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mcurley68(at)hotmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 6:10 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

I recently read a recommendation for using thread lacing tape instead of ty-wraps to organize wire looms. Also noted that firewall forward should be using "high temp" lacing. What is this high temp lacing and where can I get an appropriate quantity for one  aircraft?

  

 

  Mark Curley

  Lake Havasu City, AZ

  building Van's RV-6

stein(at)steinair.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 7:39 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Hi Mark,

Â 

Iâ€™m afraid we donâ€™t have any high temp lacing cord.Â  Typically for Firewall Forward we usually use either adel type clamps to secure things, or we use high temp cable ties (tefzel).

Â 

Cheers,

Stein

Â 

Â 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Mark Curley

Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 9:10 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: Re: Thread Lacing Tape

Â 

Â 



Â 



I recently read a recommendation for using thread lacing tape instead of ty-wraps to organize wire looms. Also noted that firewall forward should be using "high temp" lacing. What is this high temp lacing and where can I get an appropriate quantity for one aircraft?



Â 



Mark Curley



Lake Havasu City, AZ



building Van's RV-6

Voyager

Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:16 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Itâ€™s not cheap and I have yet to find a place to buy small quantities.



https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/tech-lace-series-nomex/35160



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On May 7, 2021, at 11:42 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> wrote:



ï»¿

Hi Mark,

 

Iâ€™m afraid we donâ€™t have any high temp lacing cord.  Typically for Firewall Forward we usually use either adel type clamps to secure things, or we use high temp cable ties (tefzel).

 

Cheers,

Stein

 

 

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Mark Curley

Sent: Friday, May 7, 2021 9:10 AM

To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com (aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com)

Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: Thread Lacing Tape

 

 



 



I recently read a recommendation for using thread lacing tape instead of ty-wraps to organize wire looms. Also noted that firewall forward should be using "high temp" lacing. What is this high temp lacing and where can I get an appropriate quantity for one aircraft?



 



Mark Curley



Lake Havasu City, AZ



building Van's RV-6



  =================================== =================================== =================================== =================================== ===================================

echristley(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:29 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications (you can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as hard as ty wraps).

I like these instead of ty wraps.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940



To see if they are up to the job, use one to tie a wire to a 1/2" tube, then see if you can do a chin-up on the wire.

                  

                                                                    On Friday, May 7, 2021, 10:11:27 AM EDT, Mark Curley <mcurley68(at)hotmail.com> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                     #yiv0324448453 P {margin-top:0;margin-bottom:0;}    

 

  

 

   I recently read a recommendation for using thread lacing tape instead of ty-wraps to organize wire looms. Also noted that firewall forward should be using "high temp" lacing. What is this high temp lacing and where can I get an appropriate quantity for one  aircraft?

  

 

  Mark Curley

  Lake Havasu City, AZ

  building Van's RV-6

Michael Wynn

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 148
Location: San Ramon, CA

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:43 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Hey Mark, 

 

  I will confess to maybe doing this wrong, but I used the standard lacing tape from ACS all over my RV8.  The stuff firewall forward has held up well.  I use adel clamps on warm parts but the wires for the EGT and CHT and all the electrical are regular  Dacron tape and I have had no issues.

 

 Michael Wynn

  Livermore, CA

  RV8 Flying

  RV 10 Starting the build

  

 

  

  --

_________________
Michael Wynn
RV 8
San Ramon, CA

Laz

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Posts: 30

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 9:52 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

How much do you need.Â  I have a roll and can send you some .Â  Itâ€™s hard to find but I got lucky and found a spool,

Call or text me

4195735043



On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  

         In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications (you can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as hard as ty wraps).

I like these instead of ty wraps.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940



To see if they are up to the job, use one to tie a wire to a 1/2" tube, then see if you can do a chin-up on the wire.

                  



                                                                    On Friday, May 7, 2021, 10:11:27 AM EDT, Mark Curley <mcurley68(at)hotmail.com (mcurley68(at)hotmail.com)> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                         

 

  

 

   I recently read a recommendation for using thread lacing tape instead of ty-wraps to organize wire looms. Also noted that firewall forward should be using "high temp" lacing. What is this high temp lacing and where can I get an appropriate quantity for one  aircraft?

  

 

  Mark Curley

  Lake Havasu City, AZ

  building Van's RV-6

neal.george(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Fri May 07, 2021 5:41 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

I use TechFlex lacing with good results.

They offer many styles and finishes.  What I have is not waxed, but has a finish treatment that is ever so slightly tacky.  The package is long gone, and there is no ID that I can find on the spool. I found their tech support staff very helpful in selecting the tape. 



