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bill mcclellan

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 43

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:14 pm Post subject: Mod 53

Has anyone installed Mod 53 the (Long Range Tank) and used it successfully with the syphon method?

stabelvej9(at)gmail.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Sep 28, 2021 10:55 pm Post subject: Mod 53

Yes.Did that back in 2008, and have used it severalÂ times every year.Â 

Last time I used it was when I flew to Sewel four weeks ago - 500 miles acrossÂ The North Sea .....Â  Â System works fine becauseÂ I am still aliveÂ Â ðŸ˜Ž

Regards

Gert

Mono, 914, Woodcomp

Den ons. 29. sep. 2021 kl. 03.16 skrev William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>

 

 Has anyone installed Mod 53 the (Long Range Tank) and used it successfully with the syphon method?

 

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:46 am Post subject: Mod 53

I fitted it on my plane and used it on various long distant trips including the Dawn to dusk Challenge I did with my son (newly diagnosed with MND/ALS ) back in 2010, where we visited all 119 islands named on the UK 1/2 mill charts and covered  a bit over 1700nm in a day at speed with 3 stops. Worked perfectly. 

David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 

 

On 2021-09-29 02:13, William McClellan wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>Has anyone installed Mod 53 the (Long Range Tank) and used it successfully with thesp;        - The Europa-List Email tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank" rel="noopsp;          - MATRONICS ics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://forums.matronsp;            .com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://wiki.matronicssp;         - List Contributio=                         &np;--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

brian.davies44(at)gmail.c
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 2:06 am Post subject: Mod 53

For UK owners, I am not sure the LAA ever approved the use of the Mod 53 Long Range Tank Mod.Â  Francis had some issue with it that I have forgotten.Â  It is not listed as an approved manufacturer mod in the current TADS.Â  I still have a brand new/unused tank - open to offers!



Brian Davies

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:49 AM <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   

I fitted it on my plane and used it on various long distant trips including the Dawn to dusk Challenge I did with my son (newly diagnosed with MND/ALS ) back in 2010, where we visited all 119 islands named on the UK 1/2 mill charts and covered Â a bit over 1700nm in a day at speed with 3 stops. Worked perfectly. 

David Joyce, GXSDJ Â 

 



 

On 2021-09-29 02:13, William McClellan wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>



Has anyone installed Mod 53 the (Long Range Tank) and used it successfully with thesp;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â - The Europa-List Email tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank" rel="noopsp;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â - MATRONICS ics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://forums.matronsp;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â .com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://wiki.matronicssp;Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â - List Contributio= Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â Â &np;--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:04 am Post subject: Mod 53

William,



I have a long range tank but I have never used the syphon method because 

I am unable to understand how all the fuel in the long range tank can be 

used without emptying one side of the main tank too.



In Australia, I mainly find the extra fuel capacity very handy for out 

and return flights where each leg is over 2 hrs and fuel is not readily 

available like in other countries.



In one Europa I have, the LR tank plumbs into the existing fuel system 

and the fuel can be transferred in flight after about 1.5 hrs by means 

of a fuel pump under the baggage bay area making every litre available 

from that tank while there is still plenty of fuel in the main tank.



In my other Europa, I don't have the same plumbing so I carry a spare 

fuel pump with a hose and a piece of aluminium pipe.Â  The aluminium pipe 

is inserted into the LR tank and the pump plugs into a power outlet 

socket and decants the fuel into the main tank via the normal filler 

neck.Â  On an out and return flight as just mentioned or a long one way 

flight, I transfer the fuel either at the destination or a convenient 

landing spot while we enjoy a cuppa and a sandwich and/or carry out 

other functions required after being in the air for a considerable 

period of time.



It works well and I am very pleased I have it.



Best regards

Kingsley in Oz

wdaniell.longport(at)gmai
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:18 am Post subject: Mod 53

I have a turtlepacÂ bladder with a facet pump which connects to the breather fitting.

