Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS
Goto page Previous 1, 2

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 11:14 am Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

 	  Duncan McFadyean wrote: 	
		  The SL (SL-912-016R1) doesn't say what is being reported in this thread. It says:

 "Continuous use of engine speed below 5200 rpm must follow manifold pressure graph...."

<snip>



Duncan McF.

	




Actually, another part of SL-912-016R1 (and the original issue, page 4) says exactly what was reported, but R2 (4 Dec 2020) has now changed - it now refers you to an exciting RPM/MAP/RON graph.



HTH



Paul

G-PLPM

XS Mono 912ULS

SL-912-016R1.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

74.47 KB

Viewed:

9127 Time(s)

SL-912-016R2_a.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

130.16 KB

Viewed:

9127 Time(s)

SL-912-016R2_b.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

163.12 KB

Viewed:

9127 Time(s)

Peter pender

Joined: 15 Jan 2021
Posts: 16

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:28 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Thanks Paul for backing me up.

I don't normally post on forums but was just trying to help people with the correct info from rotax.

R1 actually states that line you copied, and I posted, three times. 



cheers Peter

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Sun Apr 25, 2021 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Soooo! 

After all that,  the advice remains;

For fixed pitch propellers (including ground adjust) - setting pitch to get  a minimum 5200 rpm Static  - will give you 5200 rpm on initiating take off (WOT) with the engine speed climbing as air speeds increases. Adjust climb angle to keep engine rpm below red line.

Cruise Climb & Cruise should be at a minimum of 5200 rpm.

In a nut shell - Rotax 91 engines thrive on /love rpm - you are not doing them any favours operating below the Rotax recommended engine speeds.

_________________
46

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 12:03 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

That would be a simple summary and allows access to a fuller potential of the engine. But ignores the additional work that has been published recently; if you're running 98 RON then you can do much what you like above 4000rpm. Possibly until any further data is published, such as detail of any resonant bands. Roll-on R3.



Duncan McF.

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 25 April 2021 at 22:58 Griffo <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Soooo! 

 After all that,  the advice remains;

 For fixed pitch propellers (including ground adjust) - setting pitch to get  a minimum 5200 rpm Static  - will give you 5200 rpm on initiating take off (WOT) with the engine speed climbing as air speeds increases. Adjust climb angle to keep engine rpm below red line.

 Cruise Climb & Cruise should be at a minimum of 5200 rpm.

 I a nut shell - Rotax 91 engines thrive on /love rpm - you are not doing them any favours operating below the Rotax recommended engine speeds.

 

 --------

 46

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501517#501517

JohnFrance

Joined: 17 Sep 2014
Posts: 78
Location: Grenoble France

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 2:04 am Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Just out of interest, when I search for SL-912-016R1 I only find the 2016 version even on the Rotax site. What am I missing?



Regarding propeller settings on my mono, WOT static is 5400 rpm, WOT at 3500â€™ near ISA conditions 5500 rpm, WOT climb (at) 65 kts 5200. Cruise (at)28â€ MAP 135 kts and 5100 rpm using 20 ltr m/hr. 

The consumption is higher than I would like so I am now throttling back to around 27,2â€ which is around 5000 rpm. 

The propeller is a ground adjustable EProps V20 1,6m diameter. 



I hope this is useful.

_________________
Europa mono Nr 192

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 4:06 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

https://www.flyrotax.com/services/technical-documentation.html

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 26 April 2021 at 11:04 JohnFrance <77alembert(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Just out of interest, when I search for SL-912-016R1 I only find the 2016 version even on the Rotax site. What am I missing?

 

 Regarding propeller settings on my mono, WOT static is 5400 rpm, WOT at 3500Ã¢Â€Â™ near ISA conditions 5500 rpm, WOT climb (at) 65 kts 5200. Cruise (at)28Ã¢Â€Â MAP 135 kts and 5100 rpm using 20 ltr m/hr. 

 The consumption is higher than I would like so I am now throttling back to around 27,2Ã¢Â€Â which is around 5000 rpm. 

 The propeller is a ground adjustable EProps V20 1,6m diameter. 

 

 I hope this is useful.

 

 --------

 Europa mono Nr 192

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501520#501520

Peter jeffers

Joined: 24 Aug 2020
Posts: 20
Location: hp143hr

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 6:01 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Hi Revision 1 of this service letter was published in 2016 and refers to amongst others the 912 UL and 912 ULS. Revision 2 of the same SI was issued this year and refers to  amongst other Rotax engines to the 912ULS. Critically not to the 912 US (80HP).

Perhaps this may help.

Pete 

 

--

_________________
Pete

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:21 am Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

I want to thank all of you that participated in this discussion. I personally have to say I have learned a lot in the subject of operating a Europa with a GA prop. 



I think that of particular value has been all the data received regarding RPM/MAP and speeds for the Europa monowheel. 