 Neal George

George Aviation

850-218-2939

====================

 On May 7, 2021, at 12:15 PM, Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting(at)frontier.com (m.whiting(at)frontier.com)> wrote:

Itâ€™s not cheap and I have yet to find a place to buy small quantities.https://www.digikey.com/catalog/en/partgroup/tech-lace-series-nomex/35160

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 7:37 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

At 12:42 PM 5/7/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Hey Mark, 



 I will confess to maybe doing this wrong, but I used the standard lacing tape from ACS all over my RV8.  The stuff firewall forward has held up well.  I use adel clamps on warm parts but the wires for the EGT and CHT and all the electrical are regular  Dacron tape and I have had no issues. 	


   . . . your experience echoes string tie practice at

   the spam-can factories too. Don't recall ever

   seeing anything more exotic than Type II

   (Dacron) around the factory or experimental hangar.



   The Dacron lace has been around since the 60's.

   The Mil-T43435 spec got it's first UPDATE to

   revision A and 1969!



   Here's a chart that speaks to the various iterations

   of M43435 lace:



  https://tinyurl.com/ydottlf9



   Size 3 was the most popular where I worked.

   Size 2 would work for you well especially if

   you can get a 'deal' on a partial or surplus

   spool.



   It has been used under the cowl on hundreds

   of thousands of GA aircraft . . .who knows

   how many transport/military machines. It's

   rated for service at up to 177C (350F).

   Nothing, short of directly radiated energy

   from an exhaust stack, will get anywhere near

   that warm.



   Learn how to tie good knots:



  http://aeroelectric.com/articles/cable_lace/cable_lace.html



   An enhanced method 1 calls for converting

   the clove-hitch into a single or double

   pass constrictor knot . . . but the clove hitch

   works well too.



   Here is one source:

  

  https://tinyurl.com/ydta87er



   Yeah, I know it's breathtakingly expensive . . .

   after all . . . it's just fancy kite string . . .

   right?



   Trust me, return on investment is huge.

   It will take some real time experience in

   the shop but by the time you go through the

   first 500 yards of the 1500 yard spool, it

   will have paid for itself several times over

   in labor/materials costs of alternatives.



   Keep an eye out on eBay. Full or partial spools

   show up there from time to time. That's where

   I think I got most of my inventory.



 



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:01 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

 	  Quote: 	
		  On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:  In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications (you can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as hard as ty wraps). 	
 

     I presume your referring to the running lace technique

     popular Wwwaaaayyyy back when.



  https://tinyurl.com/yh94ktzb



      This is not recommended.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I like these instead of ty wraps.   https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940 	
 

     Strength is but ONE issue. What's the service life

     of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are

     you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this

     technology?



     I would use these things to hold stuff together

     during fabrication and even for some early

     flight testing. But then I'd replace with

     string ties.



     By the way, got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth

     and couldn't see what I was saying. The standard

     put-up for M43435 lacing tape is 500 yards, not

     1500.



     Found this offering for polyester lacing tape

     on Amazon:



  https://tinyurl.com/4fp4n33f



     Bet a dollar to a donut that this is the same stuff

     put up on larger spools and 'certified'. I've

     ordered a spool to get a hands-on look-see. Watch

     this space. Quantity and price is attractive. The ad

     doesn't speak to dimensions of the lace . . . I'll

     check it out.



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

Voyager

Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 8:36 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Running lace is not recommended?  Really??



Better tell NASAâ€¦

https://www.sandman.com/files/NASAcable%20lacing40-43.pdf



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On May 8, 2021, at 12:05 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



ï»¿   	  Quote: 	
		  On Fri, May 7, 2021 at 1:33 PM Ernest Christley <echristley(at)att.net (echristley(at)att.net)> wrote:  In my view, thread lacing is a lot of work, and limits modifications (you can sometimes squeeze another wire into a loom, but it is as hard as ty wraps). 	
 

     I presume your referring to the running lace technique

     popular Wwwaaaayyyy back when.



  https://tinyurl.com/yh94ktzb



      This is not recommended.



 	  Quote: 	
		    I like these instead of ty wraps.   https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940 	
 

     Strength is but ONE issue. What's the service life

     of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are

     you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this

     technology?



     I would use these things to hold stuff together

     during fabrication and even for some early

     flight testing. But then I'd replace with

     string ties.



     By the way, got my tongue tangled around my eyeteeth

     and couldn't see what I was saying. The standard

     put-up for M43435 lacing tape is 500 yards, not

     1500.