[img]cid:ii_ku5h44tf0[/img]



William Daniell



LONGPORT



+1 786 878 0246

On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 8:07 AM Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		  --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>

 

 William,

 

 I have a long range tank but I have never used the syphon method because 

 I am unable to understand how all the fuel in the long range tank can be 

 used without emptying one side of the main tank too.

 

 In Australia, I mainly find the extra fuel capacity very handy for out 

 and return flights where each leg is over 2 hrs and fuel is not readily 

 available like in other countries.

 

 In one Europa I have, the LR tank plumbs into the existing fuel system 

 and the fuel can be transferred in flight after about 1.5 hrs by means 

 of a fuel pump under the baggage bay area making every litre available 

 from that tank while there is still plenty of fuel in the main tank.

 

 In my other Europa, I don't have the same plumbing so I carry a spare 

 fuel pump with a hose and a piece of aluminium pipe.Â  The aluminium pipe 

 is inserted into the LR tank and the pump plugs into a power outlet 

 socket and decants the fuel into the main tank via the normal filler 

 neck.Â  On an out and return flight as just mentioned or a long one way 

 flight, I transfer the fuel either at the destination or a convenient 

 landing spot while we enjoy a cuppa and a sandwich and/or carry out 

 other functions required after being in the air for a considerable 

 period of time.

 

 It works well and I am very pleased I have it.

 

 Best regards

 Kingsley in Oz

 

 

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  FORUMS -

 eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com

 ===========

 WIKI -

 errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com

 ===========

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 Â  Â  Â  Â  Â  -Matt Dralle, List Admin.

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:18 am Post subject: Mod 53

Kingsley, the syphon system means that the level in the long range tank remains the same as that in the main tank, and both LR tank and main tank will run dry at the same time, leaving you with some 10 litres in the reserve side. 

     Otherwise very much agree with your view of how useful it is in day trips out & return, allowing you to avoid having to refuel somewhere where they only have Avgas   

     David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 

 

On 2021-09-29 13:03, Kingsley Hurst wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>William,I have a long range tank but I have never used the syphon method because I am unable to understand how all the fuel in the long range tank can be used without emptying one side of the main tank too.In Australia, I mainly find the extra fuel capacity very handy for out and return flights where each leg is over 2 hrs and fuel is not readily available like in other countries.In one Europa I have, the LR tank plumbs into the existing fuel system and the fuel can be transferred in flight after about 1.5 hrs by means of a fuel pump under the baggage bay area making every litre available from that tank while there is still plenty of fuel in the main tank.In my other Europa, I don't have the same plumbing so I carry a spare fuel pump with a hose and a piece of aluminium pipe.  The aluminium pipe is inserted into the LR tank and the pump plugs into a power outlet socket and decants the fuel into the main tank via the normal filler neck.  On an out and return flight as just mentioned or a long one way flight, I transfer the fuel either at the destination or a convenient landing spot while we enjoy a cuppa and a sandwich and/or carry out other functions required after being in the air for a considerable period of time.It works well and I am very pleased I have it.Best regardsKingsley in Ozbsp;      - The Europa-List Em= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator the many List utilities such as List&nbnbsp;Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,& Photoshare, and much much more:http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-Listhttp://forums.matronics.comfo to the Matronics Email List Wiki!http://www.matronics.com/contribution

Duncan McFadyean

Joined: 18 Jan 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:11 am Post subject: Mod 53

<<Francis had some issue with it that I have forgotten.>>   

The issue was that there was nothing to prevent the tank being refilled while it was still inside the a/c. I think David agreed a long connecting spout so that the fuel nozzle could be outside during refuelling. David?   



   

Duncan McF.    	  Quote: 	
		      On 29 September 2021 at 11:06 Brian Davies <brian.davies44(at)gmail.com> wrote:     

     

         For UK owners, I am not sure the LAA ever approved the use of the Mod 53 Long Range Tank Mod.  Francis had some issue with it that I have forgotten.  It is not listed as an approved manufacturer mod in the current TADS.  I still have a brand new/unused tank - open to offers!           

