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kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

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johnbowman

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 6
Location: baton rouge la

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 8:57 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

dear "wobblin" in ohio, bro "azdave"... & to all who've responded with such verve, wit, & helpful insight.  that's exactly what i was hoping to learn... the real skinny on -- "to derig or not to derig" . sorry, but i prefer the mother tongue here; something a lil unnerving about the word "folding" in this context. know what i mean? besides i can wear my ascot while engaged in the former; with the latter, a brs seems more appropriate....eh wot!!.  pat, i hope all this merriment & good humor have not added to ur funk.... rather, it has gotten a smile or 2 out'n u and that u'r now hard at repair, or as we coonasses do when making delicate adjustments to recalcitrant machinery, "taking ur ball peen to the thing". 

 

on a more sombre note, that having to reach around for the choke sounds like a real bummer. that's true for which engines i wonder.  was that most challenging contortion part of the singer, john denver's passing in his homebuilt (he, trying to reach a fuel handle)???  just glad u'r ok.  john bowman in baton rouge

Ralph Hoover

Joined: 09 Jan 2006
Posts: 206
Location: Central Ohio

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: Re: kolB-

"john bowman in baton rouge" and "we coonasses"! Dag nab-it son, now I nowed wear i readed that kinda-ritin! 



In 1969 I had the wonderful pleasure of visiting your fine state for a little Uncle Sam R and R. I't seems like the government saw fit to bless your fine state with a bunch of Northern boys for a stay at Fort Polk (hell hole of the U.S.A.). I was honored with new cloths, three squares, bedding, an M-1 (all the good guns 14 and 16 were goin to Nam), and clean socks and boots. I spent many a day and night in the mess hall runnin the buffer machine and aligning salt and pepper shakers on the tables, for some unknown reason.



Fort Polk was closed after WW-II and it wasn't quite up to snuff when they reopened it for us new boys. But they did set up  some GP medium tents about 10 clicks from the mess hall and with our back packs filled to the brim, like we were intending to go somewhere in a hurry, our D.I's quickly amassed us in formation, so to make sure there wasn't nobody a-missin and would thereby be malnourished. We then ran to breakfast and dinner each day to enjoy the 16 minutes of dining pleasure available. For our "in-field" lunch, it was served from prepackaged "K-ration", sill avaliable after Korea and WW-II. Love the cigs. and always to this day carry a pocket P-38 opener. I'm sorry, government, if your a readin this, I owe you for one I took from my mes kit. I vividly remember with great fondbess the packet of crackers that some how made it from the manufacturer, to the packager and through the militray aquision facilities and out to us in the field, still intact!



For 10 weeks plus one (hell week), I was honored to meet some of the finest human beings in the world, and they was from your fine state. As a matter of fact, between the cagins and the coonasses, I didn't have many other friends. They all had bouey knives and hated the New England boys (all of the New England states).  They said cause they talked to fast and way to funny. They considered it an insult to have to listen to them talk. Now there are probably more Northerners in your fine state than there are natives speakin like you do. 



To wrap this story up, I then left your beautiful state: sleeping in tents, running everywhere, sweating and grunting and hurting, without enough time to even think (I think they wanted it that way), and then flew (this is a web site about flying) to beautiful Fort Sam Houston, in Tex. via TTA, Trans Texas Airlines, or as we referred to them "Tree Top Airlines" where you don't need no entertainment other than watching the rivets vibrate lose and fly through the air from the wings of our poorly maintained, but under Government contract DC3's. These mighty machines filled to the brim with troops was heading to the Medical facility "on the hill" at Fort Sam. At Fort Sam, we had brand new barricks, two men to a room, air conditioned, and carpeted, with windows all around and fine Doctors teaching us new medics the wear-a-bouts of the body innards. Evenings off, weekends were ours and the PX had lots of goodies for us to spend our "over-paid" income on. I still remember every moment awake in Fort Polk, but can't recall much from Fort Sam.



I would never trade that time for any other experience in the world. I also, in the same breath would ask the good Lord to make sure I never need to experience that experience again. Anyone that served in the military knows what I am talking about. Not the service time, just the basic training.



And for them â€œspell-checkerâ€ fans, I ententionally misspelllled some of the wurds in this to pay homage to my brother in Louisiana!



Armed and dangerous, well trained and over equipped Ralph of Ohio!