     Found this offering for polyester lacing tape

     on Amazon:



  https://tinyurl.com/4fp4n33f



     Bet a dollar to a donut that this is the same stuff

     put up on larger spools and 'certified'. I've

     ordered a spool to get a hands-on look-see. Watch

     this space. Quantity and price is attractive. The ad

     doesn't speak to dimensions of the lace . . . I'll

     check it out.



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 11:49 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

At 11:34 AM 5/8/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Running lace is not recommended?  Really??



 Better tell NASA… 	


   Okay, what does it do for you that periodic

   ties don't?



   I think it's a cost/benefit ratio thing.

   It looks cool but does it add to the

   longevity, maintainabilty or performance

   of the finished product?



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

Voyager

Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:25 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

There is no functional difference, but there is an installation difference.  For runs of any length, a running lace is 2-3 times faster to install while providing the same level of functionality.  I can tie 3 running ties in the time required to tie and cut one spot tie. That is the main difference I see.



I will turn your question around: why use spot ties when a running lace is three times faster with equal functionality?



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On May 8, 2021, at 3:51 PM, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:



ï»¿  At 11:34 AM 5/8/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  Running lace is not recommended?  Really??



 Better tell NASAâ€¦ 	


   Okay, what does it do for you that periodic

   ties don't?



   I think it's a cost/benefit ratio thing.

   It looks cool but does it add to the

   longevity, maintainabilty or performance

   of the finished product?



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

     =================================== =================================== =================================== =================================== ===================================

echristley(at)att.net
Guest

Posted: Sat May 08, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

On Saturday, May 8, 2021, 12:02:38 PM EDT, Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com> wrote:                 

                 



                 



                    	  Quote: 	
		  I like these instead of ty wraps.   https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940 	
 

     Strength is but ONE issue. What's the service life

     of these devices in the aircraft environment? Are

     you offering to the the 'beta tester' for this

     technology?



    

  

I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for years.  Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was finding the end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap" started.  Just as strong as when I put them on.

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

 	  Quote: 	
		    	  Quote: 	
		    I like these instead of ty wraps.    https://www.homedepot.com/p/VELCRO-Brand-8-in-x-1-2-in-Reusable-Ties-50-Pack-90924HD/202261940  	
 I've got some wires tied up in an airplane that have been there for years.  Going back in to make modifications, the hardest part was finding the end of the velcro so that I could get the "unwrap" started.  Just as strong as when I put them on. 	


   Good data point! Are your examples the

   same product as above?  I note that the

   product cited is 1/2 x 8" . . . can you

   cut them into smaller segments? 8" seems

   like a LOT of stuff to wrap around a few

   wires.



 



 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:23 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

At 03:24 PM 5/8/2021, you wrote:

  	  Quote: 	
		  There is no functional difference, but there is an installation difference.  For runs of any length, a running lace is 2-3 times faster to install while providing the same level of functionality.  I can tie 3 running ties in the time required to tie and cut one spot tie. That is the main difference I see.



 I will turn your question around: why use spot ties when a running lace is three times faster with equal functionality? 	


     Doing a running lace is an acquired skill

     if you're going to secure each 'loop'

     around the bundle. Lacking such security,

     a break in the lace run will relax many

     loops around the bundle. Further, you have to work

     with as long a hunk of lace as you can

     manage without tangling . . . generally

     2x your 'reach'.



     Individual ties of string or tie-wraps have

     been standard operating technique for every

     airframe company I've worked for. 



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:47 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

 	  Quote: 	
		  



   

	


Folks,

I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!

Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.

On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.Â 

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.Â 

Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelect
Guest

Posted: Sun May 09, 2021 7:15 pm Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

At 09:46 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote:



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,



 I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and  made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!



 Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the  thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.



 On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.Â 	


   Good data sir, thank you.



 

 

   Bob . . .



   Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

   survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

   out of that stuff?"

bobnoffs

Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 132
Location: northern wi.

Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:03 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

fwiw , when i started using it 20 yrs. ago the breaking strength was 80 lbs. . plenty for whatÂ  i wanted.



On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 10:18 PM Robert L. Nuckolls, III <nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com (nuckolls.bob(at)aeroelectric.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		    At 09:46 PM 5/9/2021, you wrote:



 

  	  Quote: 	
		  Folks,



 I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and  made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!



 Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the  thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.



 On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.Ã‚ 	


 Â  Good data sir, thank you.



 

 

 Â  Bob . . .