     

           Brian Davies     

    

    

               On Wed, Sep 29, 2021 at 10:49 AM <davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk)> wrote:       

     

      	  Quote: 	
		               

I fitted it on my plane and used it on various long distant trips including the Dawn to dusk Challenge I did with my son (newly diagnosed with MND/ALS ) back in 2010, where we visited all 119 islands named on the UK 1/2 mill charts and covered  a bit over 1700nm in a day at speed with 3 stops. Worked perfectly.       

David Joyce, GXSDJ        



       

On 2021-09-29 02:13, William McClellan wrote:        	  Quote: 	
		                   --> Europa-List message posted by: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>          

          

Has anyone installed Mod 53 the (Long Range Tank) and used it successfully with thesp;        - The Europa-List Email tp://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List" target="_blank" rel="noopsp;          - MATRONICS ics.com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://forums.matronsp;            .com" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer">http://wiki.matronicssp;         - List Contributio=                         &np;--> http://www.matronics.com/contribution

bill mcclellan

Joined: 28 Jan 2010
Posts: 43

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:21 pm Post subject: Mod 53

Thx for the replies.Â  The question I have is that a significant tank level differential needs to be present to syphon.Â  It would seem that one would not be able to get all the fuel out of the Long Range tank as the fuel level become nearly the same.Â  Also the fuel flow would be very slow as the levels get closer to the same.Â  Does this prove to be the case?

Â 

Bill McClellan

Europa 164XS

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 1:29 pm Post subject: Mod 53

Thank you David.  You have confirmed exactly what I thought ....... one side of the main tank has to be run dry to empty the LR tank.  That is exactly what I donâ€™t like about the syphon idea. 



I have never doubted it works but personally I like to have more than 8 or 10 litres in the main tank when the LR tank is empty. 

Cheers

Kingsley



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 29 Sep 2021, at 11:26 pm, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk wrote:



ï»¿ 

Kingsley, the syphon system means that the level in the long range tank remains the same as that in the main tank, and both LR tank and main tank will run dry at the same time, leaving you with some 10 litres in the reserve side. 

     Otherwise very much agree with your view of how useful it is in day trips out & return, allowing you to avoid having to refuel somewhere where they only have Avgas   

     David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 



 

On 2021-09-29 13:03, Kingsley Hurst wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>



William,



I have a long range tank but I have never used the syphon method because I am unable to understand how all the fuel in the long range tank can be used without emptying one side of the main tank too.



In Australia, I mainly find the extra fuel capacity very handy for out and return flights where each leg is over 2 hrs and fuel is not readily available like in other countries.



In one Europa I have, the LR tank plumbs into the existing fuel system and the fuel can be transferred in flight after about 1.5 hrs by means of a fuel pump under the baggage bay area making every litre available from that tank while there is still plenty of fuel in the main tank.



In my other Europa, I don't have the same plumbing so I carry a spare fuel pump with a hose and a piece of aluminium pipe.  The aluminium pipe is inserted into the LR tank and the pump plugs into a power outlet socket and decants the fuel into the main tank via the normal filler neck.  On an out and return flight as just mentioned or a long one way flight, I transfer the fuel either at the destination or a convenient landing spot while we enjoy a cuppa and a sandwich and/or carry out other functions required after being in the air for a considerable period of time.



It works well and I am very pleased I have it.



Best regards

Kingsley in Oz



bsp;      - The Europa-List Em= Use the Matronics List Features Navigator the many List utilities such as List&nbnbsp;Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse,& Photoshare, and much much more:

http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?Europa-List



http://forums.matronics.com

fo to the Matronics Email List Wiki!http://wiki.matronics.com

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budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 286
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 6:37 pm Post subject: Mod 53

Just my two cents. 

