Matronics Email Lists :: View topic - Larger oil cooler

Matronics Email Lists
Web Forum Interface to the Matronics Email Lists

Get Email Distribution Too! FAQ Search Memberlist Usergroups Register

Profile Log in to check your private messages Log in

Larger oil cooler - Classic

Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author Message

michalm

Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 2

Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 10:47 pm Post subject: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Hello fellow Europa enthusiasts!



I'm trying to solve the oil cooling issue in my 912 ULS powered Classic. I have the standard cooling setup with a 10 row oil cooler behind the port radiator and slightly enlarged cowl outlets. On hot days (30 C) and loaded to max weight I very quickly reach 120 C oil temp during a climb of just 2000 ft. If I let it cruise a bit it will go down to 115 C within a few minutes, 110 C if I reach cooler air higher up. The coolant stays below 90 C, except the climb phase where it reaches around 100 C. So far after reading your past discussions I came up with 2 possible solutions:

1. Moving the oil cooler below the spinner.

2. Installing an oil/water heat exchanger to supplement the oil cooler.



The first is a bit invasive and as I'm not the original builder I don't feel fully confident to perform, yet. The second one is tempting but I thought about trying a simpler solution first: exchanging the oil cooler for a larger model. Mocal makes various sizes - the 13 row should fit without issues and perhaps the 16 row version will fit as well (if it can clear the exhaust pipe). 



Has anyone tried this approach? How effective this may be without enlarging the cowl outlets? According to charts on Mocal website I should expect a reduction of oil temp of around 8 C (16 row vs 10 row), but that assumes a free air flow which is most likely not the case inside the cowling.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Wed May 12, 2021 11:11 pm Post subject: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Hi Michalm,

Best solution is to reposition the oil coolant below the spinner. An alteration to the lower cowl with a inlet for the oil cooler. Easily done with composite experience or get someone to do it for you. No bull nose required just keep with the original profile. See photos. I have to place a barrier in winter to keep the temperature up 110C Rotax prefers the engine to run at. Works very well.

Cheers,

Tim





Sent from my iPhone



Tim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street

Fendalton 

CHRISTCHURCH 8052

Hom 03315166



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 13/05/2021, at 18:53, michalm <m.milos(at)me.com> wrote:

 

 

 

 Hello fellow Europa enthusiasts!

 

 I'm trying to solve the oil cooling issue in my 912 ULS powered Classic. I have the standard cooling setup with a 10 row oil cooler behind the port radiator and slightly enlarged cowl outlets. On hot days (30 C) and loaded to max weight I very quickly reach 120 C oil temp during a climb of just 2000 ft. If I let it cruise a bit it will go down to 115 C within a few minutes, 110 C if I reach cooler air higher up. The coolant stays below 90 C, except the climb phase where it reaches around 100 C. So far after reading your past discussions I came up with 2 possible solutions:

 1. Moving the oil cooler below the spinner.

 2. Installing an oil/water heat exchanger to supplement the oil cooler.

 

 The first is a bit invasive and as I'm not the original builder I don't feel fully confident to perform, yet. The second one is tempting but I thought about trying a simpler solution first: exchanging the oil cooler for a larger model. Mocal makes various sizes - the 13 row should fit without issues and perhaps the 16 row version will fit as well (if it can clear the exhaust pipe). 

 

 Has anyone tried this approach? How effective this may be without enlarging the cowl outlets? According to charts on Mocal website I should expect a reduction of oil temp of around 8 C (16 row vs 10 row), but that assumes a free air flow which is most likely not the case inside the cowling.

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=501888#501888

 

 

 

 

 

 

====================================
	


====================================

====================================

====================================

====================================

 	  Quote:

image0.jpeg

Description:

Filesize:

72.76 KB

Viewed:

5951 Time(s)

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Thu May 13, 2021 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Just to expand the conversation and possibly take a lateral approach:



Most people assume you must have a heat exchanger (coolant radiator and oil coolers) located at the front of the cowling, however I have seen several set ups (not Europa) where the heat exchangers are located in non traditional positions, such as  above the engine, even in the warm exit air about to depart the cowling.



The message; dont assume as far forward as possible, is the only location.

