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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
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 Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:41 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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Hi John,The return fuel to the reserve tank is a very small amount due to the restrictor placed in the return line pipe from the T intersection. Most excess fuel now flows out through an overflow tube from the new Rotax engine mechanical fuel pump. I would prefer to make sure the reserve fuel filter is not blocked and the flow to the engine is uninhabited by selecting the Reserve first for 30 mins then back to the Main for the last 30mins, a conservative approach.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 2/11/2020, at 9:27 PM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Reply to Tim.
The return line goes to the reserve side, therefore the last tank you switch to should always be the reserve. As this will receive the excess fuel that is bypassing the carb.
So when your tank/gauge says empty stay on main tank. As soon as the engine faulters switch to reserve, you then have 9 lites remaining. Every drop of that is available to you, including the returned fuel.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499180#499180
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m.j.gregory(at)talk21.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:54 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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The "run until it falters" or "fly to failure" principle of fuel management can be much improved by the fitting of a fuel pressure gauge or warning light. This will normally give sufficient advance warning of fuel exhaustion in the main tank to allow the reserve to be selected without the engine missing a beat while it continues to run on fuel in the carburettors. Depending on the type of gauge, the needle may start to fluctuate or the light may flicker when the smooth flow of fuel is interrupted. This can be a good attention-getter (I speak from experience!)
While on the subject of fuel system configuration, I feel it is important to remind all UK builders and operators of the note accompanying my fuel system review on the Club website https://www.theeuropaclub.org/owning/safety/fuel-system-review-mike-gregory-2019
"In U.K. any deviation from the current Europa published fuel system must be approved by the LAA modification system in the normal way."
Regards,
Mike
Dr Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
01480 451655
07885 355765
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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 10:58 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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Hi Tim,
I’m confused, that pump overflow tube is to capture any leakage if the pump’s diaphragm fails, no? It is normally dry.
Cheers,
Pete
| Quote: | On Nov 2, 2020, at 1:45 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi John,The return fuel to the reserve tank is a very small amount due to the restrictor placed in the return line pipe from the T intersection. Most excess fuel now flows out through an overflow tube from the new Rotax engine mechanical fuel pump. I would prefer to make sure the reserve fuel filter is not blocked and the flow to the engine is uninhabited by selecting the Reserve first for 30 mins then back to the Main for the last 30mins, a conservative approach.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 2/11/2020, at 9:27 PM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Reply to Tim.
The return line goes to the reserve side, therefore the last tank you switch to should always be the reserve. As this will receive the excess fuel that is bypassing the carb.
So when your tank/gauge says empty stay on main tank. As soon as the engine faulters switch to reserve, you then have 9 lites remaining. Every drop of that is available to you, including the returned fuel.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499180#499180
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 02, 2020 11:53 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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Hi Pete, I thought it was an overflow as well. You may well be right. Have to ask Rotax.Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 3/11/2020, at 8:30 AM, Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:
Hi Tim,
I’m confused, that pump overflow tube is to capture any leakage if the pump’s diaphragm fails, no? It is normally dry.
Cheers,
Pete
| Quote: | On Nov 2, 2020, at 1:45 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi John,The return fuel to the reserve tank is a very small amount due to the restrictor placed in the return line pipe from the T intersection. Most excess fuel now flows out through an overflow tube from the new Rotax engine mechanical fuel pump. I would prefer to make sure the reserve fuel filter is not blocked and the flow to the engine is uninhabited by selecting the Reserve first for 30 mins then back to the Main for the last 30mins, a conservative approach.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 2/11/2020, at 9:27 PM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Reply to Tim.
The return line goes to the reserve side, therefore the last tank you switch to should always be the reserve. As this will receive the excess fuel that is bypassing the carb.
So when your tank/gauge says empty stay on main tank. As soon as the engine faulters switch to reserve, you then have 9 lites remaining. Every drop of that is available to you, including the returned fuel.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499180#499180
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cakeykev(at)gmail.com
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 2:03 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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It’s called the reserve for a reason. Why would you take fuel from the side that is not getting the return fuel. You should never get to that stage but I want to know I have used every drop if it all goes wrong.