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:52 pm Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

 having to reach around for the choke sounds  like a real bummer.>>

  

 Hi,

  I suppose I am just not in the groove enough  yet to do it all automatically.  I have a Jabiru fitted and the choke is  just above my right shoulder. Mag switches and starter are in front but trying  to hold the stick back, hold the throttle closed and still have ahand left to  press the starter is tricky.

 It is no doubt all a matter of knack which becomes  second nature after a doing it a few times.

 Maybe a bit more tension to hold the throttle  closed would have sufficed. We learn.

  

 They say experience is the best teacher, but like  all good teachers they are expensive

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

John B in Baton Rouge --Thanx amusing post. Calling it rig or fold doesn't change anything but may make some folk feel better --

I was told at the TNK factory that one chap 'unfolds" in 6 minutes! -- that's a goal for me.

Pat's British Stiff Upper Lip I'm sure will do him well -- I'd hate for the Kolb list to lose a winner like he --

BR is a great town, many pleasant memories for me -- including a coonass or two --

Keep the ball-peen at the ready; you never know what (or who) may show up --

Best,

Russ in CT

PS didn't you misspell "thang"?



do not archive



On Jul 26, 2006, at 12:54 PM, Jbowaaf(at)wmconnect.com (Jbowaaf(at)wmconnect.com) wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		  dear "wobblin" in ohio, bro "azdave"... & to all who've responded with such verve, wit, & helpful insight.  that's exactly what i was hoping to learn... the real skinny on -- "to derig or not to derig" . sorry, but i prefer the mother tongue here; something a lil unnerving about the word "folding" in this context. know what i mean? besides i can wear my ascot while engaged in the former; with the latter, a brs seems more appropriate....eh wot!!.  pat, i hope all this merriment & good humor have not added to ur funk.... rather, it has gotten a smile or 2 out'n u and that u'r now hard at repair, or as we coonasses do when making delicate adjustments to recalcitrant machinery, "taking ur ball peen to the thing". 

 

on a more sombre note, that having to reach around for the choke sounds like a real bummer. that's true for which engines i wonder.  was that most challenging contortion part of the singer, john denver's passing in his homebuilt (he, trying to reach a fuel handle)???  just glad u'r ok.  john bowman in baton rouge

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Wed Jul 26, 2006 5:40 pm Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Read that 'priceless'! 	  Quote: 	
		  do not archive 	


On Jul 26, 2006, at 4:42 PM, pat ladd wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		    having to reach around for the choke sounds like a real bummer.>>

  

 Hi,

  I suppose I am just not in the groove enough yet to do it all automatically.  I have a Jabiru fitted and the choke is just above my right shoulder. Mag switches and starter are in front but trying to hold the stick back, hold the throttle closed and still have ahand left to press the starter is tricky.

 It is no doubt all a matter of knack which becomes second nature after a doing it a few times.

 Maybe a bit more tension to hold the throttle closed would have sufficed. We learn.

  

 They say experience is the best teacher, but like all good teachers they are expensive

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 1:14 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Keep the ball-peen at the ready; you never know  >>

  

 Hi Russ,

  

 over here, although I have not heard the phrase for  years, thumping something into shape is called `using a Manchester  spanner`

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

NeilsenRM(at)comcast.net
Guest

Posted: Thu Jul 27, 2006 6:33 pm Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Pat

  

 Sorry to hear about your problems. Hopefully you  will get it fixed quickly and back into the air well ahead of Big  Lar.

  

 I must be missing something and I surely don't want  add to your misery but why are your trying to hold on to everything on  start up? What am I missing? The throttle should stay put unless you bump  it (I don't need to tell you that) and if it doesn't you should tighten the  friction adjustment. The stick doesn't need to be touched unless it is windy and  if you start it facing into the wind you can still let go of the stick. I would  assume you have one switch that controls the starter and mags, if not maybe you  should? The choke can be reached if you practice without turning in your  seat. I assume that with the Xtra you can reach the instrument panel while  belted in. With my MKIIIc I have to reach my ignition/starter switch with a  stick.

  

 Sorry I just don't understand and I don't know any  thing about the Jabiru.

  

 Do not archive

  

 Rick Neilsen

 Redrive VW powered MKIIIc

 Missing Oshkosh

 [quote]   ---

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 1:31 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Hi Rick

  

 <The stick doesn't need to be touched unless it  is windy and if you start it facing into the wind you can still let go of the  stick>>

  

 Sorry I dont agree with that. I was taught that in  a tail dragger you hold the stick back and the propwash holds the tail on the  ground and that seems logical.

