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SteveIvell(at)pestproof.c
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:56 am Post subject: Vents

[img]cid:eacc0cb5-db05-4d42-8ccd-66159d19050b[/img] 

 

 

  Hi Patrick

 

 

 I only fitted this last night. It took a lot of deliberation!!

 

 

 The position is quite limited once you sit in and consider where your legs go. 

 

 

 I'm hoping to get the port side fitted tonight........... fingers crossed.

 

 

 Kind Regards

 

 Steve Ivell

 07971 128842

  From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> on behalf of Patrick Tunney <p1tun(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 Sent: Sunday, March 28, 2021 2:05:37 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com <europa-list(at)matronics.com>

 Subject: Re: Vents  

 

  --> Europa-List message posted by: "Patrick Tunney" <p1tun(at)yahoo.co.uk>

 

 I am just in the process of installing the round style air o vents.

 

 could i please get feedback on the best possible location and what worked well before i comit to the hole in the fuselage.

 

 Images would really help.

 

 Thanks

 

 Pat

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501119#501119

 

 

 

 

 

 

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paul.the.aviator(at)gmail
Guest

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:59 am Post subject: Vents

Hello everyone,



I've been following the vent discussion and I wanted to share my approach to this. It's far from simple but it works really well. I put a standard heatÂ box on the firewall. On the instrument panel side I fabricated a plenum with 4 outlets.Â  Two were used for the windshield vents and the other two feed some eyeball vents on the panel.Â Â 

The air feed on the firewall side comes from where I have my turbo charger intercooler air box so that is unique to my installation but finding a place to pull high pressure clean air shouldn't be difficult.

Needless to say the result is reallyÂ good but it is a far amount of work.Â  I do have some photos somewhereÂ and if there is enough interest I'll post them.

Paul

Patrick Tunney

Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 33

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:54 am Post subject: Re: Vents

Many thanks Bud for the great summary.



John i appreciate the drawing offer 



Thanks

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 5:53 pm Post subject: Re: Vents

Bud: I may have missed it but did you address wind noise ? I have always been concerned about "things" that project into high speed air.



Paul: Yes please, on the offer of photos.

_________________
46

BobD

Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 112
Location: Sheffield UK

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:59 pm Post subject: Re: Vents

Bud Yerly's excellent paper on Cockpit Ventilation has been added to the repository of his articles on the Europa Club website.



https://www.theeuropaclub.org/building/the-bud-yerly-notes



BobD

Treasurer

The Europa Club

_________________
Bob Dawson
Europa XS TG || 912 ULS || G-NHRJ || Dynon Skyview || PilotAware || SmartAss3

John Wighton

Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 241

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:59 pm Post subject: Re: Vents

This is the sketch of the vent position.



The red boundary is the recommended zone.

The yellow boundary is generally considered too far back.

Proposed position of vent.jpg

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_________________
John Wighton
Europa XS trigear G-IPOD

budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:40 am Post subject: Vents

Griff,

NO, I did not address the noise level.



With headsets, addressing noise is a function of mic settings,  air blast direction, ANR vs non, engine type and exhaust, propeller type and airspeed.



Anything allowing wind blast into the cockpit is going to make noise.  

Those with NACA vents down by the leg or below the cruck of the knee won't hear much.

Those with piping from the rear (tail fin) up to the cockpit won't hear (or feel) much either.



The ultimate vents in my windows can be heard with non ANR headsets slightly when directed at the face.



The door style intake tends to be noisier than the ultimate style.



The in the glass hinged door is awful if placed near the face (about half way back on the door).



So not much help really.  I am normally more concerned with the engine and prop noise.

I find the two blade props (older Whirlwind hydraulic, Sensenich blades in the Airmaster AP420) to be noisier due to the wide chord power pulses hitting the screen.

The windscreen in some planes acts like a drum skin so prop noise is noticeable.  



Exhaust of a Jabiru or Rotax 912 series exited under the belly is noisy also.



Survival from heat stroke in the cockpit in summer means more to me than db level of the vent.