The discovery of the latest Rotax SL-912-016 is of particular interest. I still need to read this SL in detail but the chart presented is a total departure from all the information presented in the past. If I interpret it correctly, with RON 95, you have to be at 5500 RPM to be 100% sure you will not have a detonation event at WOT. On the other hand, anything over 4000 RPM with RON 98 (at) WOT is safe.



In the usual Rotax way, it leaves you scratching your head but I welcome the change. For now I decided to switch to premium 93 octane (US) straight E10 fuel. I was using 50-50 ethanol free 90 and premium 93 but in light of this chart I think the gain is safety, while I experiment with my prop, is huge if using the higher grade gasoline.



But one set of data is of particular interest to me and would like to discuss further:



JohnFrance: Your claim of being able to cruise at 5100/28" at 135 kts (indicated?) while still climb 5200/WOT at 65 kts is amazing and want to learn more. I do have a DUC Swirl that makes similar claims and once I finish testing my Woodcomp (which is not looking very impressive so far) I will try the DUC. But would like to learn more about this EProps V20.



Great thread guys. this info is so important for those getting started with operating a Europa. (my next topic will be fuels  )



Best Regards,

Chris

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 12:22 am Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

<<<<Just>>>>



John,

Surprisingly the Rotax Owner website does not show the Rev 2 of this SL.

To get R2, search the Rotax factory website https://www.flyrotax.com/home.html 



Remi

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:41 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Im having trouble finding the R2. Even from the rotax site. Anyone have a direct linky, or attach?



Many thx,

Pete



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Apr 26, 2021, at 12:30 PM, n7188u <chmgarb(at)gmail.com> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 I want to thank all of you that participated in this discussion. I personally have to say I have learned a lot in the subject of operating a Europa with a GA prop. 

 

 I think that of particular value has been all the data received regarding RPM/MAP and speeds for the Europa monowheel. 

 

 The discovery of the latest Rotax SL-912-016 is of particular interest. I still need to read this SL in detail but the chart presented is a total departure from all the information presented in the past. If I interpret it correctly, with RON 95, you have to be at 5500 RPM to be 100% sure you will not have a detonation event at WOT. On the other hand, anything over 4000 RPM with RON 98 (at) WOT is safe.

 

 In the usual Rotax way, it leaves you scratching your head but I welcome the change. For now I decided to switch to premium 93 octane (US) straight E10 fuel. I was using 50-50 ethanol free 90 and premium 93 but in light of this chart I think the gain is safety, while I experiment with my prop, is huge if using the higher grade gasoline.

 

 But one set of data is of particular interest to me and would like to discuss further:

 

 JohnFrance: Your claim of being able to cruise at 5100/28" at 135 kts (indicated?) while still climb 5200/WOT at 65 kts is amazing and want to learn more. I do have a DUC Swirl that makes similar claims and once I finish testing my Woodcomp (which is not looking very impressive so far) I will try the DUC. But would like to learn more about this EProps V20.

 

 Great thread guys. this info is so important for those getting started with operating a Europa. (my next topic will be fuels  )

 

 Best Regards,

 Chris

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501525#501525

Remi Guerner

Joined: 14 Dec 2010
Posts: 284

Posted: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:53 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Here it is

SL-912-016R2_914-014R2_Essential information regarding engine behavior performance and manifold pressure data for ROTAX Engine Types 912 and 914 (Series).pdf

Description:

Download

Filename:

SL-912-016R2_914-014R2_Essential information regarding engine behavior performance and manifold pressure data for ROTAX Engine Types 912 and 914 (Series).pdf

Filesize:

113.53 KB

Downloaded:

711 Time(s)

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:33 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Word of caution to all you aspiring fighter pilots trying for the ultimate performance from your engine/prop:



Auto fuels (95 & 98 RON) are; Not subject to the some quality control standards of AvGas - variation due to adulteration & contamination with other fuels is common.



I use 98 RON most of the time. 95 RON if 98 is not available and on very rare occasions, when no ULP obtainable, AvGas.



I have always used 98 RON on the assumption (hopefully not false) that if the fuel had been adulterated, with other fuels (lower grade ULP petrol, Ethanol blend or diesel) then I am burning at least the equivalent of 95 RON.



So my advise is; Be conservative with the way you set up your engine/prop

_________________
46

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:16 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Of slightly more concern is that UL91 is only 96 RON.

https://www.warteraviation.com/fuels/avgas-wa-ul-91/



Duncan McF.



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 29 April 2021 at 02:33 Griffo <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Word of caution to all you aspiring fighter pilots trying for the ultimate performance from your engine/prop:

 

 Auto fuels (95 & 98 RON) are; Not subject to the some quality control standards of AvGas - variation due to adulteration & contamination with other fuels is common.

 

 I use 98 RON most of the time. 95 RON if 98 is not available and on very rare occasions, when no ULP obtainable, AvGas.

 

 I have always used 98 RON on the assumption (hopefully not false) that if the fuel had been adulterated, with other fuels (lower grade ULP petrol, Ethanol blend or diesel) then I am burning at least the equivalent of 95 RON.

