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EarthX vs Concord Batteries

 
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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:55 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
Is my head on straight?
    -- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. 
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

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recapen(at)earthlink.net
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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:17 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
EarthX batteries don’t play well in the cold!
After a couple of winter seasons of having it cut-out during the starting cycle (with a full overnight charge), the EarthX folks recommended a battery heater.  I have it wired in with my cylinder bands and oil sump heaters (Reiff).  Happiness returns…..

From: owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com <owner-aeroelectric-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Art Zemon
Sent: Saturday, May 8, 2021 8:54 AM
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries


Folks,

 

It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.

 

The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.

 

My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.

 

The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.

 

In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.

 

Is my head on straight?

 

-- Art Z.



--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/
Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.

Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 5:36 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.

On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
Quote:
Folks,

It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.

The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
the hangar in the afternoon.

My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
with B & C Aero voltage regulators.

The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
threatening if the battery failed in flight.

In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.

Is my head on straight?

    -- Art Z.

--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz


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PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 6:36 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
I've been really happy with the Earthx, for weight savings, durability compared to the oddysey, and low self-discharge between flights.
On May 8, 2021 09:57:35 Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> wrote:


Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>


IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.


On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
Quote:
Folks,


It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.


The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
the hangar in the afternoon.


My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
with B & C Aero voltage regulators.


The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
threatening if the battery failed in flight.


In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.


Is my head on straight?


-- Art Z.


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 12:24 pm    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
They do add a failure mode or two, and add requirements for alternator size, etc. And while loss of battery may not be a hazard in itself, human reaction to it could be hazardous in the wrong circumstances. Ex: getting a  minor shock while working from a ladder could cause a serious fall.
FWIW, most typically sized Americans could save more weight than the E-X, by spending *less* money (on food). Wink
Charlie

Sent from BlueMail
On May 8, 2021, at 7:59 AM, Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:
Quote:
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
Is my head on straight?
-- Art Z.
--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge.
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovit



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user9253



Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 1922
Location: Riley TWP Michigan
PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2021 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
Lowes sells Deka AGM batteries that are made in the USA. Part number ETX18L is $94 with free shipping to store.

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bobnoffs



Joined: 04 Jul 2012
Posts: 132
Location: northern wi.
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 4:22 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
earthx is expensive and you don't need the weight savings. i wouldn't even look at concorde, you can do just as well for way less money with an odessey. i think the trick to longlife with an agm battery is to keep them off a constant maintainer. they hold their charge for months so no need.

On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:28 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.

On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
> Is my head on straight?
>
>      -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
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art(at)zemon.name
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 5:32 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.
I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.
    -- Art Z.
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. 
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

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email(at)jaredyates.com
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:22 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.
I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.
    -- Art Z.
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)> wrote:

Quote:
Folks,
It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.
My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.
In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.


--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. 
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz




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Kellym



Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1705
Location: Sun Lakes AZ
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 6:35 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
Yes, batteries need to be shielded from heat. On the firewall should not
be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or
similar insulation around the battery box, or even creating a metal
shield spaced a bit outside the battery. You can buy at least 3 PC680s
for the price of one EarthX. Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 get
much better life than one year, here in Arizona.
My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue,
but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage
when outside. 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensure reliability on long
cross-country trips.
Kelly

On 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
Quote:
I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to
replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because
the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is
better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment,
perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in
the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has.

On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name
<mailto:art(at)zemon.name>> wrote:

Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and
doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think
that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360.

I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very
much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.

    -- Art Z.

On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name
<mailto:art(at)zemon.name>> wrote:

Folks,

It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current
group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more
"traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane
that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge
experimentation.

The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We
don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal;
over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon.

My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup
alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators.

The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with
two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient
but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight.

In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its
integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my
old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the
voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or
so. The primary is already set to 14.5.



--
https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub
two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz



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KCHD
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:12 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying.  Old fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require servicing and care not to discharge fully very often.  AGM are essentially the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when discharging and getting hot so they last longer.  Typically I'm seeing PC 680's lasting 4 to 5  years even when left over winter unused outside in Alaska.  I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old and still cranking.  The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft.

In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat.  I'd hate to have a battery fire there.  In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu in.)well and save a lot of weight too.
Bernie
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.

On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
> Is my head on straight?
>
>      -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
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PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 9:47 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
I went through two Odyssey batteries in my BD-4. The first one lasted just over a year and was replaced on warranty. The next one was still going strong after 3 years.