  

Many have considered an idea a couple of us had and implemented for the Europa  Aux Tank. 

The Europa Aux tank install is standard, but the bulb and siphon is dropped in favor of a pump in my shop normally.  But not all. 

We felt that impatiently waiting for the fuel in both the reserve side and aux  tank to lower simultaneously was not for us Type A types.   

  

Erich Trombley and Richard Kundle used a Piersburg pump so theyâ€™d have a spare to transfer the fuel. 

Others simply used a Facet pump similar to the 912 pump.   

Iâ€™ve put a power source in the pax headrest and a hand switch (like a remote  starter switch) to hold.  I normally used a cigarette lighter fixture in the headrest and the switch plugged in.  The Facet pumps about 30GPH or Â½ a US gallon in 30 seconds.  I have had bad experiences with Aux tanks that have panel mounted fuel switches as once the main is full and you forgot the switch was on, the remaining fuel still in the aux tank will overfill the main tank and vent overboard.  So, the fuel switch needed some sort of stop.  Installing a fuel shutoff switch in the tank wasnâ€™t a fun time I wanted to commit to.  Timers work OK but again, arenâ€™t full proof.  The hand switch was irritating enough to remember it was on and was cheap, easy to use and easy to remove when not needed. 

  

Flight technique: 

                Takeoff and climb, level off and cruise until the fuel quantity drops to about the 10 gallons remaining line, then turn on the pump and transfer the gas for about 5 minutes or 2.5 gallons. Good in-flight test for checking transfer and planning.   

Cruise a while longer and pump some more.  (With a sight gauge I prefer my clients to burn down until the sight gauge is down to the arm rest, then squeeze the trigger for a while to transfer the rest. 

  

Another technique is to change out the fuel selector.  Andair has a nice 4 way valve (Left,Right,Aux, Off).  Andy will re-label it Off-Main-Reserve-Aux.  Plumb the Aux tank into the selector.   Consider a small Facet pump to reduce the suction needed of the 914 or 912 pumps.  Install a marine style fuel gauge in the aux tank if you want to monitor the fuel transferred. 

Flight Technique: 

                Takeoff, climb, level off. 

                Turn on the Aux fuel tank pump to prime the system.  The bulb may work also to prime the aux to the selector. 

                Engine Aux pump to on.  (This helps ensure that there is sufficient draw for the fuel transfer.) 

                Fuel Selector to Aux. 

                Monitor fuel level and some use clear fuel line to continue to monitor the fuel transfer. 

                Turn off the Aux pump as the suction should keep a good fuel draw. 

  

Last type of tank was a Turtle fuel pack in the baggage bay or pax seat.  Again, plumb it into either a 4 way fuel valve, or plumb it into your main tank via the vent as you would the Europa Aux tank. 

  

Pax seat is a good place to put a nice 10 gallon or so tank.  Put in tie downs for sure.  I always liked the rectangular racing type 10 gallon type and modify the clips on the seat belt bolts and add a couple of points to the seat.  Hook into the main tank or your new fuel selector and use a fuel pump as siphon from a lower seat position wonâ€™t work quickly enough. 

  

Recompute your weight and balance for loading. The seat tank is best for CG  if travelling with baggage. 

  

Just some ideas we have made happen over the years. 

  

Bud Yerly 

  

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst

 Sent: Wednesday, September 29,  2021 5:29 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 53 

 

 

  

Thank you David.  You have confirmed exactly what I thought ....... one side of the main tank has to be run dry to empty the LR tank.  That is exactly what I donâ€™t like about the syphon idea.   

  

  

I have never doubted it works but personally I like to have more than 8 or 10 litres in the main tank when the LR tank is empty.   