 Â  Un impeachable logic: George Carlin asked, "If black boxes

 Â  survive crashes, why don't they make the whole airplane

 Â  out of that stuff?"

Voyager

Joined: 30 Jun 2020
Posts: 77

Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:40 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Art,



I went to look at your video and found it was one I had already watched.  ðŸ˜

I likely will do a hybrid approach on my S-21 as well.  I will probably lace the fuselage runs since they are long and straight and I donâ€™t believe they go through grommets, but I donâ€™t remember what RANS recommends there.

The wing wires go through grommets in the ribs so I probably will spot tie those 3-4 times between each rib.  A running lace going through grommets would be a nuisance.

I also plan to spot tie behind the panel as the runs will be short with many loops and branches.  I have small velcro cord organizers made for charging cords and will use those as temporary organizers as I run the wires.  However, I plan to replace all velcro with spot ties once I am done.  Velcro just screams â€œamateurâ€ to me, and yes, I realize I am building an experimental - amateur built airplane.  However, as a retired EE, I donâ€™t want my electrical system to scream amateur to everyone who sees it.

In front of the firewall, I will use Adel clamps and zip ties very sparingly.  Even though zip ties are easy to use and easy to remove and used widely in the auto world, I just donâ€™t like them.  They just scream â€œmass producedâ€ to me.

The nice thing about E-AB, is that we all get to choose our solutions and honor our biases.  Cheers.

Matt



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On May 9, 2021, at 10:53 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name> wrote:



ï»¿ 	  Quote: 	
		  



   

	


Folks,

I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!

Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.

On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps. 

    -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. 

Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

art(at)zemon.name
Guest

Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: Thread Lacing Tape

Matt,

It sounds like your plane will be gorgeous and exude the Professional Look. Hopefully I'll get to see it at Oshkosh one of these years. I was more interested in getting my plane safely into the air so I took the expedient path. Now I am planningÂ to redo the panel and rewire that end of the plane, because I don't like how it looks. C'est la vie.

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

On Mon, May 10, 2021 at 6:52 AM Matthew S. Whiting <m.whiting(at)frontier.com (m.whiting(at)frontier.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  Art,



I went to look at your video and found it was one I had already watched. Â ðŸ˜

I likely will do a hybrid approach on my S-21 as well.Â  I will probably lace the fuselage runs since they are long and straight and I donâ€™t believe they go through grommets, but I donâ€™t remember what RANS recommends there.

The wing wires go through grommets in the ribs so I probably will spot tie those 3-4 times between each rib.Â  A running lace going through grommets would be a nuisance.

I also plan to spot tie behind the panel as the runs will be short with many loops and branches.Â  I have small velcro cord organizers made for charging cords and will use those as temporary organizers as I run the wires.Â  However, I plan to replace all velcro with spot ties once I am done.Â  Velcro just screams â€œamateurâ€ to me, and yes, I realize I am building an experimental - amateur built airplane.Â  However, as a retired EE, I donâ€™t want my electrical system to scream amateur to everyone who sees it.

In front of the firewall, I will use Adel clamps and zip ties very sparingly.Â  Even though zip ties are easy to use and easy to remove and used widely in the auto world, I just donâ€™t like them.Â  They just scream â€œmass producedâ€ to me.

The nice thing about E-AB, is that we all get to choose our solutions and honor our biases.Â  Cheers.

Matt



Sent from my iPad



 	  Quote: 	
		  On May 9, 2021, at 10:53 PM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:



ï»¿ 	  Quote: 	
		  



   

	


Folks,

I'll chime in here, too. I used both lacing and Velcro ties in my airplane, on the cold side of the firewall. I laced the long runs of bundles of wires that I fabricated prior to installing them in the airplane. I used the lacing tape from Aircraft Spruce and made a little video on how I did it. No, it's not NASA spec but it's secure. I did have to remove the lacing from a couple of bundles and, believe me, it's secure!

Inside the cabin and behind the panel, I used the thin Velcro ties that Bob linked to. I like these because they are very thin and flexible so they are easy to use, even when you only have a few wires to tie up. I'm not worried about longevity. Name-brand Velcro has been around a long time so I trust the material. Furthermore, it's a low-risk application. If they start to deteriorate, I'll notice during the annual inspections and I can replace them. These ties are only securing bundles of wire, not heavy components which hold the airplane together.

On the hot side of the firewall, I used the normal heat tolerant stuff: zip-ties and Adel clamps.Â 

Â  Â  -- Art Z.

-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.Â 

Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz





 

	




	


-- 

https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.Â 

Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

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