 

 So my advise is; Be conservative with the way you set up your engine/prop

 

 --------

 46

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501547#501547

Paul M 383

Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 97
Location: United Kingdom

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Or 95 RON, if you believe bp:



https://www.bp.com/en/global/air-bp/aviation-fuel/ul91.html



https://www.bp.com/content/dam/bp/business-sites/en/global/air-bp/documents/aviation-fuel/unleaded-ul91-leaflet-uk-sept2019.pdf

-------- Original message --------

From: D McFadyean <ami-mcfadyean(at)talktalk.net>

Date: 30/04/2021 11:19 (GMT+00:00)

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

Subject: Re: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS






Of slightly more concern is that UL91 is only 96 RON.

https://emea01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.warteraviation.com%2Ffuels%2Favgas-wa-ul-91%2F&amp;data=04%7C01%7C%7C688e2456b2d2442f717e08d90bc18138%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C637553747996701070%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&amp;sdata=ZK5Yo9MyYy7zNTlMxCwo4%2FjCwt%2Fsn3lsMCm5XIU9EGA%3D&amp;reserved=0



Duncan McF.



[quote] On 29 April 2021 at 02:33 Griffo <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au> wrote:

 



 Word of caution to all you aspiring fighter pilots trying for the ultimate performance from your engine/prop:



 Auto fuels (95 & 98 RON) are; Not subject to the some quality control standards of AvGas - variation due to adulteration & contamination with other fuels is common.



 I use 98 RON most of the time. 95 RON if 98 is not available and on very rare occasions, when no ULP obtainable, AvGas.



 I have always used 98 RON on the assumption (hopefully not false) that if the fuel had been adulterated, with other fuels (lower grade ULP petrol, Ethanol blend or diesel) then I am burning at least the equivalent of 95 RON

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Paul/Duncan,



Not sure of your message? 



You both seem to be saying, the fuel you are commenting on, is at least 95+ RON. This is the lowest grade that ROTAX recommends, so should be OK.

_________________
46

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 2:10 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

Yes, UL91 should be OK and (operationally important) doesn't degrade it octane rating as quickly as MOGAS. The latest SL shows that the 912 operates on slim detonation margins, so there is little flexibility for any departure from the published stricter operational regimes for 95RON.

Duncan McF.

 	  Quote: 	
		   On 30 April 2021 at 23:18 Griffo <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au> wrote:

 

 

 

 

 Paul/Duncan,

 

 Not sure of your message? 

 

 You both seem to be saying, the fuel you are commenting on, is at least 95+ RON. This is the lowest grade that ROTAX recommends, so should be OK.

 

 --------

 46

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501623#501623

europaul383(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Sat May 01, 2021 2:33 am Post subject: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

With UL91 only being 95 or 96 RON (depending who's you get) that means you can't set the higher MAP that you can with 98 RON: e.g. (at) 5100 RPM it's 29.9 inHg for 98 vs 27.8 for 95...



[img]cid:storage_emulated_0__EmailTempImage_HEV_1619864838321_jpg_1619864838366[/img]

-------- Original message --------

From: Griffo <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au> 

Date: 30/04/2021  23:21  (GMT+00:00) 

To: europa-list(at)matronics.com 

Subject: Europa-List: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS 



--> Europa-List message posted by: "Griffo" <scangriffin(at)bigpond.com.au>



Paul/Duncan,



Not sure of your message? 



You both seem to be saying, the fuel you are commenting on, is at least 95+ RON. This is the lowest grade that ROTAX recommends, so should be OK.



--------

46





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501623#501623

_-============================================================

_-=          - The Europa-List Email Forum -

_-= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator to browse

_-= the many List utilities such as List Un/Subscription,

_-= Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ,

_-= Photoshare, and much much more:

_-=

_-=   --> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List

_-=

_-============================================================

_-=               - MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -

_-= Same great content also available via the Web Forums!

_-=

_-=   --> http://forums.matronics.com

_-=

_-============================================================

_-=              - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -

_-= Add some info to the Matronics Email List Wiki!

_-=   --> http://wiki.matronics.com

_-============================================================

_-=             - List Contribution Web Site -

_-=  Thank you for your generous support!

_-=                              -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

_-=   --> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

_-============================================================

HEV_1619864838321.jpg

Description:

Filesize:

266.42 KB

Viewed:

8892 Time(s)

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

My point is:Very simple.  If you can not be absolutely sure what RON the fuel you are putting into your tank, you would be advised to be conservative with your engine tuning

_________________
46

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Sun Nov 28, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Cruise speed data for Monowheel with 912ULS

UPDATE!



After 3 attempts to purchase a Europa (my youthful fantasy aircraft) - I have acquired an almost completed Sonex/Rotax 912ULS motivating an Airmaster 3 blade CS prop. So a brand new aircraft and all components. It will be interesting to see how it performs compared with the, in may ways, similar Europa.

_________________
46

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours Goto page Previous 1, 2
Page 2 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum