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Trim setting question

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peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 11:41 am Post subject: Trim setting question

Curious:Â  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

Is this what other folks are seeing?

Cheers and thx,

PeteZ

C-GNPZ classic 912S

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:12 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Hi Pete,I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!

Cheers,

Tim



Sent from my iPadTim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street, 

Fendalton, 

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz 

021 0640221

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:



ï»¿Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

Is this what other folks are seeing?

Cheers and thx,

PeteZ

C-GNPZ classic 912S

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:27 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone 

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that oddâ€¦.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

PeteZ



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:



ï»¿Hi Pete,I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!

Cheers,

Tim



Sent from my iPadTim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street, 

Fendalton, 

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz 

021 0640221

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:



ï»¿Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

Is this what other folks are seeing?

Cheers and thx,

PeteZ

C-GNPZ classic 912S

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 1:48 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Yes agree. I only have an issue under a certain loading combination, not common. But you are correct. I only use forward trim, never trimming back behind zero mark.



Sent from my iPadTim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street, 

Fendalton, 

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz 

021 0640221

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 26/12/2021, at 10:34 AM, Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:



ï»¿Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone 

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that oddâ€¦.

Cheers and Merry Christmas!

PeteZ



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz> wrote:



ï»¿Hi Pete,I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners!

Cheers,

Tim



Sent from my iPadTim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street, 

Fendalton, 

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz 

021 0640221

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:



ï»¿Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

Is this what other folks are seeing?

Cheers and thx,

PeteZ

C-GNPZ classic 912S

budyerly@msn.com

Joined: 05 Oct 2019
Posts: 285
Location: Florida USA

Posted: Sat Dec 25, 2021 5:36 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

As Tim said. 

Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.  From takeoff to cruise it is all down trim. 

  

Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as the  incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed as speed increasesâ€¦ 

  

Happy Holidays, 

Bud Yerly 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com  <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com> On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com

 Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim setting question 

 

 

   

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone  

  

  

  

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab  is not lined up with the fuse moulding in flight. I find that oddâ€¦. 

  

  

  

Cheers and Merry Christmas! 

  

PeteZ 

  

 <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  	  Quote: 	
		   

On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:   

ï»¿Hi Pete,  

I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners! 

  

Cheers, 

  

Tim  

Sent from my iPad  

Tim Ward 

  

12 Waiwetu Street,  

  

Fendalton,  

  

Christchurch, 8052 

  

New Zealand. 

  

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)  

  

021 0640221 

 

  

 <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]> <![endif]>  	  Quote: 	
		   

On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:   

ï»¿   

Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose  up trim). 

  

  

  

Is this what other folks are seeing? 

  

  

  

Cheers and thx, 

  

PeteZ 

  

C-GNPZ classic 912S

Pete jeffers

Joined: 13 May 2021
Posts: 2

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:02 am Post subject: Trim setting question

Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim settings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences between various aeroplanes.Pete J

On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

 

  

 

 Get Outlook for Android

  

 

  From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Trim setting question

 

 

      

As Tim said. 

Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.Â  From takeoff to cruise it is all down trim. 

Â  

Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed as speed increasesâ€¦ 

Â  

Happy Holidays, 

Bud Yerly 

Â    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Trim setting question 

 

 

Â   

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone  

  

Â  

  

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding  in flight. I find that oddâ€¦. 

  

Â  

  

Cheers and Merry Christmas! 

  

PeteZ 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:   

ï»¿Hi Pete,  

I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners! 

  

Cheers, 

  

Tim  

Sent from my iPad  

Tim Ward 

  

12 Waiwetu Street,Â  

  

Fendalton,Â  

  

Christchurch, 8052 

  

New Zealand. 

  

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)Â  

  

021 0640221 

 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:   

ï»¿   

Curious:Â  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim). 

  

Â  

  

Is this what other folks are seeing? 

  

Â  

  

Cheers and thx, 

  

PeteZ 

  

C-GNPZ classic 912S

h&jeuropa

Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 645

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Trim setting question

Interesting this has come up.  Our trim has always been near the bottom of the indicator in cruise.  I assumed it was because we usually traveled with Jethro, a 50 pound dog in the rear.  But after Jethro died, we adopted Finn who is only 20 pounds.  The trim still is near the bottom which confirms the operation is correct. 



I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is well. The change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.



I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further than the indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is at the bottom.