Just an opinion.



Bud Yerly





--

Gilles

Joined: 16 May 2020
Posts: 33

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:08 am Post subject: Vents

Le 28/03/2021 à 19:16, Bud Yerly a écrit :

 	  Quote: 	
		   I've had many discussions over the years on cockpit ventilation and I summarized them in a pdf for you guys to look at.  I'm always interested in how to make things work.


	




Bud and all,



Most interesting document, congratulations!



Just one point, I'm of the opinion that the Rotax engines generate 

largely enough heat to make a functional heating.



Remember a reciprocating engine rejects about as much heat energy as 

mechanical output on the prop shaft. That's a lot of calories (or BTUs)



The key point is having a sufficient flow of sufficiently hot air.



It only works with a proper cooling air nozzle behind the radiator(s) so 

hot air is under pressure.



Here is an example of such a cockpit heating system, with a very 

satisfactory efficiency.



http://contrails.free.fr/cellule_chauffage_en.php



Easily adaptable to an Europa.



FWIW



-- 

Best regards,

Gilles

http://contrails.free.fr

http://lapierre.skunkworks.free.fr

_________________
Best regards,
Gilles
http://contrails.free.fr

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Re: Vents

The attached pictures illustrates what I did to improve the original Naca vents on my Europa. Works very well. For details read my article in EF84.

Remi

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Patrick Tunney

Joined: 24 Sep 2010
Posts: 33

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:08 pm Post subject: Re: Vents

Many thanks Steve



The location is pretty much in line with my thinking and also comments from other owners i have spoke to that felt the vents needed to be higher than the europa reference position.



Regards



Pat

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:04 pm Post subject: Re: Vents

Hi Bus,



Thank you for your "noise" response - very much as I expected.



I have both ANR /passive headsets, however following the KISS principals, I prefer the passive.  Where practical will try for cockpit noise reduction & treat the disease, not just the symptoms)



With regard to your prop/engine noise comments - I am hoping to have more experience in a Europa shortly - to date most of my LSA experience has been in a Rotax 912 ULS motivated ATEC Zephyr, using a 2 blade Fiti (ground adjustable) prop. Aircraft noise external/internal was very low - inflight, cockpit conversation, without headsets, was quite easy. I fitted an automotive security siren to alert my family when I was passing overhead. I appreciate differences in aircraft construction/design will effect noise generation and thus may not be applicable to another.

_________________
46

freddythek10(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:55 pm Post subject: vents

NACA vent in vertical fin leads to adjustable overhead outletsâ€¦feeds thru overhead plenum...very effective; one can feel the fresh air at the outlet even during engine idleâ€¦kudos for idea from Jeff Behrnes.



[img]cid:ABFF33A0-E408-4109-935E-6CCEA619D1F5[/img]

[img]cid:FBAB1360-24AD-4898-AFF5-49685340C556[/img]



[img]cid:7B33607F-4F6E-4D7A-A577-DE1E2181D300[/img]



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Rocketman

Joined: 07 Sep 2010
Posts: 87
Location: USA, Earth

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:24 pm Post subject: vents

Thanks, Fred.  The official Baby Blue A/C system... 



Jeff

On 3/31/2021 4:55 PM, Fred Klein wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		   NACA vent in vertical fin leads to adjustable overhead outletsâ€¦feeds 

 thru overhead plenum...very effective; one can feel the fresh air at the 

 outlet even during engine idleâ€¦kudos for idea from Jeff Behrnes.

coatbeam(at)melbpc.org.au
Guest

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:32 pm Post subject: Vents

For design of "NACA Submerged Inlets" (search this) - lots of reports 

and drawings etc.



However the attached should be enough. Not the corners on the duct must 

be sharp to force th eair stream to trip.



Graeme



Europa Tri-Gear

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Installing_a_submerged_inlet_ventilation_system_EAA_Sport_Aviation_1981-12.pdf

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brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:31 am Post subject: Vents

Or, you could put a sheet of tracing paper on a Concorde wing ðŸ˜Š



Brian Davies

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