_________________
46

spcialeffects

Joined: 29 Aug 2012
Posts: 306
Location: Kent

Posted: Fri May 14, 2021 2:18 am Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

The repositioning of the oil rad is called the tropical chin mod, here’s the link for the UK LAA Mod



http://www.lightaircraftassociation.co.uk/engineering/Standard%20Mods/11362%20Chin.pdf



Hope this helps

budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Sat May 15, 2021 5:42 am Post subject: Larger oil cooler - Classic

My two cents.

My original solution was to install the original oil cooler under the spinner without a chin scoop.  

The client made no attempt to duct out the bottom.  In a test it was fine so he flew like that for years until selling the plane.  

It worked better than behind the glycol cooler.  The LAA mod is better as it allows for more room under the muffler for proper ducting.



In "Cooling 102" for the Jabiru, I show a duct arrangement, I've had excellent results making the climb oil temps behave.  A bit cool on cruise but 180 F in summer at 7500 feet is not unacceptable.  It runs too cool in the winter without a plate on the front or better yet a cowl flap to control oil temp.  Same idea can work in the Classic, but it is tight depending on your muffler arrangement.  The same technique is used in the LAA mod for the inlet.



Another thought:

Creighton Smith (80 HP Classic)  (crouton(at)well.com) uses a Lenovo glycol to oil cooler.  He recommends the larger one.  It plumbs into the glycol cooler 1 inch hose and oil lines and lies on the top of the engine in his Classic Mono.  Not very heavy either.  No cowl cutting.

Oil and glycol temps run very similar and warm up is faster.  On the hottest days, he will cruise climb at 90 Kts for ideal temps in the climb during summer.  At high altitude cruise conditions, everything is steady about 200 ish Fahrenheit .

His cowl exit is wider than usual to get better cooling in the Key West Florida summers.  He cut off the third leg of the original Classic muffler and put on a single pipe exit to reduce back pressure on his 80 HP Rotax.  

Winter is the hard nut to crack in aircraft.  His was no different.  He uses tape to block his gills on the top cowl, tape across the radiators, and an in-flight adjustable plate across the cowl exit to block his air exit to try to keep it warm enough when temps are below freezing on start up and terribly cold at altitude when he is flying in Canada.  You may wish to talk to him and get real data not just vague numbers.



Talk to your inspector and make sure your country rules allow modifications.  Talk to real users who have tried to solve the same issues.  If you are in a hot climate, or are only a summer flier it makes a difference on what approach you take.



Best Regards,

Bud Yerly



--

michalm

Joined: 11 May 2021
Posts: 2

Posted: Sun May 16, 2021 11:48 pm Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Tim, your modification looks interesting and not very intrusive. Thanks for the photo.



Bud, thank you for your detailed comments.

Area-51

Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 391

Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 1:52 am Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

I purchased a Classic recently here in Australia; it gets hot here in summer... really hot... the previous owner was experiencing higher than comfortable oil temperatures with the 912UL; especially while waiting for traffic during taxi and climb out; so he fitted an additional inline cooler off a 2001 BMW/Mercedes and mounted it to the firewall... short story, it worked, and was a simple solution with ample room and airflow to provide results... just ensure the additional oil lines are sufficiently protected from exhaust headers and muffler heat.

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 3:54 am Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Hi Area-51 - As I said, the location of heat exchange units, need not be in the oh so conventional, forward location. 



My last aircraft had the oil cooler mounted, at a right angle, low on the firewall, in the exit air from cowling - worked very well.



Did you purchase 19-4293?

_________________
46

Area-51

Joined: 03 May 2021
Posts: 391

Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Hi Griffo, yes, now custodian of John Baker’s build and undertaking some improvements, starting with Mod77... there will be more improvements which I will post once they’re proven.

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Tue May 18, 2021 4:27 pm Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

Very far from being knowledgeable on Mod 77 (Europa in general) - just had a quick read through Mod 77- does not appear to be applicable to the Europa Classic - your aircraft?

_________________
46

Griffo

Joined: 18 Mar 2021
Posts: 70
Location: The Oaks, NSW, Australia

Posted: Wed May 19, 2021 3:42 am Post subject: Re: Larger oil cooler - Classic

My apologies Area 51 - it seems that if your Europa Classic has already had the  the Mod 43 tail wheel upgrade, your aircraft may indeed benefit from Mod 77

_________________
46

Display posts from previous:

	Matronics Email Lists Forum Index -> Europa-List	All times are GMT - 8 Hours
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum