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bigginsking
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Location: San Diego, California
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 Posted: Sat Dec 11, 2021 11:03 pm Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Greetings,
Someone was kind enough to let me know I should post something on this forum about my new generator.
Device name: MZ-30L.
Description: 2.6 lb, 30 amp, vacuum pad driven generator for experimental aircraft running Lycoming engines.
Company: Monkworkz.
Price: $995.
Installation manual and frequently asked questions are on the website: http://monkworkz.com
A bit of commentary:
The manual is long and detailed because this device is different than anything else for this application.
It does everything I need in a single power source. I can run solely on this power source from start up to shutdown and I'm at a towered field where long taxis and ground delays are common.
I have an IFR RV-8 with dual electronic ignition and I wanted a backup power source that wasn't difficult to install, powerful enough to carry all of my typical loads, and light enough to offer a substantial weight savings over a single alternator/dual battery PC625 setup. This device checks all of those boxes for me. Onboard fuse and current shunt are bonuses on top of that.
RPM vs power output:
The manual objectively addresses this: ~900-1000 is where you will get 15 amps. But subjectively, even at 700-800 RPM I still get enough power for my plane but not 15 amps and there are periods when I'm slowing down that the battery is carrying my system. From the Sacramento Sky Ranch Manual, 2nd edition, on idle speed, pg 137: "An Idle Speed of 1100 is necessary with cold oil to create sufficient splash." Given that, 900 RPM shouldn't be a problem for anyone but you know your own airplane. For me, even doing just a lap or two around the pattern I come back with a charged battery after tower delays, and long taxis out and back.
Cooling:
It does require one more cooling duct than a traditional alternator, I have measured what the difference is in pressure delta between the top and bottom of the cylinders and it is on the order of 1.7%, and about the difference you would see from changing airspeed by 1 knot.
Field testing:
There are ten prototypes in the field. Below is a list of the types of planes, and who has them. If you know them, please feel free to contact them. Most have authorized me to put prospective buyers in contact with them, so contact me if you would like to talk with them and I'll make the connection. In three cases I did the installation myself but for the rest of these I provided the manual and they were able to install it with very few or no questions. In one case, basically all I heard back was "All good so far, no issues" (Paul Rosales).
RV-8 - Bill Judge (Primary power, alternator is backup)
Please don't ask me how long it took to develop this thing.
Tailwind - 2021 Raspet Awardee [google that] (sole means of power)
Are you sure you want to be associated with me?
Harmon Rocket - Adam Pontius (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
Flawless.
RV-4 - Paul Kessel (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
Completely good! If you want to use me as a reference for people to call I am fine with that as well!
RV-4 Dave Anders (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
I think you’ve got a winner.
RV-3 - Wheeler North (Backup, dual electronic ignition)
Don't you want me to pay for this?
RV-10 - Rich Jankowski (Backup, IFR platform)
RV10, LYC IO-540 BU DC generator performs flawlessly! Easy to install!
RV-10 - Joe Waltz (Backup, IFR platform)
Glad to report that all testing has gone well.
Lancair IVP - Bob Pastusek (LOBO founder, long time Maintenance officer, 28V version on a continental TSIO 550, backup power for an IFR platform)
N437RP, a Lancair IV-P based in Ft Worth, TX. Bob Knuckles “model Z” dual 28 volt electrical system. The alternator normally runs in “on-line standby” mode at an output voltage just less than the primary alternator. In this mode it outputs 1-2 amps continuously to aircraft systems. If the primary alternator fails or is taken off-line, the standby automatically picks up the full steady-state power requirement of 14-15 amps during daylight ops and 18-20 amps at night.
I could not be happier with it!!
RV-6 - Paul Rosales (backup power)
I can’t thank you enough for this and giving me great great great peace of mind! Rosie
Letting someone else put something in your airplane is a huge decision. All of these guys volunteered and I'm incredibly grateful for that. Big thanks to all of them. They are all still running them.
I see two use cases for the MZ-30L:
1. Primary power for a magneto ignition day VFR plane where minimum weight is a priority.
2. Backup power for planes that are dependent on electrical power whether that's dual electronic iginition or IFR.
I think that the MZ-30L can do both well in almost every case, but every application is going to vary and have compromises: Such as spending $995 vs $100 at autozone or one vs two 3/4 inch ducts that probably represent a 1% change in cooling capacity.
Please contact me if you're interested: bill(at)monkworkz.com or info(at)monkworkz.com. I want to get an understanding of each user's application before I sell them a unit and make sure that it is right for them. My website will eventually support online purchases.
