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rjones560xl@gmail.com
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 64
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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 Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 10:52 am Post subject: Chelton replacements |
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The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an installation manual as I don’t have a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different experience.
Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> wrote:
Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is your friend 🙂
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscription?
On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
| Quote: |
LMGTFY… about 30 seconds of googling…
GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
add-ons
https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
manual
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about “Safe Taxi” as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for a few decades into 5,[url=tel:000-6000]000-6000[/url] different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart before they start the decent.
I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from Garmin’s website.
I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone else’s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
I won’t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of anything that Garmin didn’t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the manufacturers. I don’t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
Robert Jones
| Quote: |
On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> (stein(at)steinair.com) wrote:
This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year from either company.
The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of warranty just like everyone else).
Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
Cheers,
Stein
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)>
I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it isn’t that expensive.
If you’re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants to own you forever.
Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won’t. As soon as they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don’t work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don’t even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn’t fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
>
> There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>
>> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s these days?
>> David McNeill
>
>
>
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bcondrey
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 580
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 11:43 am Post subject: Chelton replacements |
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I used to have the link for the GTN install manual but can’t find it at the moment. You can always email G3Xpert(at)garmin.com (G3Xpert(at)garmin.com) . That gets you to the Garmin experimental folks and they will get you what you need (including the GTN installation manual).
Bob
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com> wrote:
The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an installation manual as I don’t have a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different experience.
Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> wrote:
Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is your friend 🙂
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscription?
On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
| Quote: |
LMGTFY… about 30 seconds of googling…
GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
add-ons
https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
manual
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about “Safe Taxi” as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for a few decades into 5,[url=tel:000-6000]000-6000[/url] different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart before they start the decent.
I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from Garmin’s website.
I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone else’s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
I won’t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of anything that Garmin didn’t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the manufacturers. I don’t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
Robert Jones
| Quote: |
On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> (stein(at)steinair.com) wrote:
This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year from either company.
The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of warranty just like everyone else).
Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
Cheers,
Stein
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)>
I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it isn’t that expensive.
If you’re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants to own you forever.
Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won’t. As soon as they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don’t work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don’t even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn’t fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
>
> There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>
>> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s these days?
>> David McNeill
>
>
>
===========
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===========
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
===========
WIKI -
errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
===========
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="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
===========
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m.r.92129(at)gmail.com
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jan 19, 2022 2:09 pm Post subject: Chelton replacements |
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I have three approved devices in my experimental: GTN650Xi, GNX375 and GMA345. I sent a request for the installation manuals to g3Xpert(at)garmin.com (g3Xpert(at)garmin.com) and they came back and wanted the serial numbers and the dealer that I bought from (with whom I had to sign an experimental agreement form for Garmin devices at order time). After verification, they promptly sent me all three installation manuals. Those were also newer than the ones I had found via Google and there were important pin changes, so don’t go that route.
/Martin
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an installation manual as I don’t have a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different experience. Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com (stein(at)steinair.com)> wrote:Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is your friend 🙂
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscription? On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
| Quote: |
LMGTFY… about 30 seconds of googling…
GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
add-ons
https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
manual
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about “Safe Taxi” as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for a few decades into 5,[url=tel:000-6000]000-6000[/url] different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart before they start the decent.
I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from Garmin’s website.
I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone else’s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
I won’t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of anything that Garmin didn’t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the manufacturers. I don’t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
Robert Jones
| Quote: |
On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> (stein(at)steinair.com) wrote:
This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year from either company.
The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of warranty just like everyone else).
Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
Cheers,
Stein
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it isn’t that expensive. If you’re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants to own you forever. Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won’t. As soon as they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don’t work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don’t even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those. If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn’t fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers. Robert Jones > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> > > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission. > >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote: >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s these days? >> David McNeill > > > =========== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution =========== |
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rjones560xl@gmail.com
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 64
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:38 pm Post subject: Chelton replacements |
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I bootlegged one from a place that I can’t mention to protect the guilty that gave me one.
Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 11:48 AM, Bob's Gmail <condreyb(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I used to have the link for the GTN install manual but can’t find it at the moment. You can always email G3Xpert(at)garmin.com (G3Xpert(at)garmin.com) . That gets you to the Garmin experimental folks and they will get you what you need (including the GTN installation manual).
Bob
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 12:57 PM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com> wrote:
The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an installation manual as I don’t have a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different experience.
Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> wrote:
Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is your friend 🙂
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscription?
On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
| Quote: |
LMGTFY… about 30 seconds of googling…
GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
add-ons
https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
manual
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about “Safe Taxi” as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for a few decades into 5,[url=tel:000-6000]000-6000[/url] different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart before they start the decent.
I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from Garmin’s website.
I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone else’s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
I won’t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of anything that Garmin didn’t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the manufacturers. I don’t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
Robert Jones
| Quote: |
On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> (stein(at)steinair.com) wrote:
This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year from either company.
The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of warranty just like everyone else).
Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
Cheers,
Stein
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)>
I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it isn’t that expensive.
If you’re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants to own you forever.
Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won’t. As soon as they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don’t work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don’t even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those.
If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn’t fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers.
Robert Jones
> On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote:
>
> --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)>
>
> There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission.
>
>> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote:
>> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s these days?
>> David McNeill
>
>
>
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eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com
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errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com
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="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution
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rjones560xl@gmail.com
Joined: 29 Jul 2015
Posts: 64
Location: Las Vegas, NV
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| Posted: Thu Jan 20, 2022 7:46 pm Post subject: Chelton replacements |
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I got my GTN650 about 3 years ago. I told the dealer that it was going in an RV10. They never said anything about an agreement that it was going in an experimental. I got the correct manual for a GTN 650 from a source that can not be revealed. However it is probably not current with the software upgrades I just installed. The current wiring is still fine, but there are probably things that could be added that are not covered in my manual.
Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 2:14 PM, Martin Renschler <m.r.92129(at)gmail.com> wrote:
I have three approved devices in my experimental: GTN650Xi, GNX375 and GMA345. I sent a request for the installation manuals to g3Xpert(at)garmin.com (g3Xpert(at)garmin.com) and they came back and wanted the serial numbers and the dealer that I bought from (with whom I had to sign an experimental agreement form for Garmin devices at order time). After verification, they promptly sent me all three installation manuals. Those were also newer than the ones I had found via Google and there were important pin changes, so don’t go that route.
/Martin
| Quote: | On Jan 19, 2022, at 10:52 AM, Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
The first link looks like it is the software update to version 6.72. I followed the directions and hopefully it will update ok when I put it in my 650. The second link is for their PC trainer, not the actual GTN650. The third is for the user manual, not the install manual. I built and wired my panel myself. Garmin did not provide an installation manual with the GTN650. I even called Garmin and they made it clear they were not going to help me get an installation manual as I don’t have a licensed avionics shop. I am still not aware of anywhere Garmin provides an installation manual for anyone who buys a GTN650 unless you are a licensed avionics shop. I obtained one through a process that Garmin would likely not approve of. PLEASE FEEL FREE TO CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG. I am still learning about about my equipment and getting support for it down the road. I can only reference my own experience. Anyone doing business as a licensed shop is going to have a very different experience. Robert Jones
| Quote: | On Jan 18, 2022, at 5:38 PM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com (stein(at)steinair.com)> wrote:Sure: https://fly.garmin.com/fly-garmin/support/pricing. Pick "G3X" and you'll note the $49 option I mentioned, then the $149 option which is $100 incrementally more for the charts/plates/rtc as I previously noted. Google is your friend 🙂
On Tue, Jan 18, 2022 at 1:30 PM Charlie England <ceengland7(at)gmail.com (ceengland7(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: | Can your googlefoo find that $99 annual all charts/terrain/IFR subscription? On 1/18/2022 12:44 PM, Jonathan Beasley wrote:
| Quote: |
LMGTFY… about 30 seconds of googling…
GTN 6XX/7XX - Software Loader Image 006-B1367-3K - Service Bulletin 2143 software version 6.72 https://www8.garmin.com/support/download_details.jsp?id=12531
add-ons
https://www8.garmin.com/support/collection.jsp?product=010-00813-50
manual
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/190-01004-03_M.pdf
Send me the link for the software updates for my GTN650. I spent an hour on the Garmin site and all I could find was a list of the software updates available and a list of the improvements made with each revision. I could not find anywhere to get the actual updates. I put an ECHO ADSB unit in for a friend recently. He had a Garmin 530W in his aircraft. It still had the 3.0 software in it and it needed to be upgraded to the 5.0 and 5.4 software to harvest the GPS position from it for the ECHO. It cost $170.00 to do that from the Garmin dealer on the field. I could have easily done it myself if I had access to the software and the goofy memory cards that Garmin used then.
I only subscribe to the Navigation database for my GTN650 for $299 a year. To get base map and terrain updates it would be $499, another $200. Dynon gives me those for free. For another $169 a year I can get FlyQ with all the instrument procedures charts and the low and high altitude charts and the ability to display them on my Dynon EFIS with geo referencing. The FlyQ charts can now be updated using the Dynon WI-FI so I can just transfer the updates from my IPad to the USB sticks via WI-FI.
Since I have not looked into this for a couple of years, show me how much I would have to pay for base maps, terrain and the IFR navigation data for Garmin if I had a complete Garmin panel. I could care less about “Safe Taxi” as the equivalent is provided by FlyQ with the geo referenced taxi charts on my Dynon EFIS. I flew corporate jets professionally for a few decades into 5,[url=tel:000-6000]000-6000[/url] different airports. I never had any trouble knowing where I was on the airport, however I can see how it would be useful for those that are not accustomed to throughly briefing themselves on the airport taxi chart before they start the decent.