In our F1 Rocket we removed dual Odyssey 680s and replaced them with dual EarthX 680s. Big weight savings and because they were in the tail, a bigger increase is baggage capacity. One EarthX battery failed in under a year and was replaced on warranty.
In our club Zenith, we just replaced our failing motorcycle lead acid battery with an EarthX 680. The EarthX was chosen because our aircraft is a bit of a new technology demonstrator for the members and some of them wanted to try out the latest battery tech. Because our battery is in the engine compartment and our aircraft is slightly tail heavy to begin with, the lighter battery has reduced our baggage capacity by about 20 pounds.


On Sun, May 9, 2021, 10:19 Bernie Willis <arcticarrow(at)gmail.com (arcticarrow(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
Let me share some battery experiences after over 50 years flying.  Old fashion lead acid have been wonderful for many years but do require servicing and care not to discharge fully very often.  AGM are essentially the same but put together is a better way so the plates won't contact when discharging and getting hot so they last longer.  Typically I'm seeing PC 680's lasting 4 to 5  years even when left over winter unused outside in Alaska.  I have original AGM batteries in my diesel truck at 14 years old and still cranking.  The earthX seems to be the best of the lithium based batteries and as far as I know the FAA certified one is safe but in our area where experimentation is very active a few of the other lithium batteries have caught fire and destroyed their aircraft.

In our cubs we place the PC 680 on its side under the pilots seat.  I'd hate to have a battery fire there.  In Cessna 180/182 and Bonanza we put them on the engine side of the firewall. They crank these engines (470 cu in.)well and save a lot of weight too.
Bernie
On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 10:20 PM Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:

Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>

IMHO, jumping from lead-acid technology to lithium may be worthwhile if
it fills a need. On the other hand, you can stay with lead-acid at a
much lower price, with better cranking.
Concorde sells FAA approved lead-acid batteries using absorbed glass mat
technology, also know as recombinant gas technology, which is why their
line starts with the letters RG. You are looking at somewhere near $300
for 12V models.
Odessey sells an improved AGM version, apparently using slightly
different lead alloys, perhaps a little different in interior layout.
The cost is under $200, depending on whether you want say the 925 model
that is very close to the RG-25AXC in capacity and wt, while smaller in
physical size. If you go for the 680 mode, it is a lot smaller and
lighter, adequate for most purposes for your engine, but lower capacity
for an IFR alternator failure situation, costs something under $150.
I only briefly looked at EarthX some time ago and was turned off by the
cost, and I didn't need the weight savings for my particular W&B
situation. I use the 925 for the reserve capacity, and operate in
Aridzona. Got 5 yrs on the last one and could have gone longer.
In certified planes I used the Concorde and typically got 3-3.5 yrs life.
All depends on your needs for cranking, reserve capacity and how much
money you want to spend.

On 5/8/2021 5:54 AM, Art Zemon wrote:
> Folks,
>
> It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group
> think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like
> Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work."
> I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation.
>
> The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get
> terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in
> the hangar in the afternoon.
>
> My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators
> with B & C Aero voltage regulators.
>
> The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two
> alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life
> threatening if the battery failed in flight.
>
> In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS
> would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery.
> At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage
> regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5.
>
> Is my head on straight?
>
>      -- Art Z.
>
> --
> https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/>
> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two
> stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. /
> Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz
===========
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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===========






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Ceengland



Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS
PostPosted: Sun May 09, 2021 8:04 pm    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
There's been some anecdotal evidence that newer Odysseys have had some quality/durability issues (short lifespans), but without knowing each battery's operational history it might not be fair to blame the brand.
I've run generic SLA batteries on the firewall on a couple of RV4s for about 25 years. Never paid the premium for Odysseys. Typical life of around 4-5 years. Most I've ever paid was around $70, when lead prices were elevated. Typical price is around $40. 20AH or 22AH fit the same space as a PC680, with roughly the same cranking amps and more total energy. No vampire loads in the planes, and I never use a maintainer. Planes have often sat for a month or more without running.
Only caution is to check the weight on any generic. If it's several pounds lighter than a PC680, the mfgr is likely lying about AH capacity (though it'll probably still crank the engine without issue).
If it makes you feel better to pay more, that's fine, but my experience is that there's no need.
And again, it's cheaper and healthier to lose the weight in the cockpit than the battery.