  

  

Cheers 

  

Kingsley  

Sent from my iPhone 

  

 <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  	  Quote: 	
		   

On 29 Sep 2021, at 11:26 pm, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:   

ï»¿  

Kingsley, the syphon system means that the level in the long range tank remains the same as that in the main tank, and both LR tank and main tank will run dry at the same time, leaving you with some 10 litres in the reserve side. 

     Otherwise very much agree with your view of how useful it is in day trips out & return, allowing you to avoid having to refuel somewhere where they only have Avgas   

     David Joyce, GXSDJ  

  

 

  

On 2021-09-29 13:03, Kingsley Hurst wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		    

--> Europa-List message posted by: Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)>

 

 William,

 

 I have a long range tank but I have never used the syphon method because I am unable to understand how all the fuel in the long range tank can be used without emptying one side of the main tank too.

 

 In Australia, I mainly find the extra fuel capacity very handy for out and return flights where each leg is over 2 hrs and fuel is not readily available like in other countries.

 

 In one Europa I have, the LR tank plumbs into the existing fuel system and the fuel can be transferred in flight after about 1.5 hrs by means of a fuel pump under the baggage bay area making every litre available from that tank while there is still plenty of fuel in the main tank.

 

 In my other Europa, I don't have the same plumbing so I carry a spare fuel pump with a hose and a piece of aluminium pipe.  The aluminium pipe is inserted into the LR tank and the pump plugs into a power outlet socket and decants the fuel into the main tank via the normal filler neck.  On an out and return  flight as just mentioned or a long one way flight, I transfer the fuel either at the destination or a convenient landing spot while we enjoy a cuppa and a sandwich and/or carry out other functions required after being in the air for a considerable period of time.

 

 It works well and I am very pleased I have it.

 

 Best regards

 Kingsley in Oz

 

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davidjoyce(at)doctors.org
Guest

Posted: Thu Sep 30, 2021 9:53 am Post subject: Mod 53

Bill & Kingsley, I struggle to see what the difficulty is that you perceive. The system works precisely as if the main tank had 90 litres in it rather than 55 before it starts coughing and you turn over onto your 10 litre reserve. No hiccups, no hesitations, no need to even think about it. No issue ever in a lot of hours of using it. Naturally there is a little bit of unuseable fuel in the bottom of the LR tank (but very little) as there is of course in the bottom of both main and reserve tanks. David Joyce, GXSDJ  

 

 

On 2021-09-29 16:00, William McClellan wrote:  	  Quote: 	
		   --> Europa-List message posted by: William McClellan <wilwood(at)earthlink.net (wilwood(at)earthlink.net)>Thx for the replies.  The question I have is that a significant tank level differential needs to be present to syphon.  It would seem that one would not be able to get all the fuel out of the Long Range tank as the fuel level become nearly the same.  Also the fuel flow would be very slow as the levels get closer to the same.  Does this prove to be the case?http://www.matronics.com/Nav========================http://www.matronic====================

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Fri Oct 01, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Mod 53

David,

     

     Rest assured I have no difficulty with the syphon system.Â  I have     already clearly stated that I never doubted the system would work     and it does work.Â  I have also stated what I don't like about it.

     

     As with a myriad of things in life, at the end of the day, we     exercise our 'preferences.'Â Â Â  You like to use the syphon method, I     like to use a transfer pump . . . . . .Â  ALL IS GOOD.

     

     Best regards

     Kingsley

     

     

       On 30.09.21 6:37 pm, davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk (davidjoyce(at)doctors.org.uk) wrote:

     

      	  Quote: 	
		                

Bill & Kingsley, I struggle to see what the difficulty is         that you perceive. The system works precisely as if the main         tank had 90 litres in it rather than 55 before it starts         coughing and you turn over onto your 10 litre reserve. No         hiccups, no hesitations, no need to even think about it. No         issue ever in a lot of hours of using it. Naturally there is a         little bit of unuseable fuel in the bottom of the LR tank (but         very little) as there is of course in the bottom of both main         and reserve tanks. David Joyce, GXSDJ       Â

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