush. At the trailing edge it appears to be hanging down about 1/2" - 3/4". Took the pick at the end of day and was too tired to think about measuring.
Jeff
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