Wink
Charlie
Sent from BlueMail
On May 9, 2021, at 8:15 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:[quote]
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>Yes, batteries need to be shielded from heat. On the firewall should not be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or similar insulation around the battery box, or even creating a metal shield spaced a bit outside the battery. You can buy at least 3 PC680s for the price of one EarthX. Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 get much better life than one year, here in Arizona.My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue, but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage when outside. 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensure reliability on long cross-country trips.KellyOn 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
Quote:
I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name <mailto:art(at)zemon.name>> wrote: Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360. I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight. -- Art Z. On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name <mailto:art(at)zemon.name>> wrote: Folks, It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation. The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon. My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators. The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight. In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / Rabbi Mordechai of Lechocs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution


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PostPosted: Mon May 10, 2021 7:29 am    Post subject: EarthX vs Concord Batteries Reply with quote
OK, LOL, with both Charlie and Joe posting with first-hand experience with the "no name" AGM batteries, I decided to try one. I found the Super Start PowerSport ETX20L on the shelf at O'Reilly Auto Airplane Parts. Clearly the same battery that Lowes sells under the Deka name. The store manager told me how great their support is and chuckled when I asked him if that means they will come give me a jump if the battery ever fails to start the airplane. I'm sure that means that he will race right out with the jumper cables.
Thanks again, everybody.
    -- Art Z.
On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 11:18 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:

Quote:
There's been some anecdotal evidence that newer Odysseys have had some quality/durability issues (short lifespans), but without knowing each battery's operational history it might not be fair to blame the brand.
I've run generic SLA batteries on the firewall on a couple of RV4s for about 25 years. Never paid the premium for Odysseys. Typical life of around 4-5 years. Most I've ever paid was around $70, when lead prices were elevated. Typical price is around $40. 20AH or 22AH fit the same space as a PC680, with roughly the same cranking amps and more total energy. No vampire loads in the planes, and I never use a maintainer. Planes have often sat for a month or more without running.
Only caution is to check the weight on any generic. If it's several pounds lighter than a PC680, the mfgr is likely lying about AH capacity (though it'll probably still crank the engine without issue).
If it makes you feel better to pay more, that's fine, but my experience is that there's no need.
And again, it's cheaper and healthier to lose the weight in the cockpit than the battery.

Wink
Charlie
Sent from BlueMail
On May 9, 2021, at 8:15 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>Yes, batteries need to be shielded from heat. On the firewall should not be a terribly hot area, but one could help by placing fire frax or similar insulation around the battery box, or even creating a metal shield spaced a bit outside the battery. You can buy at least 3 PC680s for the price of one EarthX. Members of my EAA chapter using the 680 get much better life than one year, here in Arizona.My Odyssey is located in the rear of aircraft so heat is less an issue, but still exposed to 120 ambient temps, plus sun heating of fuselage when outside. 5 yrs and I replaced just to ensure reliability on long cross-country trips.KellyOn 5/9/2021 7:20 AM, Jared Yates wrote:
Quote:
I found that I could get around a year out of a PC680 before I had to replace it. The Earthx has lasted much longer, and I think it is because the battery is forward of the firewall. The high temp tolerance is better on the Earthx. If your battery isn't in a warm environment, perhaps the PC680 will be up to the task. I've never had any problems in the cold with the Earthx as the other poster has. On Sun, May 9, 2021 at 9:38 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name) <mailto:art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)>> wrote: Thanks for the advice, everybody. After reading what y'all wrote and doing more research, I am leaning toward the Odyssey PC680. I think that will provide plenty of amps for starting my IO-360. I have had to keep my old battery on a trickle charger and am very much looking forward to not needing to hook that up after every flight.     -- Art Z. On Sat, May 8, 2021 at 8:09 AM Art Zemon <art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name) <mailto:art(at)zemon.name (art(at)zemon.name)>> wrote: Folks, It's time to replace my old battery and wonder what the current group think is on EarthX batteries vs. something more "traditional" like Concord. This is a component of my airplane that I want to "just work." I'm not into bleeding edge experimentation. The primary use is starting a Lycoming IO-360 in Missouri. We don't get terribly cold winters but the summers can be brutal; over 100 degrees in the hangar in the afternoon. My charging system is all B & C Aero: primary and backup alternators with B & C Aero voltage regulators. The engine is not electrically dependent (dual mags) and with two alternators and an iPad on board, it would be inconvenient but not life threatening if the battery failed in flight. In that environment, it looks like the EarthX with its integrated BMS would be pretty much a drop-in replacement for my old lead acid battery. At worst, I might need to turn up the voltage on the backup voltage regulator from 13.5 V to 14.0 or so. The primary is already set to 14.5. -- https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/ <https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/> /Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. / Rabbi Mordechai of Lechocs.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigato="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution



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https://CheerfulCurmudgeon.com/Friendship is like a stone. A stone has no value, but when you rub two stones together properly, sparks of fire emerge. 
Rabbi Mordechai of Lechovitz

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