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hangar elevator

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kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:05 am Post subject: hangar elevator

Greetings,Â 



I am putting a homemade elevator in the hangar. It will have a stop at the top (living quarters over hangar) a stop in the middle (small storage room over top of hangar bathroom) and a stop at the bottom (hangar level).



I will power this with a 12 volt winch that comes with a wireless remote control.

Here's how I would like it to work. For normal operation, the remote "up" or "down" button would be used to move the elevator cab. When the cab reaches it's destination, a limit switch would cut off power to the winch.

For accessing the storage over the hangar, a second switch would put the elevator controls into "mode b." When in mode b the remote would then be used to move the cab to and from the middle stop.

Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit switches and relay(s)?

Thanks,

Ken

user9253

Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1921
Location: Riley TWP Michigan

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 10:56 am Post subject: Re: hangar elevator

Does the winch have any built-in limit switches?  Do you have a wiring diagram for the winch?

Will people be riding in the elevator?  If so, will there be some way to keep the 

elevator from falling if the cable breaks?  There are mechanical designs that 

allow an elevator to move slowly, but stop it if it moves fast (falls).

_________________
Joe Gores

cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:50 am Post subject: hangar elevator

Is this elevator for people or goods?



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 10:11 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Greetings,Â 



I am putting a homemade elevator in the hangar. It will have a stop at the top (living quarters over hangar) a stop in the middle (small storage room over top of hangar bathroom) and a stop at the bottom (hangar level).



I will power this with a 12 volt winch that comes with a wireless remote control.

Here's how I would like it to work. For normal operation, the remote "up" or "down" button would be used to move the elevator cab. When the cab reaches it's destination, a limit switch would cut off power to the winch.

For accessing the storage over the hangar, a second switch would put the elevator controls into "mode b." When in mode b the remote would then be used to move the cab to and from the middle stop.

Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit switches and relay(s)?

Thanks,

Ken

Ceengland

Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: hangar elevator

On 3/6/2021 12:04 PM, Ken Ryan wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   Greetings,



 I am putting a homemade elevator in the hangar. It will have a stop at 

 the top (living quarters over hangar) a stop in the middle (small 

 storage room over top of hangar bathroom) and a stop at the bottom 

 (hangar level).



 I will power this with a 12 volt winch that comes with a wireless 

 remote control.



 Here's how I would like it to work. For normal operation, the remote 

 "up" or "down" button would be used to move the elevator cab. When the 

 cab reaches it's destination, a limit switch would cut off power to 

 the winch.



 For accessing the storage over the hangar, a second switch would put 

 the elevator controls into "mode b." When in mode b the remote would 

 then be used to move the cab to and from the middle stop.



 Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using 

 limit switches and relay(s)?



 Thanks,



 Ken

Assuming observation of 'people protection' others mentioned, all you 
	


really need is limit switches at top & bottom. Easiest drawing I found 

with a quick search:

https://www.hamradio.me/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/5_atbottom.gif

The winch will have a DPDT *relay* to run the winch in/out. Replace the 

word 'switch' in the drawing with 'relay', and wire your limit switches 

in series with the winch motor, as shown.



I'm assuming that you intend to use the winch control as designed, where 

you must hold the button in the desired direction to keep the winch 

running. If you want to stop in the middle, just release the button at 

the right point. You *could* make it work with a push&release circuit 

for the up/down buttons, but it would be a lot more complicated.



If the middle level is only accessed from the ground floor, then you 

could add a 2nd upper limit switch, andÂ  use the 'mode B' switch to 

electrically replace theÂ  top floor switch with the mid level switch.



None of the above incorporates any kind of 'call' feature. If the 

spousal unit is upstairs and you're not, you'd need some way to control 

from multiple locations. Maybe with manual buttons that can also drive 

the DPDT relay, but you need to be sure of a pecking order for the 

controls, similar to the pilot/copilot trim controls in an a/c. You can 

find diagrams (but don't try to use their tiny relays!) for that on the 

Ray Allen site.



Charlie

-- 

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.

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_________________
Charlie

kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 3:05 pm Post subject: hangar elevator

Joe, I haven't picked out a specific winch. Most likely an inexpensive winch or hoist from Harbor Freight. I have had a homemade elevator for 15 years, so I'm comfortable hanging from a cable. My existing one just uses a standard control box with spring loaded buttons for "up" and "down." But I want to introduce the idea of limit switches so that you can't overshoot or undershoot the destination.