I bought my GTN 650 from a Garmin dealer. It did not come with an installation manual. Perhaps you could point me to where I could download one from Garmin’s website.
I have not had any experience with the Experimental side of Garmin. Do they include installation manuals for everything they sell now? Will they actually answer the phone and emails? Dynon has been doing that for a long time. Have they started to provide wiring diagrams to interface with everyone else’s devices? Dynon was doing that when I put my panel in 2 1/2 years ago.
I won’t pretend that I am current on everything in avionics for light aircraft. However my experience with Garmin customer service has not been very good. My experience with Garmin is that they try to lock you out of anything that Garmin didn’t make. I suppose a lot of manufacturers do that to some degree, but Garmin seems to work the hardest at that. If they are getting better I suspect it is because Dynon started getting certified for a lot of the older aircraft and started eating their lunch. I like seeing Garmin getting kicked where it hurts because it will force them to get better. There is nothing like getting thrashed a bit by a strong competitor to get a company to start serving their customers better. Fierce competition tends to improve customer service and make for competitive pricing from all the manufacturers. I don’t want to see Garmin go away. I would like to see them get better than they were when I bought my GTN 650.
Robert Jones
| Quote: |
On Jan 18, 2022, at 8:31 AM, SteinB <stein(at)steinair.com> (stein(at)steinair.com) wrote:
This is an oft repeated wives tail not based in any reality other than marketing rhetoric or personal bias. We sell a lot of both brands, we love both brands, but the whole "update cost" argument is dubious, because they are almost identical. But for the base map VFR charts which Dynon gives out for free (Garmin charges $49 per year), the plates/charts/sectionals, etc.. are the same additional $99 per year from either company.
The updates for your GTN are actually a good deal CHEAPER when you have Garmin EFISes then when you pair them with other brands (because of bundling), so in that case you're actually upside down on costs.
Avidyne? They also have the same update costs regardless of what you do with an EFIS, so that's a push/wash.
Install manuals? You can get any install manual you want.
Flat rate repairs? They are almost identical in their amount between brands for similar devices (yep, Dynon charges flat rate repair fees out of warranty just like everyone else).
Support? Apparently (and obviously) you haven't dealt directly with the experimental side of the Garmin team - where they will send you exchanges and/or repairs directly without needing to go through a dealer AT ALL. Software updates for the devices (YES, even your GTN) are available for free, directly on the Garmin website where you yourself can go download them.
It's fine to be ignorant of the facts, but it's dubious to make up your alternate reality own based on personal bias or utter falsehoods.
We'll happily sell you either brand, we love both brands, but this whole "one is superior to the other" based on your comments below is just incorrect, not factual and therefore not credible.
Cheers,
Stein
On Mon, Jan 17, 2022 at 9:55 PM Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> wrote:
| Quote: |
--> RV10-List message posted by: Robert Jones <rjones560xl(at)gmail.com (rjones560xl(at)gmail.com)> I have a 3 screen Dynon panel with a Garmin GTN650 for IFR navigation and approaches. I personally would avoid a complete Garmin panel because of the cost of updates. I subscribe to the NAV updates for my 650 because everything else is free on the Dynon EFIS. Dynon got in bed with Seattle Avionics (SkyQ) to display low or high altitude charts on the Dynon EFIS as well as the approach plates. This works well and it isn’t that expensive. If you’re looking at a 100% Garmin panel, look at what the updates to keep everything current are for the next 10 years, and that does not include software updates either. Dynon gives you them free. At Garmin, only the dealer can get access to the software updates, even though anyone could make do the updates if they had access to the files. Basically Garmin wants to own you forever. Dynon will give you tech support. Garmin won’t. As soon as they ask what licensed shop you work for and find out you don’t work for one the conversation is over. 0 support ever except to call a licensed Garmin shop and pay they to fix the problem. You don’t even get an installation manual for the product you bought. Only the dealers get those. If you are going to hire a Garmin dealer to overhaul your panel and fix everything that goes wrong in the future, are fine with the software and NAV database costs then Garmin is fine. I put my whole panel in myself. If you are planning on doing it yourself, Garmin isn’t fine. Please understand that I am not badmouthing the Garmin products. They are fine. I just hate the way they treat their customers. Robert Jones > On Jan 17, 2022, at 3:01 PM, Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> wrote: > > --> RV10-List message posted by: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com (kellym(at)aviating.com)> > > There are 3 main ones. Grt Dynon (as well as it's subsidiary AFS) and Garmin. Depends on your budget and mission. > >> On 1/17/2022 3:42 PM, dlm wrote: >> My DU1s and Crossbow AHRS are no longer supported. I must think of some future replacement for them. What EFISs are being used in the newer 10s these days? >> David McNeill > > > =========== -List" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV10-List =========== FORUMS - eferrer" target="_blank">http://forums.matronics.com =========== WIKI - errer" target="_blank">http://wiki.matronics.com =========== b Site - -Matt Dralle, List Admin. ="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://matronics.com/contribution =========== |
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