Kevin Challis
| Quote: | On 2 Nov 2020, at 18:38, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:
Hi John,The return fuel to the reserve tank is a very small amount due to the restrictor placed in the return line pipe from the T intersection. Most excess fuel now flows out through an overflow tube from the new Rotax engine mechanical fuel pump. I would prefer to make sure the reserve fuel filter is not blocked and the flow to the engine is uninhabited by selecting the Reserve first for 30 mins then back to the Main for the last 30mins, a conservative approach.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 2/11/2020, at 9:27 PM, John Wighton <john(at)wighton.net> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Wighton" <john(at)wighton.net>
Reply to Tim.
The return line goes to the reserve side, therefore the last tank you switch to should always be the reserve. As this will receive the excess fuel that is bypassing the carb.
So when your tank/gauge says empty stay on main tank. As soon as the engine faulters switch to reserve, you then have 9 lites remaining. Every drop of that is available to you, including the returned fuel.
Regards
JW
--------
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499180#499180
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Remi Guerner
Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 4:23 am Post subject: Re: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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<<<<<<The>>>>>>>>
I agree with John that it is the best practice. The returned fuel is very significant. It is about 12 liters per hour at cruise power with the standard Europa fuel system (Rotax 912, all carburetted versions). Then if you empty the reserve side first, the 9 or so liters remaining on the main side will not all go to the engine. Suppose your engine is using 15 liters/hour at your selected cruise power, the fuel flow from the tank will be 27 L/h and the main side will be empty after 20 minutes. 4 liters will go to the reserve side and stay there... unless you switch tanks once again. Better empty the main first and get 36 minutes of powered flight after switching to reserve. With the 914, the average return flow is dramatically higher, making the problem worse.
Remi Guerner
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ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 03, 2020 10:17 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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Hi All,Wow. I didn’t realise the return fuel was that significant. My apologies, I shall return to the recognised method in the future, Main Tank then Reserve.
Cheers,
Tim
Sent from my iPadTim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch,
8052
New Zealand
ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
021 0640221
| Quote: | On 4/11/2020, at 1:32 AM, Remi Guerner <air.guerner(at)orange.fr> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Remi Guerner" <air.guerner(at)orange.fr>
I agree with John that it is the best practice. The returned fuel is very significant. It is about 12 liters per hour at cruise power with the standard Europa fuel system (Rotax 912, all carburetted versions). Then if you empty the reserve side first, the 9 or so liters remaining on the main side will not all go to the engine. Suppose your engine is using 15 liters/hour at your selected cruise power, the fuel flow from the tank will be 27 L/h and the main side will be empty after 20 minutes. 4 liters will go to the reserve side and stay there... unless you switch tanks once again. Better empty the main first and get 36 minutes of powered flight after switching to reserve. With the 914, the average return flow is dramatically higher, making the problem worse.
Remi Guerner
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=499214#499214
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tonyvaccarella
Joined: 10 Sep 2014
Posts: 68
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 04, 2020 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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Hi all,
Id like to thank everyone for the numerous valuable comments and suggestions posted on this thread. I should have mentioned from the start that my project uses a Jabiru engine that does not utilise a return fuel line.
I have decided that I will connect the reserve and the main tanks via an external line as I have seen and heard enough positive feedback to do so with confidence.
Best regards to all
Tony
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Tony Vaccarella
Mascot NSW 2020
Sydney Australia |
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creightonious
Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 40
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| Posted: Thu Nov 05, 2020 8:14 am Post subject: Connecting both sides of the fuel tank |
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I agree with everyone who advocates running on the main (left) side of the fuel tank because, as has been pointed out, the fuel returns to the reserve (left) side thus ensuring a full reserve 30 minutes.
The only time I have used the reserve in necessity, I was making a night VFR approach at close to extreme range. The main was quite low and I don’t entirely trust the totalizer at an extreme.
When I entered the pattern I switched to the reserve to ensure uninterrupted engine operation in a critical situation.
Upon fueling there was 5 gal (US) remaining.
I am a card carrying member of Bud’s Department of Redundancy Department.
Creighton Smith. E-009
Sent from my iPad
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Creighton Smith
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