  

 <<. I would assume you have one switch that  controls the starter and mags, if not maybe you should?>>

  

 No. I have a master switch, which isolates the  battery,  a switch for each mag, (how else do you check the mag drop?)  and a starter button. All grouped together at the bottom of the  console.

  

  <<The choke can be reached if you  practice without turning in your seat.>>

  

 Yes, it can and I will practice. I will. I will,  and I wont carry my credit card wallet in my left hip pocket.

  

 Thanks for your comments

  

 Cheers

  

 Pat

  

 do not archive

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 10:19 am Post subject: Re: kolB- Master and MAG switch(es)

Pat,



It is common in the USA to have a single switch that has the following positions.

OFF (Master Off, both mags off)

Left (master on, left mag on, right off)

Right (master on, right mag on, left off)

Both (master on, both mags on)

Start (master on, engage starter) momentary contact



On our Allegro, I was introduced to the European standard (common use) that has a Master Switch with On and Off positions and two separate Mag switches each with an on and off position and a Guard to keep from inadvertently switch them off or on. It took me a while to get used to that but I now like it much better than the American way and it is really a lot simpler and easier to diagnose wiring problems.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

pj.ladd(at)btinternet.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 12:40 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

OFF (Master Off, both mags off)

Left (master on, left mag on, right off)

Right (master on, right mag on, left off)>>



Hi Thom,

unless I am reading this wrongly you have to go through Master OFF position, 

which kills the engine, when you check left mag and then right mag. That 

can`t be right surely?



Cheers



Pat



do not archive



--

biglar

Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 457

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 2:00 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Hi Pat.   In the Cessnas I fly, from all the way counter clockwise and 

turning the key clockwise, it's Both Off, 1 off, the other off, both on, 

start.  Can't remember offhand if it's Off, Right Mag, Left Mag.....or Left 

Mag, Right Mag.                   Lar.                Do not Archive.



---

_________________
Larry Bourne
Palm Springs, CA
Building Kolb Mk IIIC
"Vamoose"

Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:47 am Post subject: Re: kolB-

Pat,



The only position in which the master is off is the first positiion (most counter clockwise) which is also the only position in which the key can be inserted or removed. And the rest of the list is in clockwise order from there, as Big Lar said. 



In my opinion its only redeeming quality is that it saves panel space and the GA certified ones are not cheap. I like the "old world" way better, certainly not for everything, but in this, for sure.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

Russ Kinne

Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Posts: 182

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 3:50 am Post subject: kolB- "WING FOLDING" (or in pat's parlance, "riggin & de--"

Pat

Switch positions were OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH. We start on LEFT (which  

has a spark retard built in), go to BOTH when she starts; for a mag- 

check switch from  BOTH to LEFT, listen; then back to BOTH. Same for  

right mag. No need to go thru OFF -- you'll blow jugs on a big engine  

that way.

Should be no need to work 3-4 controls at once when  starting!

Fair winds,

Russ



On Jul 29, 2006, at 4:40 AM, pat ladd wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		   



 OFF (Master Off, both mags off)

 Left (master on, left mag on, right off)

 Right (master on, right mag on, left off)>>



 Hi Thom,

 unless I am reading this wrongly you have to go through Master OFF  

 position, which kills the engine, when you check left mag and then  

 right mag. That can`t be right surely?



 Cheers



 Pat



 do not archive



 -- 





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Thom Riddle

Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 1597
Location: Buffalo, NY, USA (9G0)

Posted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 4:00 am Post subject: Re: kolB-

Russ,



With separate switches, there is no need to "work 3-4 controls at once when starting!". On our Allegro there are three switches. The keyed master/starter switch has three positions as follows:



OFF (master off)

ON (master on)

Start (master on, engage starter) momentary contact



Next to it are two separate mag switches, each with an ON position (up) and OFF position (down), which are guarded.



To start, flip on both mags (for Rotax 912) then start using the keyed master/start switch, just like a Cessna.



Both systems work fine. They are just different, but not in function or ease of use.

_________________
Thom Riddle
Buffalo, NY (9G0)

Don't worry about old age... it doesn't last very long.
- Anonymous

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