Here is the boilerplate info about the unit:
Monkworkz, LLC is proud to introduce the MZ-30L(Patent Pending) for Lycoming and similar engines. A clean sheet design to aircraft power that leverages the most recent advancements in power electronics and electromechanical machinery. The MZ-30L is a 30 amp, 3 pound, vacuum pad driven generator for 14 volt electrical systems. It can be used in backup or primary power applications and is optimized for easy installation on experimental aircraft.
The MZ-30L has several features that simplify installation and add capability, including:
Self-exciting: no external phantom current needed to generate power.
Fast (~5 ms) electronic current limiting backed up with an integrated fuse.
Integrated current shunt: read current from a shunt provided with the device.
Integrated current measurement with proportional voltage output: 0-4.4 volts that scales linearly with current out for input to EFIS/EIS systems or other device.
Compact design with a compact shear coupling: Generator depth is less than 4 inches from the vacuum pad face. Diameter is less than 2.5 inches.
Intelligent integration with other power sources: in a backup power application the MZ-30L actively monitors bus voltage and comes on line ~200 ms after bus voltage drops below spec.
Remote Enable: Allows installation of pilot operated switch to enable/disable the device.
*Also available: 28 V versions, and versions for Continental engines where the vacuum pad RPM is 1.5 times the crankshaft RPM.
~15 amps available at 1000 rpm on engines where the vacuum pad RPM is 1.3 times the crankshaft RPM, 30 amps available above 1800 crank RPM
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
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Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8 |
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Ceengland
Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 5:21 am Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help you with a problem.
Get BlueMail for Android
On Dec 12, 2021, at 1:07 AM, bigginsking <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)> wrote: | Quote: | | Quote: | | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bigginsking" <bjudge(at)gmail.com>Greetings,Someone was kind enough to let me know I should post something on this forum about my new generator.Device name: MZ-30L.Description: 2.6 lb, 30 amp, vacuum pad driven generator for experimental aircraft running Lycoming engines.Company: Monkworkz.Price: $995.Installation manual and frequently asked questions are on the website: http://monkworkz.comA bit of commentary:The manual is long and detailed because this device is different than anything else for this application.It does everything I need in a single power source. I can run solely on this power source from start up to shutdown and I'm at a towered field where long taxis and ground delays are common.I have an IFR RV-8 with dual electronic ignition and I wanted a backup power source that wasn't difficult to install, powerful enough to carry all of my typical loads, and light enough to offer a substantial weight savings over a single alternator/dual battery PC625 setup. This device checks all of those boxes for me. Onboard fuse and current shunt are bonuses on top of that.RPM vs power output:The manual objectively addresses this: ~900-1000 is where you will get 15 amps. But subjectively, even at 700-800 RPM I still get enough power for my plane but not 15 amps and there are periods when I'm slowing down that the battery is carrying my system. From the Sacramento Sky Ranch Manual, 2nd edition, on idle speed, pg 137: "An Idle Speed of 1100 is necessary with cold oil to create sufficient splash." Given that, 900 RPM shouldn't be a problem for anyone but you know your own airplane. For me, even doing just a lap or two around the pattern I come back with a charged battery after tower delays, and long taxis out and back.Cooling:It does require one more cooling duct than a traditional alternator, I have measured what the difference is in pressure delta between the top and bottom of the cylinders and it is on the order of 1.7%, and about the difference you would see from changing airspeed by 1 knot.Field testing:There are ten prototypes in the field. Below is a list of the types of planes, and who has them. If you know them, please feel free to contact them. Most have authorized me to put prospective buyers in contact with them, so contact me if you would like to talk with them and I'll make the connection. In three cases I did the installation myself but for the rest of these I provided the manual and they were able to install it with very few or no questions. In one case, basically all I heard back was "All good so far, no issues" (Paul Rosales).RV-8 - Bill Judge (Primary power, alternator is backup)Please don't ask me how long it took to develop this thing.Tailwind - 2021 Raspet Awardee [google that] (sole means of power)Are you sure you want to be associated with me?Harmon Rocket - Adam Pontius (Backup, dual electronic ignition)Flawless.RV-4 - Paul Kessel (Backup, dual electronic ignition)Completely good! If you want to use me as a reference for people to call I am fine with that as well!RV-4 Dave Anders (Backup, dual electronic ignition)I think youâve got a winner.RV-3 - Wheeler North (Backup, dual electronic ignition)Don't you want me to pay for this?RV-10 - Rich Jankowski (Backup, IFR platform)RV10, LYC IO-540 BU DC generator performs flawlessly! Easy to install!RV-10 - Joe Waltz (Backup, IFR platform)Glad to report that all testing has gone well.Lancair IVP - Bob Pastusek (LOBO founder, long time Maintenance officer, 28V version on a continental TSIO 550, backup power for an IFR platform)N437RP, a Lancair IV-P based in Ft Worth, TX. Bob Knuckles âmodel Zâ dual 28 volt electrical system. The alternator normally runs in âon-line standbyâ mode at an output voltage just less than the primary alternator. In this mode it outputs 1-2 amps continuously