I use the trim indicator a lot.  The "0" or middle position trims the plane for about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration.  During landing I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position which results in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended.  With the speed set, I control rate of descent with power.  It works nicely.



Jim & Heather

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 2:01 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Sounds familar, tho with full power and your trim setting, I've got alot of push required on climbout- not good (to me). I take off with the indicator pretty well half way down the down side for a more balanced stick, which results in a forward trimmed stick on engine failure, which i prefer.



Cheers!

PeteZ



 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 27, 2021, at 4:11 PM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 

 Interesting this has come up.  Our trim has always been near the bottom of the indicator in cruise.  I assumed it was because we usually traveled with Jethro, a 50 pound dog in the rear.  But after Jethro died, we adopted Finn who is only 20 pounds.  The trim still is near the bottom which confirms the operation is correct. 

 

 I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is well. The change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.

 

 I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further than the indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is at the bottom.

 

 I use the trim indicator a lot.  The "0" or middle position trims the plane for about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration.  During landing I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position which results in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended.  With the speed set, I control rate of descent with power.  It works nicely.

 

 Jim & Heather

 

 

 

 

 Read this topic online here:

 

 http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505397#505397

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 3:10 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Pete,Agree, I set three units down for take-off.

Tim



Sent from my iPadTim Ward

12 Waiwetu Street, 

Fendalton, 

Christchurch, 8052

New Zealand.

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz 

021 0640221

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 28/12/2021, at 11:08 AM, Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:



ï»¿--> Europa-List message posted by: Pete <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com>



Sounds familar, tho with full power and your trim setting, I've got alot of push required on climbout- not good (to me). I take off with the indicator pretty well half way down the down side for a more balanced stick, which results in a forward trimmed stick on engine failure, which i prefer.



Cheers!

PeteZ



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 27, 2021, at 4:11 PM, h&amp;jeuropa <butcher43(at)att.net> wrote:



ï»¿--> Europa-List message posted by: "h&amp;jeuropa" <butcher43(at)att.net>



Interesting this has come up.  Our trim has always been near the bottom of the indicator in cruise.  I assumed it was because we usually traveled with Jethro, a 50 pound dog in the rear.  But after Jethro died, we adopted Finn who is only 20 pounds.  The trim still is near the bottom which confirms the operation is correct. 



I verified the tailplane trim tab relationship like Pete Z and all is well. The change in CG between 50# and 20# isn't much so it all makes sense.



I haven't verified, but I understand that the trim motor runs further than the indicator, ie you have more down trim available after the indicator is at the bottom.



I use the trim indicator a lot.  The "0" or middle position trims the plane for about 65 kts with gear extended. That is the takeoff configuration.  During landing I set the trim to one or two lines above the "0" position which results in about 55 -60 kts with gear extended.  With the speed set, I control rate of descent with power.  It works nicely.



Jim & Heather





Read this topic online here:



http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=505397#505397



	


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kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:46 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Pete,



To answer your question ....... yes. 



The thing that intrigues me is not the fact that nose down trim is needed because that is quite normal but the fact that it needs so much nose down trim. 



A few years ago I asked the question on this list ........ why is the trim/antiservo tab always displaced so far upwards in cruise (nose down)?  I asked this because I observed it in many photos of Europas taken in flight on an angle from which the trim tab could be observed. 



It must cause considerable drag I would think!



Cheers

Kingsley in Oz



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		   On 27 Dec 2021, at 3:48 am, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:

 

 ï»¿

 Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

 

 Is this what other folks are seeing?

 

 Cheers and thx,

 PeteZ

 C-GNPZ classic 912S

kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 5:52 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Hello Pete,



Iâ€™m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be set with a fully flying tailplane.  Is there an explanation please?

Best regards

Your antipodean cousin

Kingsley



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02(at)gmail.com> wrote:



ï»¿Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim settings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences between various aeroplanes.Pete J

On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

 

  

 

 Get Outlook for Android

  

 

  From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Trim setting question

 

 

      

As Tim said. 

Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.  From takeoff to cruise it is all down trim. 

  

Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed as speed increasesâ€¦ 

  

Happy Holidays, 

Bud Yerly 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Trim setting question 

 

 

   

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone  

  

  

  

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding  in flight. I find that oddâ€¦. 

  

  

  

Cheers and Merry Christmas! 

  

PeteZ 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:   

ï»¿Hi Pete,  

I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners! 

  

Cheers, 

  

Tim  

Sent from my iPad  

Tim Ward 

  

12 Waiwetu Street,  

  

Fendalton,  

  

Christchurch, 8052 

  

New Zealand. 

  

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)  

  

021 0640221 

 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:   

ï»¿   

Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim). 

  

  

  

Is this what other folks are seeing? 

  

  

  

Cheers and thx, 

  

PeteZ 

  

C-GNPZ classic 912S

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Mon Dec 27, 2021 6:01 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Indeed I remember that question back in the day! 

Now i understand why 

Thx!

PeteZ

 	  Quote: 	
		   On Dec 27, 2021, at 8:54 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au> wrote:

 ï»¿

 Pete,

 To answer your question ....... yes. 

 The thing that intrigues me is not the fact that nose down trim is needed because that is quite normal but the fact that it needs so much nose down trim. 

 A few years ago I asked the question on this list ........ why is the trim/antiservo tab always displaced so far upwards in cruise (nose down)?  I asked this because I observed it in many photos of Europas taken in flight on an angle from which the trim tab could be observed. 

 It must cause considerable drag I would think!

 Cheers

 Kingsley in Oz

 Sent from my iPhone

> On 27 Dec 2021, at 3:48 am, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com> wrote:

> 

> ï»¿

> Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim).

> 

> Is this what other folks are seeing?

> 

> Cheers and thx,

> PeteZ

> C-GNPZ classic 912S

rogersheridan(at)mac.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:03 am Post subject: Trim setting question

Hi Kingsley,

I am not an aerodynamicist, so this is my uninformed explanation why the trim tab deflection is desirable:



1.	Nose down trim is commanding the tailplane to provide lift, this slightly reduces required wing lift along with wing induced drag, so itâ€™s a good thing.



2.	If you move the CG forward and tailplane lift required is reduced, the wing induced drag (to maintain level flight) will consequently increase - not desirable.



3.	To produce the desired tailplane lift without tab deflection would require an internal trim spring or reduced counterweight and now youâ€™re the test pilot!



Interestingly some Jodel models have all flying tails that are only partially mass balanced, so reducing that lump of steel might work, but I wonâ€™t be trying it.



Cheers,



Roger

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 28 Dec 2021, at 01:52, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au (kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au)> wrote:

Hello Pete,

Iâ€™m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be set with a fully flying tailplane.  Is there an explanation please?



Best regards

Your antipodean cousin

KingsleySent from my iPhone

 	  Quote: 	
		  On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02(at)gmail.com (pjeffers02(at)gmail.com)> wrote:ï»¿Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim settings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences between various aeroplanes.Pete J



On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:

 	  Quote: 	
		         

   

 Get Outlook for Android

   

  From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: RE: Trim setting question 

      

As Tim said.

Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.  From takeoff to cruise it is all down trim. 



Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed as speed increasesâ€¦ 



Happy Holidays,

Bud Yerly 

  

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Pete Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com) Subject: Re: Trim setting question 

 

 

 

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone  

  

 

 

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding  in flight. I find that oddâ€¦. 

  

 

 

Cheers and Merry Christmas! 

 

PeteZ 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		  

On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:  

ï»¿Hi Pete, 

I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners! 

 

Cheers, 

 

Tim 

Sent from my iPad 

Tim Ward 

 

12 Waiwetu Street,  

 

Fendalton,  

 

Christchurch, 8052 

 

New Zealand. 

 

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)  

 

021 0640221 

 

 

    	  Quote: 	
		  

On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:  

ï»¿  

Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim). 

  

 

 

Is this what other folks are seeing? 

  

 

 

Cheers and thx, 

 

PeteZ 

 

C-GNPZ classic 912S

peterz(at)zutrasoft.com
Guest

Posted: Tue Dec 28, 2021 6:34 pm Post subject: Trim setting question

Hi Kingsley,

You are correct, I guess it canâ€™t  .  I was just referring to the fuse moulding (which fairs into the tailplane) appears to me to be at a slightly incorrect angle (for cruise)?

Cheers,

PeteZ



 	  Quote: 	
		  On Dec 27, 2021, at 8:59 PM, Kingsley Hurst <kingsnjan(at)westnet.com.au> wrote:



ï»¿Hello Pete,



Iâ€™m at a loss to understand how the tailplane incidence can be set with a fully flying tailplane.  Is there an explanation please?