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 10:01 AM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Does the winch have any built-in limit switches?Â  Do you have a wiring diagram for the winch?

 Will people be riding in the elevator?Â  If so, will there be some way to keep the 

 elevator from falling if the cable breaks?Â  There are mechanical designs that 

 allow an elevator to move slowly, but stop it if it moves fast (falls).

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500870#500870

 

 

 

 

 

 

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:43 pm Post subject: hangar elevator

You should control it from an arduino. Place a microswitch at each place you want to stop, run the arduino to relays controlling the winch, and use your phone to tell the arduino which floor you want to go to.



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 15:10 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Joe, I haven't picked out a specific winch. Most likely an inexpensive winch or hoist from Harbor Freight. I have had a homemade elevator for 15 years, so I'm comfortable hanging from a cable. My existing one just uses a standard control box with spring loaded buttons for "up" and "down." But I want to introduce the idea of limit switches so that you can't overshoot or undershoot the destination.



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 10:01 AM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Does the winch have any built-in limit switches?Â  Do you have a wiring diagram for the winch?

 Will people be riding in the elevator?Â  If so, will there be some way to keep the 

 elevator from falling if the cable breaks?Â  There are mechanical designs that 

 allow an elevator to move slowly, but stop it if it moves fast (falls).

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500870#500870

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

  -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:07 pm Post subject: hangar elevator

Putting people in a home-made elevator run from a harbour freight winch controlled by an Arduino running home-written code. Thatâ€™s adventurous!



On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:42 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> wrote:



You should control it from an arduino. Place a microswitch at each place you want to stop, run the arduino to relays controlling the winch, and use your phone to tell the arduino which floor you want to go to.



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 15:10 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> wrote:

Joe, I haven't picked out a specific winch. Most likely an inexpensive winch or hoist from Harbor Freight. I have had a homemade elevator for 15 years, so I'm comfortable hanging from a cable. My existing one just uses a standard control box with spring loaded buttons for "up" and "down." But I want to introduce the idea of limit switches so that you can't overshoot or undershoot the destination.



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 10:01 AM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com> wrote:




Does the winch have any built-in limit switches?  Do you have a wiring diagram for the winch?

Will people be riding in the elevator?  If so, will there be some way to keep the 

elevator from falling if the cable breaks?  There are mechanical designs that 

allow an elevator to move slowly, but stop it if it moves fast (falls).



--------

Joe Gores





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500870#500870

===========

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Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

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FORUMS -

eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

===========

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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

===========

b Site -

          -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

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cluros(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 5:15 pm Post subject: hangar elevator

As adventurous as putting people in a homemade airplane?



On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 17:12 Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Alec Myers <alec(at)alecmyers.com (alec(at)alecmyers.com)>

 

 Putting people in a home-made elevator run from a harbour freight winch controlled by an Arduino running home-written code. Thatâ€™s adventurous!

 

 

 

 On Mar 6, 2021, at 7:42 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 

 You should control it from an arduino. Place a microswitch at each place you want to stop, run the arduino to relays controlling the winch, and use your phone to tell the arduino which floor you want to go to.

 

 On Sat, Mar 6, 2021, 15:10 Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com (keninalaska(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 Joe, I haven't picked out a specific winch. Most likely an inexpensive winch or hoist from Harbor Freight. I have had a homemade elevator for 15 years, so I'm comfortable hanging from a cable. My existing one just uses a standard control box with spring loaded buttons for "up" and "down." But I want to introduce the idea of limit switches so that you can't overshoot or undershoot the destination.

 

 On Sat, Mar 6, 2021 at 10:01 AM user9253 <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "user9253" <fransew(at)gmail.com (fransew(at)gmail.com)>

 

 Does the winch have any built-in limit switches?Â  Do you have a wiring diagram for the winch?

 Will people be riding in the elevator?Â  If so, will there be some way to keep the 

 elevator from falling if the cable breaks?Â  There are mechanical designs that 

 allow an elevator to move slowly, but stop it if it moves fast (falls).

 

 --------

 Joe Gores

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=500870#500870

 

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

 -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

 FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

 

 

 

 

 

 ===========

  -

 Electric-List" rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List

 ===========

  FORUMS -

 eferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

 b Site -

 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

 rel="noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/contribution

 ===========

lm4(at)juno.com
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 5:33 am Post subject: hangar elevator

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit switches and relay(s)?