to aircraft systems. If the primary alternator fails or is taken off-line, the standby automatically picks up the full steady-state power requirement of 14-15 amps during daylight ops and 18-20 amps at night.I could not be happier with it!!RV-6 - Paul Rosales (backup power)I canât thank you enough for this and giving me great great great peace of mind! RosieLetting someone else put something in your airplane is a huge decision. All of these guys volunteered and I'm incredibly grateful for that. Big thanks to all of them. They are all still running them.I see two use cases for the MZ-30L:1. Primary power for a magneto ignition day VFR plane where minimum weight is a priority.2. Backup power for planes that are dependent on electrical power whether that's dual electronic iginition or IFR.I think that the MZ-30L can do both well in almost every case, but every application is going to vary and have compromises: Such as spending $995 vs $100 at autozone or one vs two 3/4 inch ducts that probably represent a 1% change in cooling capacity.Please contact me if you're interested: bill(at)monkworkz.com or info(at)monkworkz.com. I want to get an understanding of each user's application before I sell them a unit and make sure that it is right for them. My website will eventually support online purchases.Here is the boilerplate info about the unit:Monkworkz, LLC is proud to introduce the MZ-30L(Patent Pending) for Lycoming and similar engines. A clean sheet design to aircraft power that leverages the most recent advancements in power electronics and electromechanical machinery. The MZ-30L is a 30 amp, 3 pound, vacuum pad driven generator for 14 volt electrical systems. It can be used in backup or primary power applications and is optimized for easy installation on experimental aircraft.The MZ-30L has several features that simplify installation and add capability, including:Self-exciting: no external phantom current needed to generate power.Fast (~5 ms) electronic current limiting backed up with an integrated fuse. Integrated current shunt: read current from a shunt provided with the device.Integrated current measurement with proportional voltage output: 0-4.4 volts that scales linearly with current out for input to EFIS/EIS systems or other device.Compact design with a compact shear coupling: Generator depth is less than 4 inches from the vacuum pad face. Diameter is less than 2.5 inches.Intelligent integration with other power sources: in a backup power application the MZ-30L actively monitors bus voltage and comes on line ~200 ms after bus voltage drops below spec.Remote Enable: Allows installation of pilot operated switch to enable/disable the device.*Also available: 28 V versions, and versions for Continental engines where the vacuum pad RPM is 1.5 times the crankshaft RPM.~15 amps available at 1000 rpm on engines where the vacuum pad RPM is 1.3 times the crankshaft RPM, 30 amps available above 1800 crank RPM--------Bill JudgeN84WJ, RV-8Read this topic online here:http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505229#505229http://www.matronics.com/Nav href="https://matronics.com/contribution">https://matronics.com/contribution |
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Charlie |
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bigginsking
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:38 am Post subject: Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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| Ceengland wrote: | | 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help you with a problem. |
Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about anything new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that postings of this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I mentioned someone from this list suggested that I post here because what I have developed is useful for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated tchotchkes here, this is something that could provide utility to the subscribers here.
| Matt Dralle wrote: | - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists. |
| | - The Matronics AeroElectric-List Email Forum - | | | Use the List Feature Navigator to browse the many List utilities available such as the Email Subscriptions page, Archive Search & Download, 7-Day Browse, Chat, FAQ, Photoshare, and much more:
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8 |
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Parky109
Joined: 30 Sep 2021
Posts: 1
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:47 am Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Well I think your product looks amazing ! I’m glad you posted it !
| Quote: | On 12 Dec 2021, at 17:40, bigginsking <bjudge(at)gmail.com> wrote:
Ceengland wrote:
> 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help you with a problem.
Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about anything new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that postings of this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I mentioned someone from this list suggested that I post here because what I have developed is useful for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated tchotchkes here, this is something that could provide utility to the subscribers here.
Matt Dralle wrote:
> - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505232#505232
|
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http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?AeroElectric-List |
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Ceengland
Joined: 11 Oct 2020
Posts: 391
Location: MS
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:13 am Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Posts by
| Quote: | List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
a typical SPAM message.
|
To be fair, your most recent previous post seems to have been about 3 1/2 years ago, and your name/email didn't look like a regular, frequently seen member.