Best regards

Your antipodean cousin

Kingsley



Sent from my iPhone



 	  Quote: 	
		  On 27 Dec 2021, at 9:10 pm, Peter Jeffers <pjeffers02(at)gmail.com> wrote:



ï»¿Just remember that during build you are allowed a tolerance of round about 1 degree in the tail plane incidence. This is enough to change your trim settings for any particular situation. It will also explain differences between various aeroplanes.Pete J

On Sun, 26 Dec 2021, 13:53 Bud Yerly, <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)> wrote:



 	  Quote: 	
		        

 

  

 

 Get Outlook for Android

  

 

  From: Bud Yerly <budyerly(at)msn.com (budyerly(at)msn.com)>

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021, 7:35 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: RE: Trim setting question

 

 

      

As Tim said. 

Most do not trim in slow flight or stalls to notice the up trim.  From takeoff to cruise it is all down trim. 

  

Your CG is a bit farther aft so more down trim is needed in some cases as the incidence of the wing is roughly 2.5 degrees nose down trim is needed as speed increasesâ€¦ 

  

Happy Holidays, 

Bud Yerly 

    

From: owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com) <owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com (owner-europa-list-server(at)matronics.com)> On Behalf Of Pete

 Sent: Saturday, December 25, 2021 4:27 PM

 To: europa-list(at)matronics.com (europa-list(at)matronics.com)

 Subject: Re: Trim setting question 

 

 

   

Thx Tim, its good to know im not alone  

  

  

  

That said, the tab is neutral, with the stab in line with the fuse moulding, with the indicator also at neutral - so it appears the stab is not lined up with the fuse moulding  in flight. I find that oddâ€¦. 

  

  

  

Cheers and Merry Christmas! 

  

PeteZ 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On Dec 25, 2021, at 4:21 PM, timward <ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)> wrote:   

ï»¿Hi Pete,  

I have exactly the same issue but can live with it. Altering it is a real gymnastic exercise with space available and spanners! 

  

Cheers, 

  

Tim  

Sent from my iPad  

Tim Ward 

  

12 Waiwetu Street,  

  

Fendalton,  

  

Christchurch, 8052 

  

New Zealand. 

  

ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz (ward.t(at)xtra.co.nz)  

  

021 0640221 

 

  



 

   	  Quote: 	
		   

On 26/12/2021, at 8:49 AM, Pete Zut <peterz(at)zutrasoft.com (peterz(at)zutrasoft.com)> wrote:   

ï»¿   

Curious:  My CG is a reasonable 60.86" yet I find that my trim is generally set quite far down in most phases of flight (and never nose up trim). 

  

  

  

Is this what other folks are seeing? 

  

  

  

Cheers and thx, 

  

PeteZ 

  

C-GNPZ classic 912S

n7188u

Joined: 15 Nov 2015
Posts: 404

Posted: Thu Dec 30, 2021 7:36 am Post subject: Re: Trim setting question

Just to be included in the bunch that confirmed the trim down situation. I always wondered about it but my trim is mostly in two positions: almost full down indication in cruise or right in the center for landing. This airplane is interesting. Is the only one I fly where I turn final and just move the trim to the center in the indicator. That places it at the exact right point for a perfect landing. I donâ€™t bother with continuous adjustments. Itâ€™s fun.

Richard Lamprey

Joined: 15 Jul 2011
Posts: 95
Location: Kenya

Posted: Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:02 am Post subject: Re: Trim setting question

Pete,

I have my Europa in Kenya, Classic monowheel, my base strip is at 6000â€™ a.s.l, usually 25-30C, so hot and high, and I have a Rotax 912UL and fixed pitch warp drive.  So my conditions are probably different from most.  I trim the other way to the way most have discussed here, ie on takeoff I trim nose up â€“ this actually has the bar in the indicator down below the centre, thatâ€™s the way I have it configured.  On takeoff this trim arrangement pins the tailwheel down, and I keep it that way till 40knots, the minimum required to have tail-up rudder authority.  Then, at 40,knots, it requires a gentle but positive push forward to raise the tail.  With about 50knots indicated just ease back on the stick, she comes off in ground effect, then forward push to get the speed up.  Then with positive climb out at 70 knots trim forward, ie nose down to maintain this and away you go.  On landing I have the trim more nose down, so that the flare requires positive back pressure.  My own particular way of flying the monowheel, but maybe this helps.

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