Thanks,Ken

 	


 

	
	Ken,

		You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the elevator to keep the elevator 

straight and true while in motion. Then build an arm on the side of the car to stick out to the side to 

hit a limit switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1a. Fasten them to the rails or 

the walls and adjust them so the arm will trigger them when the car gets to itâ€™s limit.

														Larry

  



____________________________________________________________



Top News - Sponsored By NewserTrump to Top GOP Fundraisers: Stop Using My Name
Harry and Meghan Interview Cost CBS At Least $7M
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kenryan

Joined: 20 Oct 2009
Posts: 426

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 6:02 am Post subject: hangar elevator

Because I already built one elevator that I have been using for about 15

years, I'm confident in the physical aspects of this project. It is just

the electrical control of the winch/hoist motor that I need help figuring

out.

Again, the elevator has three stops--lower, middle and upper. The simplest

solution, the one that I have implemented on my home elevator, is a simple

control box with two buttons, up and down. The buttons are spring loaded,

so I just release the buttons when I get where I am going. It works quite

well, and if I end up doing the same in the hangar that will be okay.

But I would like to improve upon this by using limit switches and relays to

make the elevator cab consistently stop at the same spot, and using a

remote control to eliminate the need for connecting the motor power cord to

the cab. So it seems to me that I need something like this:

1. A relay for the motor power cable that has two positions, one for

running the motor forward and one for running the cable in reverse

2. 3 limit switches, one for sensing each level the cab must stop at

3. Some way of bringing the limit switch for the middle level in and out of

the system, because normally I will not be stopping at the middle level

I can't figure out are whether the relay should be NO or NC or maybe no

"open" connection at all and how to configure the limit switches.

It may not be worth doing, since the spring button control box does work.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:38 AM Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> wrote:

[quote]

 On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com> wrote:

> Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit

> switches and relay(s)?

> Thanks,Ken

>

 Ken,

 You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the elevator

 to keep the elevator

 straight and true while in motion. Then build an arm on the side of the

 car to stick out to the side to

 hit a limit switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1a

echristley(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: hangar elevator

Normally, a limit switch will turn one direction off, and will not allow movement in that direction.  You have to move the car in the opposite direction before any movement in the first direction is possible.  Since you have a stop in the middle, I think you are limited to either manual or computer control.  

As far as the physical protection is concerned, I think the traditional safety feature is that the car is suspended from the cable by the center of a leaf spring that curves up in the middle.  The leaf spring passes through loops on either end that hold the car.  When there is weight on the spring, the ends are pulled away from the side rails.  If the cable were to break, the spring is release and brake pads push against the side rails.  It is easy enough to design the mechanical advantage such that the car won't move up or down unless the spring is in tension.  Worse case scenario is that you're stuck between floors when the cable breaks.

                  

                                                                    On Sunday, March 7, 2021, 09:03:40 AM EST, Ken Ryan <keninalaska(at)gmail.com> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                 Because I already built one elevator that I have been using for about 15 years, I'm confident in the physical aspects of this project. It is just the electrical control of the winch/hoist motor that I need help figuring out. 

Again, the elevator has three stops--lower, middle and upper. The simplest solution, the one that I have implemented on my home elevator, is a simple control box with two buttons, up and down. The buttons are spring loaded, so I just release the buttons when I get where I am going. It works quite well, and if I end up doing the same in the hangar that will be okay. 

But I would like to improve upon this by using limit switches and relays to make the elevator cab consistently stop at the same spot, and using a remote control to eliminate the need for connecting the motor power cord to the cab. So it seems to me that I need something like this:



1. A relay for the motor power cable that has two positions, one for running the motor forward and one for running the cable in reverse



2. 3 limit switches, one for sensing each level the cab must stop at



3. Some way of bringing the limit switch for the middle level in and out of the system, because normally I will not be stopping at the middle level



I can't figure out are whether the relay should be NO or NC or maybe no "open" connection at all and how to configure the limit switches. 



It may not be worth doing, since the spring button control box does work.

On Sun, Mar 7, 2021 at 4:38 AM Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com (lm4(at)juno.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   	  Quote: 	
		  On Mar 6, 2021, at 2:49 PM, Sebastien <cluros(at)gmail.com (cluros(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  Can you guys help me to understand how I can accomplish this using limit switches and relay(s)?

Thanks,Ken

 	


 

	
	Ken,

		You will need to construct rails up the shaft and guides on the elevator to keep the elevator 

straight and true while in motion. Then build an arm on the side of the car to stick out to the side to 

hit a limit switch. The switch could be on the order of a Honeywell lsa1a. Fasten them to the rails or 

the walls and adjust them so the arm will trigger them when the car gets to itâ€™s limit.