'My new generator' sounded to me like it was a product you bought & installed on your airplane, leading up to a pirep or a request for help troubleshooting; not a product you're trying to market to the list.
The long list of testimonials read like the email version of an infomercial. You could have stated directly that you had a new product for sale that might be of interest to members, and we could get full info from your website. Two or three sentences & those interested would have gone looking, and everyone else could have hit delete.
Shame on me I suppose, for being gullible enough to read all the way to the testimonials before realizing that I was reading an ad instead of a request for help.
Charlie
On Sun, Dec 12, 2021 at 11:43 AM bigginsking <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bigginsking" <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)>
Ceengland wrote:
> 'Someone' should have mentioned that this list/forum is an advertising-free zone. I wasted 5 valuable minutes of my life thinking I might be able to help you with a problem.
Apologies, I don't know exactly how you are supposed to find out about anything new with that sort of mentality. The list guidelines also say that postings of this sort are fine. Sorry if this came off as SPAM. As I mentioned someone from this list suggested that I post here because what I have developed is useful for this forum, I'm not selling unrelated tchotchkes here, this is something that could provide utility to the subscribers here.
Matt Dralle wrote:
> - Occassional posts by vendors or individuals who are regularyly
> subscribed to a given List are considered acceptable. Posts by
> List members promoting their respective products or items for sale
> should be of a friendly, informal nature, and should not resemble
> a typical SPAM message. The List isn't about commercialism, but
> is about sharing information and knowledge. This applies to
> everyone, including those who provide products to the entire
> community. Informal presentation and moderation should be the
> operatives with respect to advertising on the Lists.
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505232#505232
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Dave Saylor
Joined: 11 Jan 2015
Posts: 209
Location: GILROY, CA
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| Posted: Sun Dec 12, 2021 8:14 pm Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Bill,
Thanks for the post about your new alternator. I appreciated it. Now if I come across an installation I have a better chance of recognizing it. These forums and Sport Aviation are about my only sources for OBAM aircraft.
Quick question that probably has very little to do with any practical aspect: Why is the magnet on the outside? I was just involved with a PM alternator that seems like the opposite of yours:
[img]cid:ii_kx45fima1[/img]
The magnet turns inside the housing. I think this one outputs about half of what you're advertising, but I don't know if that's a function of the layout or something else. The physical size is about 2/3 of yours and I think it turns about twice the speed.
Just curious,
Dave
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bigginsking
Joined: 25 Sep 2012
Posts: 27
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Mon Dec 13, 2021 11:03 pm Post subject: Re: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Hi Dave,
The magnets are on the outside because you get more voltage out of that configuration vs internal rotating magnets. I don't honestly know the physics but that's how it works out.
Bill
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Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8 |
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henry(at)pericynthion.org
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:22 am Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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Nice design, Bill - thanks for sharing the info and making a neat new product available!
Magnets on the outside puts them at a greater radius from the shaft, and therefore they move at a higher linear speed for a given RPM, compared to an arrangement with them inside the stator. Faster motion of magnets past the coils gives more volts - Faraday's law.
Henry
On Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 23:16 bigginsking <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bigginsking" <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)>
Hi Dave,
The magnets are on the outside because you get more voltage out of that configuration vs internal rotating magnets. I don't honestly know the physics but that's how it works out.
Bill
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505247#505247
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errer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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b Site -
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
===========
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alec(at)alecmyers.com
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2021 4:34 am Post subject: Monkworkz MZ-30L, 2.6 lb 30 amp generator |
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EMF would depend on the number of field lines cut by the coils per second, not any linear speed; whether the magnets are on the inside or the outside the field lines cut per revolution would be the same.
Maybe there’s room for bigger magnets on the outside? But then there’s room for fewer coil turns.
Sent from my iPhone
| Quote: | On Dec 14, 2021, at 04:22, Henry Hallam <henry(at)pericynthion.org> wrote:
Nice design, Bill - thanks for sharing the info and making a neat new product available!
Magnets on the outside puts them at a greater radius from the shaft, and therefore they move at a higher linear speed for a given RPM, compared to an arrangement with them inside the stator. Faster motion of magnets past the coils gives more volts - Faraday's law.
Henry
On Mon, Dec 13, 2021, 23:16 bigginsking <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "bigginsking" <bjudge(at)gmail.com (bjudge(at)gmail.com)>
Hi Dave,
The magnets are on the outside because you get more voltage out of that configuration vs internal rotating magnets. I don't honestly know the physics but that's how it works out.
Bill
--------
Bill Judge
N84WJ, RV-8
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505247#505247
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="noreferrer noreferrer noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
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