														Larry

  ____________________________________________________________Top News - Sponsored By NewserTrump to Top GOP Fundraisers: Stop Using My Name
Harry and Meghan Interview Cost CBS At Least $7M
He Has Helped More People Die in California Than Anyone

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:26 pm Post subject: Re: hangar elevator

Hi Ken Some thoughts on hangar elevator: ** I worked on a project and was using Northern Tools 120vac cable hoist 1100/2200lb with pretty good success. It has an ultimate up limit switch built in. Instead of having the hoist solid mounted, it was on an electric trolley that rides on an I beam. The trolley works just semi OK with limited load and a lot of fiddling to get balance just right. It had idlers on one side and drive on the other. With higher loads it was unreliable and motors would burn out. I modified to use 2 drive motors and it works great. Travel was a little more than 16 feet. Don't know if you could use 120vac or if having it on a trolley would make sense for you. Anyway in the event of a power failure I made up an AC battery. Needed to use a round cell AGM starting battery (I forget name of mfg but auto places sell them) connected to an inverter. It would run everything easily for at least enough to get it to maximum travel and down. For up and down and travel I modified a single hand held controller to run the hoist up and down and run 1 trolley motor forward with the other one in reverse (and vise versa). I made 2 controllers, one hand held and one huge giant joystick. They were connected with 4 conductor turn lock 220vac plug and sockets with some pretty nice stranded wire with tough flexible black water proof outer coating, all from HD or Lowes. You could switch between controllers by just unplugging 4 conductor twist lock plug. I used McMaster micro switches on the joystick. Works a treat, never had a failure. As far as what you are doing, you need to put some strong think into how not to hurt physical switches if that's what you want to use. Perhaps an option could be to use  a proximity switch (ie reed switch) or a light beam and sensor like a garage door opener (have them drive relay/s). The Northern Tool hoist comes with a pulley. If you direct connect load to hoist it's rated for 1,100lbs. If you put pulley on load, then put cable through the pulley and attach back to hoist rating is 2,200lbs. Of course it moves half as fast as a single cable and for a given movement it uses twice as much cable. Just some ideas. If you need anymore details please ask. Consider if you go remote control to have several emergency stop buttons where you can get thing turned off from where ever you are. I'm not too much worried about the transmission failing and giving you a free fall as some creature getting tangled up in things and getting body pulled apart in some gruesome and messy way. I built a unit that needed to be blessed for carrying humans. Cost of unit was more than 10 times that of Northern Tools unit. It was probably 4 or 5 times heavier and a lot larger. It was probably top down rated at 1,100lbs, it used a cable about 3/8" thick and had a slipper clutch. You see the clutch grabbed the cable, you would figure your load, then set clutch a little stronger than the load but not enough more to mutilate human machines. I was looking into making things remote control, have some experience with Arduinos and Raspberry Pis, sorry I just don't have enough faith in them. If it were only you ever operating, perhaps maby, but if someones dumb thumb gets put on control and or there is a genuine failure, this has some serious potential to harm. I was looking into using a model aeroplane radio control to actuate servos that would be installed inside my huge joystick and actuate switches. Good Luck Ron P.

rparigoris

Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 792

Posted: Sun Mar 07, 2021 7:47 pm Post subject: Re: hangar elevator

Hi Ken

Here's the hoist:

https://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200712245_200712245

It can be hard mounted in 1 spot or mounted on a trolley. If mounted on an I beam you can have it electrically operated like I did using 1 drive motor (or modify to use 2) or they sell trolleys that are just rollers and you push the hoist manually.

If you were to use proximity sensors with reed switch, if you wanted to disable middle floor, just remove magnet or break switch circuit by either removing a wire or having a series switch. Depending on how long you need to run things, you may be able to use relays with 12 or 24vdc coils (perhaps 5 volts) but rated for 120vac current. 

The up limit switch you just need to make something to grip cable and trip upper limit lever on hoist. It would be adjustable so up is EZ. You could set this upper limit a little shorter than your upper stop, now you would have some redundancy, but it's a pretty reliable up limit. You absoluetly want to have whoever is controlling hoist to have an emergency stop button (that's included in the controller) and if you are ever carrying people (which you will read a gazillion times in directions to never do so), then person needs an emergency shut off in hand. Ron P.

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